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Room clearing drill: pull, throw. Frag self, get mediced, repeat. The issue I have with these courses is: who's training you, and are they training you to play airsoft against rental chavs, or to murderise insurgents up a treat (and then you get rinsed by rental chavs). I've seen a few of these advertised on Failbook, typically promoted as being run by an ex-Delta Special Ranger SAS Force Operator. When I've asked how they've established said person's bona fides to be sure that they're not just some grifting Walt, it's been crickets, blocking, or the claim suddenly alters.

Format shamelessly stolen from @Asomodai. EXTREMELY LENGTHY REVIEW. THIS SITE IS NOW PERMANENTLY CLOSED. Site Name: Echelon Airsoft Contact Details: [email protected] Website Address: https://echelonairsoft.co.uk/ Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/echelonairsoftuk Site Address: 19-20 Thamesgate Shopping Centre, DA11 0AU Hello all! Having now been to Echelon Airsoft's site twice, I figured it was time for this relatively new site (only open since 05/08/21) to have a review on AFUK. I'd heard mixed to negative things about the site in advance, mostly complaints about a lack of player enthusiasm in pushing up. @blobface and I played the Wednesday evening games on 18/08/21 and 29/09/21. The Site: Echelon is a medium-sized indoor CQB site, based in a defunct Debenhams in the presumably also defunct Thamesgate Shopping Centre, literally 30 feet from Gravesend train station. This is exceptionally convenient for London-based players and likely for others too; the station is 20 minutes from St. Pancras approximately twice an hour with off-peak day returns £19.30. There are a number of car parks (Gravesend station, Thamesgate Multistorey and Parrock Street) available for those travelling by car. Providing a size comparison to other CQB sites isn't that easy, but I roughly estimate it at about a third of the size of The Mall. Echelon currently offer multiple games a week; Wednesday evening games, from 18:55-22:00 (safe zone opens at 18:00). These are lights on, but the lights can be turned off if all the players agree. Thursday evening games, also from 18:55-22:00 (safe zone opens at 18:00). These are night games with the lights turned off - expect to encounter some players (though not the majority) with NV. Saturday day games, from 11:00-17:00 (safe zone opens at 10:00). Sunday day games, from 09:30-15:00 (safe zone opens at 08:30). Private games. You'll have to ask about booking those. Pistol and shotgun games. These run less frequently. The site is semi-auto only, with an energy limit of 350FPS (1.14J). It's not specified if that's actually in Joules if you're not using 0.20g BBs, but you should assume that it is; the maximum BB weight is 0.32g. No sniper rifles, DMRs, or box or drum magazines are permitted, except for drum magazines on pistols. Pyro use is limited to BFGs and Mk. Vs, and banned altogether on the ground floor because it trips the alarms of an adjacent bank. The site's in pretty good condition - clean, no rubbish or trip or hanging hazards - barring a few holes knocked in interior walls to improve gameplay. You'll probably want to bring a torch and maybe a tracer unit - there's no natural light and a few dark spaces even in the day games. Good: Location: You're not going to find a more convenient site for London players, or really anyone that can readily access a train. The site's front door is quite literally 30' from Gravesend station's exit. Game Options: The option to play an evening game after work is a much under-appreciated option for players who don't want to sacrifice half their precious weekend. Bluntly, given how much more strenuous CQB is than woodsball you may well find four hours to be just right - my friends and I were definitely tired out by the end of the evening. Night games are rarer than you'd think; regular night games indoors are almost unheard of - these are an excellent opportunity to flex your £2,000 NV, or ruin NV players' investment with a 500,000lm torch you got off AliExpress for £20. Site Layout: At present three floors of the site are largely open - the ground shop floor and warehouse second floor, which are more open with obstacles and cover breaking up the spaces, and the office third floor, which is a tight maze of small rooms and corridors. The floors were played concurrently the first time I played (half the players downstairs, half upstairs) and consecutively the second time; I imagine this depends on the number of players on the day. I don't know if Echelon plan to utilise the first floor in the future, but I wouldn't be surprised if they do, as in the six weeks between our two games smaller areas of the ground floor had already been opened up. Engagement distances are typical of CQB, ranging from bad-breath range on the third floor to up to 10-15m depending on angles elsewhere. There are obstacles to use as cover, the rooms can be accessed in multiple ways, there are little tunnels for sneaking around and the site has been carefully configured to avoid choke points (or at least I didn't experience any the second day) which means minimal time wasted stacked up on doorways. The respawn points are well placed - you won't spend more than a couple of minutes walking there and back. While the weekend games are apparently rammed the weekday ones are pleasantly lightly attended: I'd estimate maybe 30 players our second day, which was Goldilocks levels of just right. The site could easily accommodate 50-60 players if the two zones are played concurrently. Safe Zone: Hosted in the old café, it's right inside the front door. Clean, well lit and opens straight into the ground floor - no hike to the safe zone like you had in the The Mall. Reasonably large (comfortable capacity about 50 players, I should think) with plug sockets, lots of chairs and plenty of horizontal surfaces. Actual plumbed toilets, clean (and seemingly repeatedly cleaned during the day) with soap and paper towels. Safety: Solid without being over the top; the usual rules apply. The safety brief was brief, concise, covered all the salient points and was given in the safe zone where people can actually hear everything. No "humour" barring an off-colour "Allahu Akhbar" suggestion during a later bomb-objective game. All guns are chronographed at the beginning of the day and no loaded guns or dry-firing are permitted in the safe zone. I didn't see marshals doing random spot checks or checking regulators (there are more than the usual number of HPA guns), but I have no doubt if concerns were raised they'd be willing to do so, because... Marshalling: Impeccable. The marshalls were polite, patrolled the site, and including player marshals were available in abundance. They monitored the team balance and didn't hesitate to rebalance if things were uneven. There is a three-strikes rule but zero tolerance for bullshittery: the marshals told us that by the end of our second day 67 players had been banned over the life of the site, which averages out to about two per game day. I'm sure the bans are weeding out the crap players; I think a considerable number of players were banned on our first day and one on our second. Other players might find this alarming - I find it reassuring. This leads directly to... Playerbase: On our second day the players were uniformly excellent - perhaps the best I've ever played with. Aggressive in pushing up, called their hits, minimal overshooting and very, very little bitching even when players had copped a couple of bleeding welts. I didn't have a single negative interaction in the entire day. This was an improvement over the first day, where the players were generally good but marred by a couple of Teflon terminators. This is not a milsim site and you're not going to encounter much in the way of multiglam geardos (night game possibly excepted), but you will encounter a few speedsofters, although of the nice kind rather than the knee-slide overshooting SpeedQB kind (of which I think at least five got banned during our first day and won't be missed). Turnaround Time: You'll get 5-10 minutes in the safe zone between games to reload, no more, and certainly no finding half your team standing around chatting while the rest of you are getting absolutely mullered in-game. Average: Value: £25.00 for an evening game (£50.00 including rental equipment) and £35.00 for a day game (£60.00 including rental equipment) will seem steep to players used to paying £25.00 for woodsball and a free lunch. However, it would be deeply unfair not to stress the excellent value this represents compared to other urban or CQB sites, especially given that London players won't need to wake up at the crack of dawn or return in the dead of night to attend. The prices are comparable to the other (now-defunct) London sites, which were much smaller and in much worse condition. Site Shop: Limited to what you'll need on the day; BBs, propellant, pyro, cold drinks and snacks, and complimentary battery charging. No hot food, no guns that I could see. Card payments are accepted without issue, even for low-value transactions. While they don't seem to have any guns to sell you... UKARA Membership: Echelon are UKARA-registered and able to provide you with a UKARA-registered defence. Game Modes: These aren't hugely innovative (almost all find object, bring it to place, keep it there) but frankly they work well. There's not really any need to create complex objectives for players to misunderstand, and not really the room for them anyway. What you get is a simple, coherent team objective which leads to you all getting to shoot a lot of people; what more could you ask for? Bad: I really struggled to think of a downside that personally affected me (and was the site's fault, unlike my temperamental AUG) but I am aware of a couple of teething issues that you should probably be aware of. Cancellation Communication: I saw on Facebook that a few weeks ago some players had turned up to find the site not open for business; the game had been cancelled owing to a lack of bookings. You should definitely book if you intend to play to help the site gauge whether it's worth running the game day, and so they can communicate to you if the game day is not going to happen. Shop Issue: I also saw on Facebook that either on the first game day, or within the first couple of game days, there had been a major spat between the third party engaged to run the shop and the site management. That lead to the shop packing up halfway through the day and taking its rental equipment home with them. I expect this won't be repeated but it does speak to a certain lack of organisation. Conclusion: I think the second day might have been one of the best day's (well, evening's) airsoft I've ever played. As more of the site opens up and any remaining bad eggs are weeded out I expect the site and play to improve even further. I'd wholeheartedly recommend Echelon to anyone that wants to play some close-quarters CQB and I'll certainly be back. Bullpup Watch: My AUG, I think that was about it sadly. On the first day there was an AEG AUG too. Other Site Reviews CAMO CQB Skirmish Arena (Essex) Invicta Battlefield Black Site (Kent)

In that context, I've seen some anecdotal suggestions that some big boots can shift damage from the ankle up to more serious knee injuries. However, we're talking rigid MX and skiing boots, and big offs and oofs, I don't think that generally applies to airsoft unless you're jumping into trenches or off of castles and such. And at that point you want parachute ankle braces anyway, and note that study didn't find any evidence of shifting the damage. "Be like unto the ninja" is a fair point (fitness thread ahoy), but accidents happen, and I consider ankle support to be fairly effective PPE for a likely injury. It is an interesting subject because while it might seem like it's just common sense (like wearing seven masks) that ankle support reduces ankle injuries, but there does appear to be a paucity of detailed or controlled studies. I won't make the sophomoric argument that "The military wouldn't use them if they didn't work!" because it's quite possible that they've never actually done the studies themselves.

All good points and everybody's mileage will vary, but then I was the kind of biker that puts their leathers on to nip out for a pint of milk so... (I've also properly torn the ligaments in my ankle before so I have NO desire to repeat that particular slice of shit pie)

This sort of implies that you think that i've never had an ankle injury - and you'd be right haha. But that is irrelevant i suppose. . Lucky may be true. Insanely strong I'm not so sure but I am firmly of the..opinion (!!) that having strong muscles, ligaments, bones, as well as the mobility for proper range of motion of the ankle is very, very important. I'm not a "low cut" evangelist, I have just as many high top boots as I do low cut shoes. I basically think 1) there may not be the perfect tool for the job, but there is the best choice of tool for the job 2) everything is a compromise 3) pick your poison. For a day skirmish I do, for myself, do not see the need for a 8 inch tall boot. I would rather be quicker on my feet, with better range of motion bla bla bla. For longer periods climbing steep hills possibly with a rucksack/bergan then yes i would wear a higher top boot but tbh the more i do this sort of the stuff the more i think they are overrated. If you can be bothered to read the scientific literature on this subject (i am not a scientist) you will find this subject is hardly black and white. but thats for another day. For the record: I am not recommending white trainers. that just isnt tactical! I would recommend anyone with a preexisting injury (or not) to absolutely wear whatever support they feel they need Sites can dictate what people wear as i guess they have the insurance to worry about. there's no beef from me there. If you are worried about injuries please don't rely big boots by themselves strength, balance, mobility are really important too, probably more important. This isn't for being a turbo steroid tier 1 operator, just sensible life advice. its even on the nhs website!

Fwiw, I had a pair of scope rings that were ordered late June and sat in China until early September when they finally left and were delivered a few days after. Could just be some sellers are crap. I've found that to be unusual though.

These are just my opinions and should not be taken as a statement of fact: I can't really recommended any boots. I used merrel for years, then i had 2 pairs break at the same place within a year. I moved to salomon and used the same pair for 5.5 years (yes i counted). They failed (fair play) and i replaced them with the "speedcross" trail running shoe, which lasted 6 months before delaminating. I since replaced them with the "crosshike" hiking boot, with goretex lining, but haven't used them enough to really comment. The salomon warranty was pretty quick and fairly generous - a voucher worth £80 more than i paid. I still use the running shoes but i was / am dissapointed Massive leather boots are for professional soldiers or in the event of total social breakdown, not airsofting, imo. I also think ankle support is massively overrated and sites insistence on using them has much more to do with a sense of aesthetic and not wanting "white trainers" then it is h&s... controversial!!!!! When i do get wet feet most of the time its not cause i stepped in a puddle, its cause i've been walking through long wet grass. gaiters are useful for this. For a winter airsoft boot where at most you'll be wearing them for no more than 36 hours, i would (and did) go with goretex lining. but for extended stuff, i think a non-goretex lined boot with waterproof socks are best Ultimately i see the point of all this stuff as not getting your feet wet, rather then merely not letting water in. If you get all sweaty, your feet will get wet. as a rough rule of thumb (toe?) i advise not wearing waterproof socks till your boot is already wet. wear them till they dry out enough to replace them with a normal sock. I get very, very sweaty so bear this in mind There's wearing the right clothes for the weather, but really its wearing the right clothes to match the weather and the activity. For a day skirmish i wear pretty much the same stuff year round, I prefer being cold and wet to being really hot as skirmishing / anything even barely resembling physical activity warms me up, it doesn't cool me down. Same with running. I adhere to the "be bold, start cold" school of thought but i appreciate that having cold hands and toes is uniquely awful. i always, always have spare clothes, socks and shoes for the drive home. (i also never, ever, ever wear camo outside of a site. i am very body positive so have no issues getting changed in a car park)

My FPS varies by more than that and I don't get flyers like you seem to!

Waterproof socks. I've just been out cycling in lashing rain wearing trainers, and my feet at the only parts still dry. eBay for "SealSkinz", "Goretex socks" and similar.

it's a steep learning curve. if it's any consolation, it took about half a dozen stripped pistons/gears and 2 nearly killed batteries before i learned the 40k was not the way.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149741 20 companies account for more than 50% - yet im the one stuck with a paper straw that folds over after 20 minutes Anyway, what were we talking about?

Got round to getting some pictures of the front handguards. First off, a comparative shot of the two different mounting mechanisms. You can see that the TM (left) mounts slightly differently and is also lower than the RS grip, to allow more battery space. Additionally a top down shot of the TM and then RS grip shows that in the area behind the attachment hook, the TM version cuts away almost immediately whereas the RS gradually tapers down - again meaning the TM has more battery room. Finally, you can see the difference in how the TM and RS grips look. There's not a huge amount in it, but note that the RS rides up a bit at the rear end (see how the rear corner almost touches the rail mount on the RS, but has a defined gap on the TM) and also you can again see that the RS grip is shorter by comparing where it sits against the magwell.

Well, the simplest way to git gud at room clearing is to John Wick in while shouting "You missed, you missed, I didn't feel it, gun hit, didn't feel it, missed." My very mild concern about actually paying for training to play pretend soldiers with toys is that it might - might, not saying that it does - indicate a predilection for winning the game rather than playing the game. I'm thinking of a couple of players I've met who took it all far too seriously, and ended up flouncing or being kicked out of the hobby. All that said, I would be interested in doing such a training day, if only to see how well it really works in airsoft versus fearless rentals and pre-firing speedy bois.

Appreciate the effort to type that, nice review. It's on my list of new sites to visit, sooner rather than later as I suspect it won't be around for many years.

Haha, I didn’t even go this weekend. Just posted that for my own entertainment to see who got it

In the true words of Ice Cube the warrior poet himself.

Took my mws and a back up. MWS ran perfectly, I didn’t even have to use my AK. I gotta say it was a good day.

The newer issue British army surplus boots are very light for what they provide. There's a reason a new pair of altbergs costs north of £150, hence my suggestion for surplus and going to physically look at them, you can sometimes stumble on near new or even boxed boots for surplus prices. Tell that to my friend who rolled his ankle on his first game before buying boots with proper ankle support. I get that some people prefer trainers, and if you're on a flat CQB site I totally get that, but as a majority of airsoft sites seems to be in vaguely well kept woodland, boots with proper ankle support will save you from a lot of pain and limping, or worse, should you take a misstep on a root or step into a rabbit hole.

You may just be lucky/have insanely strong ankles but trust me, ankle support is NOT overrated. The type of ankle support offered by most walking boots however...ehhhh... A properly laced, 8" tall boot WILL make a difference to how well your ankles survive if you happen to turn your foot in a rabbit hole (of course, if you're not playing outdoors it's less likely but still).

When you're going to the toilet for the first time after a week eating ration packs And when you're done

Printed will do fine with HPA, I'd argue better than green as the impact would be a lot more constant and the output more consistent. I have been running a Mi3D build virtually exclusively since March and that thing has had well over 10K through it and hasn't missed a beat. I run 80psi though and like you have put a 5.1 length barrel in, I make a very nice 1.01J with a .25 which is fine for indoors. The idea of having a dedicated slide for for different purposes is very logical but as you've mentioned, I have almost more capa's than days of the week but I find myself gravitating towards 1 more than any of the others. You'd likely find yourself just "not being bothered" swapping about as once you find "the one" you'll stick with it. Wow! I've purposefully not been hounding him as I know he's had issues but if they're in the UK that's a huge advantage. I was tempted to stick an order in to Rainbow and see if the VIP arrived before the BC. I may just drop Kyle a message now and see what these other slides are as well..... Cheers for the heads up lol.

Lol that’s actually a good idea

I use a pair of goretex boot liners which have never let me down. I've managed to stand in an 8 inch deep stream for over a minute and my feet stayed warm and dry, despite the boots themselves leaking like a sieve

Can you afford/get hold of enough pyro to do it properly? If not do it speedsoft style as the outcome will be more or less the same as it’s who can shoot faster and at least you will be a moving target. https://ifunny.co/tags/speedsoft At the last cqb based venue I played at to use reusable pyro you had to reach your arm into the room and drop it because apparently if you post it under arm my trmr can bounce up and hit someone in the face!!!! Cue getting your arm shot by anyone with a quick response and the thing wouldn’t go off half the time. I love crazy safety rules in a game where you are actively trying to shoot people at close range. In the face!!!!!

I’ve never really had a problem with patches as such, but this may be due to me using ODST patches from the Halo games, which no one really understands anyway lol

A more suspicious person would wonder at a new account bigging up a retailer as their first post. Not me though, I trust everything that I read online without question.

Kyle told me about another pretty sweet 4.3 slide that’s on the way. I’ve got a photo and the knowledge that HCH have ten on the way. It’s STi like the Costa VIP but much prettier imho Alternatively, HCH’s stock of Battlecat 4.3 are actually in the UK now (As soon as customs clear Kyles parcel)

Looks like it https://www.fx-jgworks.com/airsoft/g36-airsoft-gun/

I’ve always been a believer in that if someone is offering any kind of military based training course that the public can attend and it doesn’t cost hundred pounds(training with someone who has time served experience isn’t cheap no matter what field it’s in)then there’s a VERY good chance the person running it is either a walt or bloater . I’ve family and friends who’ve spent yrs working for big international security companies that are also involved in training others and I’m pretty sure none of the ‘bonafide’ companies would have anything to do with training Joe public AND they charged thousands for their courses . What it comes down too is the guys who could train you do this properly from their own personal experience are already getting payed mega bucks to do it for a big company somewhere , they don’t need to run Mickey Mouse courses that anyone can attend for a couple of quid . As lots have said just YouTube the crap out of it and I’m sure you’ll substantially up your game just by doing that . 👍

Yeah, its recommended to run on 11.1 its an arp 556

I like how you put the frag self, get mediced, repeat real small 😂😂 I do have a 9mm oshiboom grenade which works wonders and I already do the pieing on doorways etc but I just love even if not used completely in Airsoft learning and trying to implement a more realistic play style, I just have more fun that way 😅😂 but aye I do agree that there’s a lot of those kinda people on Facebook hence asking on the forum to try avoid them all 😂 That’s the thing mate, if all else fails it’ll be a good craic and a good laugh 😁😂

Having a MOSFET isn't the deciding factor. If the manufacturer says it can run on 11.1 then its fine.

Yes, he's ex-military but that doesn't mean he's a CQB expert. Plus it's more of the same "CHEETER EXPOSED!!!!!" "EX SQUADDIE DESTROYS AT AIRSOFT" clickbait bullshit. Personally, I'd recommend this guy https://www.youtube.com/user/rwiley1690 (active duty SWAT officer that also plays airsoft) or these guys

As an alternative, look at the Gunman Cold War games, much more organised leadership wise, especially the East German side. And the kit is all provided.

I seem to recall Legion Airsoft have done some training events in the past but I'm not seeing any more scheduled. UFPro on YouTube have some pretty decent videos too

Couple of things to consider - get a better ventilated design of helmet - Team Wendy, Air Frame etc all vent better than a FAST helmet (I have all three styles) if you're dead set on putting fans in, take a look at what the cosplay guys do (it's pretty common in Stormtrooper helmets) https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/36631-how-to-diy-usb-helmet-fans-no-more-9v-or-aas/ think about things like where your battery will go (I'd suggest using an NVG battery holder on the back) make sure the helmet ventilates well in the first place - the cheap Emerson helmets come with a solid polystyrene liner, whereas the FMA ones come with individual pads for example

Add in a strong anti-gun sentiment in the UK, Eco-Nazis wanting to ban everything (plastic BBs? Its a wonder the feckers from XR haven't started chaining themselves up at airsoft sites yet), a general suspicion of anything military, clothing etc and sites going out of business its all against the sport. That said, seeing more and more newbies like myself taking it up this past year which is very encouraging.

That would be great buddy. So spent the day doing a second susat and LSW.

Update on the L22. Finally sourced a real HK foregrip. Plus after some help from a member on here, have designed and made some correct Sa80 and susat QR code stickers.

I imagine the amp draw with 13:1 and the ASG 40K is super high, if you have a meter, stick it on and see what numbers you're getting

Got myself an E&L AK74N, bloody love it and can’t wait to use it:

isn't this a thread for jokes not well established facts?

Collecting for quite a while now, still happy as a child, when I get my hands on something rare - in this case, the happyness is accompanied by something like awe, as it doesn't get much rarer than this Tanaka Colt SAA Casyopea (which already is rare as hell in and of itself, as these were banned in Japan together with their Casyopea counterpart, the S&W M500) with a Prime CNC Brass Kit (possibly the only brass kit for Casyopea in existence, either a mod of a Pegasus brass kit, or Prime has begun to build one of these, but stopped when the Casyopeas were banned in Japan). The loading breach is black, as are the hammer and the trigger. Might be, that Prime stopped production midway... or maybe a modder lost interest to go full monty... So this might be a real one-off, in this configuration possibly the only one of its kind. Build quality is extremely high, of course, and it has a very nice, authentic weight of 1.030g. The Casyopea shells are a lot of fun. Really pretty enthusiastic about this one 😃