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its a system that can get rather complicated. from a purely physics perspective (ie ignoring the gun), a bb with X energy, given the correct amount of backspin for its weight, will go further the heavier it is, which is what the spreadsheet @SSPKali linked to is all about. there's a site online which i forget the name of goes much much much further down the rabbit hole. however that isn't strictly the whole argument if you apply it to an aeg and there are scenarios where other factors start to drift in. the crucial thing is assuming that the energy is constant and backspin is magically acheived without affecting energy. the first issue is the amount of backspin, the energy, and how this is linked. to take a simplistic example lets say a gun can spin a 0.2g correctly and fires a perfect 1J with the hop set to 25% on. we swap out to 0.25g we need to set the hop to 35% on, the extra resistance from the hop nub being further in drops the energy to 0.8j then we try 0.3g, with the hop set to 60% on, the energy then drops to 0.6j try it with 0.4g and there's so much resistance it won't even fire. how much the energy drops in order to spin a given ammo weight is dependent on hop design, hence why the likes of maple leaf rubbers, s hops, r hops etc are a thing, they're trying to give the bb more spin whilst taking less energy to do so, usually through a larger but longer contact patch, softer grippier compounds etc. what's fun is i've even seen dual "sweet spots", where if you start from zero and dial in the hop you'll meet that point of perfect hop, but keep going and you can do it a second time where the over-hop and energy drop converge again to lift the round properly, of course the lower energy results in much lower range. the next hurdle is volume, a heavier bb is going to spend longer in the barrel and have higher back pressure, so every source of air leak (including the gap around the bb in the barrel) is going to leak more air, kinda like the reverse of joule creep (where more time spent in the barrel means picking up more energy in systems that are pressure fed and not volume limited). this is dependent on a lot of factors but assuming "perfect" air seal both having a longer barrel or wider bore will add to this issue whereas a shorter barrel and tighter bore will do the reverse. this is more relevant for dmr platforms where folk both have long barrels and want to use heavy ammo in a system with a fixed maximum volume (and hence why you tend not to short-stroke dmr length guns). so a gun that's built properly (by design or chance) to lob 0.25's may well be worse if you move to 0.3's, but that doesn't mean a gun built properly to lob 0.4's isn't going to be better. and that's before we start talking about the difference between absolute range (ie how far the bb is capable of going) and effective range (ie how far you can aim, fire and hit a target). when it comes to the latter even things like optics, the size/weight of the gun, trigger response, and skill of the shooter start playing serious factors. for example i stopped running the super heavies in pistols not because the range was any better on the lighter ammo but because it was still better than my capability to shoot with a handgun and you weren't changing bulged nozzles every other magazine. same as how it's pointless running heavy ammo in cqb because accuracy/range is not the deciding factor for getting hits. problem is that's focusing on only part of the system, bb weight absolutely is a factor alongside airseal (read: fps consistency), volume and energy. to take an automotive example, you could fit the engine from an f1 car in a vw golf and put lewis hamilton behind the wheel, but he won't be winning the championship, hell even if you put a more powerful engine in he still won't win because the rest of the system isn't good enough to take advantage of the strongest element. not just the hop. tm's "magic" isn't just one thing being excellent (as much as we like to joke about the tm hop fairies), it's everything being a good match for everything else in a world where one part not properly fitting another is the norm. permitting myself a little "luke" moment; tm's are very well put together for the energy they do but it is somewhat curious how whilst the ~0.8j of a tm is commonly reported to outrange everything, many recoil owners feel the need to crack open their pews and fill them with the contents of the prometheus catalogue, likewise the mighty mk23 with its legendary range gets the maple leaf+hadron treatment, the vsr gets filled with PDI, the MWS gets filled with whatever the hell mws people fill their guns with etc.

OK anyone want to fess up about throwing @MiK @GenuineGerman @Skarainto the airsoft black hole? And on a side note...What kit would you throw in to one?? I'll kick it of with P90>> ⚫ Regards

so premise of this is what things in airsoft do you not "get", and why? i'll start off with a couple- patches- i really don't get it, especially people who seem to collect them and get properly excited when they see a new patch. doubly so when you see people using the patches you get with bits of kit like airsoft innovations or gate products or from sites. painting desert camo- i'm not a fan of painting stuff in general, but i can get why folk would want to paint camo to make a gun more concealable, or painting crazy designs as an artistic expression, but painting desert camo just confuses me because you're not really getting any artistic benefit (no more than painting it an appropriate woodland camo) but you are making the gun stand out. note i'm not counting people doing it as part of a specific impression loadout, that's understandable. the kriss vector- not the gun in general or why people would use it, but why they're all so unreasonably heavy, seriously are they making those things out of depleted uranium or something? revolvers- or more correctly how anyone can fire one and not be immediately dissapointed......

That was an interesting video as regards the Bio BBs. There seemed to be a broad selection that was decent, a few that were worse and a handful that were better. There certainly seemed to be less performance variation than the non bio equivalents video. Possible fewer OEMs actually cranking out the Bios or a degree of consolidation in the firms producing the ammo? Was intrigued by how well the Ares BBs did as recall a thread where a user had some dodgy specimens among his bag. What I find complicates it further is both different brands and their weight performance. Had some companies where the lighter (0.25 & 0.28) ammo performed very well. Went up to their 0.30g offering and had jams and fliers galore. Have settled on G&G 0.28g BBs for support guns. Still trialing different stuff for rifles.

yes i can see your point. as i mentioned everything is a trade off, and reliability is a factor that i personally rarely consider. but you make a good point that by not pursuing the peak of performance you're gaining longevity. ultimately it's a case of how happy a person is with that balance, for example my view is i'd rather have the performance and accept the higher maintenance that entails, at least within reasonable limits (eg how i mentioned bulged nozzles in pistols). absolutely, for example with my playstyle i always had trouble with intermediate range- too far to hip fire and too close to take your time, that kind of snap shooting is where i tend to fail miserably. not familiar with PBR as a term (i'm guessing it's not "patrol boat river" ) but going by the context of it meaning something like "practical battle range" i'd say it's very personal in terms of what a given person is happy with. my viewpoint is the better the gun shoots, the more opportunities it opens up, eg when you only have a foot poking out of cover, or the other guy is shooting through a small window, plus it's less infuriating to miss from your own lack of marksmanship than the hardware failing you. there are folk who scoff at the notion of trying to go down the route of maximizing range arguing along the lines of "just get closer", and that has it's own logic. but you bring what your good at to this game and every bit of pew performance i can leverage means i can get away with not having to run quite as fast or hide quite as well, which for someone as pathologically lazy as me is exactly the ticket. yep, and if you're going to the extremes then that can impose its own limitations, you end up having to decide which aspect of performance is more important to you. it's like choosing a mk23 over [generic gbb pistol], you're trading the feel of the gbb and snappier response for reliability, precision & silence. or choosing to hpa- you're trading the hatred of your peers for bb lobbing performance or choosing gbbr- you're trading performance for feel. none of these choices are inherently wrong, and it's a good thing that we have such variety to choose what we want to prioritize.

Just in case anyone wondered what had happened to me. I’m not dead. I was enticed over to the KJ Owners discord where Arron of Rogueworx resides. Ive picked up some more pretty awesome bits for this particular gun. Should be able to get some photos later. Rogueworx are having a big restock in late Oct/early Nov for anyone interested in building a tricked out KC02 https://www.rogueworx.com Hail Saustrich

I expect the 045 will have a production run at some point if it's still listed. When it does I'll buy two. No way I'll be an unpaid R&D man for a new range of E&Ls or anything else. I'm sure that these days, manufacturers use warranty claims as design feedback.

Watch this. The team behind it put science next to airsoft and give you facts about this stuff. They even designed a replicable grading system for testing rifles.

Hi all I recently played a game at a different site from my normal one. all my guns were firing way under the FPS. but now I’ve been told that they were all too hot due to the joules. At that site the max J for a rif that has full auto is 1.14J ( uk law is 1.3) The site told me this is due to their insurance. but in the five years I’ve been playing Airsoft I never have been to a site that request you to measure in Joules. The law came out in 2017 and has taken them till 2021 to enforce it on this site. so my question is how does everyone feel about this and is everyone finding this problem across the UK? https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/610380/2017_04_19_-_PCA2017_firearms_provisions_-_HO_Circular_-_final.pdf

you know fps is a measurement of velocity not energy right? when we use the term fps in airsoft what's actually meant is fps on a 0.2g bb and that latter part is what makes it a convoluted way of stating energy, who's SI unit is joules...... the reason velocity is the thing people use is because that's what chronographs measure/display, and the reason it's feet per second rather than metres per second is the same (read: dumb) reasons we buy petrol in litres, milk in pints, sugar in kilos and steak in oz because the uk is stuck in measurement system purgatory.

Reality is a harsh mistress. The only "problem" here is that there are still sites out there who are chronoing like it's 1999. Can you please tell us which sites didn't spot that your toys were shooting hot, so that I can make a note to avoid them?

Metal 3d printin normally works by adding a thin layer of metal powder then using a laser to melt it then adding another layer and so on and so on and then digging the finished pieces out of the powder. There are some direct extrusion metal machines but they tend to be less detailed.

Did you buy it new?if so then take it back.Could be motor connections.

check the wiring were the stock is conected to the body there are two conectors that can come apart

i got a cm16raider you wont be disapointed

My favourite is people who wear black/MC black. They seem to think it makes them invisible

sadly the ASG B&T Rotex silencer doesn't fit over the DE flash hider. Just means I need to swap flash hiders over whenever I want to run tracer inside the silencer.

Our local site tests Joules using your own BBs . Seems sensible to me , while joule creep isn't too much of an issue with AEGs it very much is with snipers and GBBRs . 1.13 j seems to be a relativly standard level for most sites since it equates to the usual 350 fps on .20s . I think more sites are becoming aware of the issues surrounding heavy BBs in some platforms now and are quite rightly measuring joules to make sure that they and you are complying with the law, by setting a limit below 1.3 j they are alowing some headroom for both. Will people still try to cheat chrono ? yes , some people will but it is a better way to check outputs.

see the aliexpress link above

This is not a which BB am best0r thread. I have googled and I have failed to find an answer. Has anyone here done or have a link to a decent test of a normal 1.1 joule rifle, (so not DMR or Sniper power) test of ammo weights to see which actually does get the best range? ( carrying an acceptable hit accuracy ) Current lore is that 0.32 in an AEG am best0r Other Angry techs say its 0.28's Today someone swore to me that he has consistently out ranged others with 0.25s I have all the hardware to test but no where to do it. So hoping someone else has Shibby

From what I vaguely recall was about three or four in Taiwan. Something like BLS/G&G/others like Airsoft surgeon. With regards ASG think they are manufactured in the East and then "processed" in Denmark.

That would be me. Some bad BBs and the ones that looked ok didn't seem like anything special (the ones I looked at were the 0.25g version though while the ones tested in the video were 0.28g): https://airsoft-forums.uk/topic/48745-what-bio-bbs-should-i-be-buying/?do=findComment&comment=410419 I had a similar experience with the "6mm Ammo" BBs - I bought some in .30g after seeing their performance in the same video (they tested .28g but those were out of stock) and found a bunch with significant defects in the pack I received, although in that case they otherwise do seem to be above average. I also bought a pack of the tracers in .30g but all of those were fine. Could easily be a case of bad luck & getting some from a dodgy batch... or maybe the OEMs have been cutting corners somewhere to increase profits & hoping that noone notices. It's also possible that people just aren't looking at them closely enough to notice if there only a few dodgy ones in a pack, and in a bag containing 3000+ BBs it's easy to see how maybe a dozen or so messed up BBs might go unnoticed if you're not specifically looking for them in every pack you open. I've seen this with some of the bio BBs I've looked at, e.g. the Nuprol .20s were really soft but the .25s were ok; the Geoffs .28g tracer BBs I looked at were significantly out of spec (undersized) but the .28g regular versions and both .30g versions I looked at were fine... it likely varies from batch to batch, who the OEM is, how the material composition differs between each weight etc.

yep, quality is a very big factor. not just in terms of dimensional/finish consistency but also weight consistency. which is yet another factor of how gun X might shoot better on 0.28g rather than 0.32g even if both bb's are from the same brand, as they're likely at least different production lines if not entirely different oem's. and how adaptable a gun is to being fed bad food is another factor that can trade with out and out performance. funny really how a bunch of relatively simple systems can get insanely complex when they're put together.

tbh i'd have rather they just had an ammo limit, eg you get 500 rounds for the day but how you use them is up to you. can put them all in one hicap or spread it out over a bunch of low-caps and refill mid-game but you still only get 500 rounds. means you're not forcing folk to buy mags of any given config. then just raise the ammo limit for boxfed guns based on weight- heavier your gun is the more ammo you're allowed so if you've got a drumfed arp you only get 500 rounds like everyone else but if you're lugging a pkp then you can carry ten times that. but ofc that's not that easily enforceable (folk will just hide bags of extra bb's) and it'll all fall apart after the first few hours when folk have emptied their allowance and are complaining that they can't shoot any more.

I dub thee: The WWSD - 'What Would Speedbird Do' Blaster. If you know, you know. The aim was a super light weight gun for all-round use. It's an unused ICS Sportline I have knocking about (hence shit camo job). It was a light weight plastic gun anyway, but had a wobbly/bendy front end that I was never happy with. So - 50mm Carbon tube hand guard. 3D printed barrel nut, hand guard end cap and barrel stub. ICS Stubby stock. No Outer barrel - the inner barrel is supported by the hand guard end cap. I replaced the RIS receiver rail with a 3D Printed blanking plate. I also added a flared magwell, 3D printed from a thingiverse file that I modded to better fit. No sights (never use 'em anyway - hi-cap 'spray and pray' for the win). It's my 40th Birthday in a couple weeks. Missus is buying me a nice Sparmax airbrush/compressor set, so the receiver will get some kind of 'interesting' paint job. I know, haters gonna hate. But I like it, and that's all that matters to me...😉

My thoughts exactly, it’s not an exact science. The Nuprols which buggered up my MWS and got chopped in my recoils were 0.28’s. Yet i contacted Eagle6 and KoA and they swear by Nuprol 0.30’s saying they’ve never had issues with them The only conclusion is either I had a dodgy batch or the 0.28g weight just has issues.🤷🏻‍♂️ I concur with G&G 0.28’s. They are damn good and use them in everything except in the 417. Incidentally, I have a few packs of 0.3 G&G too but they are grey in colour. No one can see those coming 😂. I use them exclusively in the PTW although it can lift up to 0.4 easy but then it gets expensive 😂

Perhaps not the most scientastic or replicable, but data points.

That's another reason why I almost exclusively buy second hand. The two rifs I have sold on from second hand I lost almost no money on.

Well this is am interesting topic which comes up time and time again as there isn't a definitive answer... My view is simple... A BB is like a box of chocolates... You won't know how it will perform until you get it out of the box and try it in your pew pew. Yes there are other factors too such as the set up of your pew pew or even the atmospheric conditions that will have a material affect either positive or negative. I have tried many different brands of BB and I've now settled for two only.. G&G and Geoffs... I won't touch Nuprols with a barge pole coz in my opinion they smash too easily especially with the MWS (just don't get me started on that topic), they caused feeding issues in my NGRS mags even had chopped BB's coming out of my recoils and when I tried them in my PTW what an absolute joke they were. Interestingly, I've heard some good remarks about the Ares Amoeba Diamond Precision BB's but haven't tried them. On the topic of upgraded recoils......believe it or not I still have one stock, untouched by mortal hands, MK18 sat in it's box. I have deliberately left it that way for when I play any indoor games (which I still have't yet) but also to remind myself how good a stock TM is. However, and here comes the 'BUT' given an option I will always go out with my 'Scottish' TM as it's just stupidly good out in the field...Yes it's upgraded to the hilt and yes it's accuracy and groupings are pretty good and yes the BB hit's its target approx 70fps faster than my stock TM. Now, the question is...... will a stock TM perform just as good at say average engagement distances of 40m to 50m? Yes no doubt. But, when you start acquiring targets over 60m then that's when the upgrades seem to be effective. My 417 is another example... it's tuned to 450fps/R-Hop and it's internals have again been ripped out... There is nothing TM at all inside that gearbox. However, it's range and groupings accuracy is astounding. Stick a 0.2g BB in for a laugh and you will not even see it leave the barrel. Stick a 0.4g Geoffs and you can just see the bb in flight... I do know one thing though at some point down the line that Prommy piston will probably fail due to the extreme battering it's getting.... that's just a trade off as far as I am concerned..

It's exactly the same, and the postage is £6.50 versus his £8. https://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/tokyo-marui-glk-g34-gbb-pistol Sadly, they're out of sto- no, wait, they have 13 of them. Well, he knows what it's worth, all day long, mate. No chancer's going to mug him off, he wasn't born yesterday. It does bother me a little that folk with that level of mentation are on site with us. Although I rather suspect that doesn't apply here.

Yup lots and lots do do this but I’ve always been of the mind this is a classic example of ‘ The ‘Emperors new clothes’ or “just because you can doesn’t mean you should ?” yes it can make your TM fire a bit faster , further and even a bit more accurate BUT the moment you start messing about with a TM’s internals you’ve started a countdown time to it imploding on you(or it’s next owner) as you said your self TM’s are made to very fine tolerances , which are tailored exactly to the Japanese market and their FPS limit . I have both a stock socom that’s over 13yrs old and a 74su that’s 12’ish and both working fine(mag shut off can be very temperamental but that’s all) , I’m sorry but no way will I believe any ‘upgraded’ ones will still be running 13yrs after they where built ! Plus (to me anyway) if you gut it and replace all the TM internals with all singing and all dancing Prometheus parts then it’s not really a TM Recoil anymore so why buy one in the first place ? 😳

Availability, though. We keep hoping for restocks, but absent ordering from TaiwanGun via PatrolBase, they're thin on the ground at the moment.

The VFC? Most will not include a way to downgrade the fps, so an npas or fg-airsoft lfs disc can be used.

Well yeah, lets all drill holes in the polycarb till its 80% not there and call it protection Just get a Warq, end of all your fogging and protection worries

Yep, here it is Grab a beverage and settle down for a long read!

It's easy to mod the standard shells to x3 shot and still be a skirmishable even if you had the 4" barrel. The shells can take up to x6 with a bit more work but I had to mod the gun to output more gas to push x6 bbs with a 2.5" barrel, not sure how 4"would go. It also has a hop unlike many co2 revolvers. Shoots x6 out 20m or so with about a 3ft spread at 10m. I prefer it to carrying a breacher.

I tried to buy this and politely asked what his best price was, highlighting that the new retail was around the same…. The response was a rant that he didn’t buy these to lose money on ….and why should he reduce the price when it’s still brand new….

Krytacs are good but overrated. Their licensed Vector is a prime example: decent build quality on the outside only to be let down but bog-standard gearbox and so-so internals that need another £150 to make sense. My mate has one (stock) and he’s still wondering “why does anyone else’s Vector sounds different. 😂 If you’re looking to splash, try something from PTS, although if it’s made by KWA you are warned that parts most likely need to be shipped from the US and some are proprietary, but other than this KWA makes awesome builds that are solid out-of-the-box and use interchangeable parts, as long as you buy something based on VM4/RM4 platform. If you get one of their ERG variants, be warned that upgrading V3 ERG gearbox with a MOSFET is a mothe!#@$%er. The good thing about stuff from PTS, is that there’s a metric ton of parts and their QA is solid. I’ve got their Magpul PDR-C and Centurion Arms C4-10 (modded to a 15” M-LOK hand guard/barrel because I like it big) and both even share PMAGs, so I got a choice of 10 boxes, in case I wanna go ballistic. Not sure another AR-15 variant is what you want, but I’d say an alternative might be something a bit more exotic, like SG553 and a generally more expensive SCAR-L/H.

Pencott Wildwood and MTW setup works well. I got some WW bits coming to finish the loadout.

Fixed that for you.

Coming next Licking Mustard being Guiness Certified as the world record holder for "most obnoxious airsoft personality"

May as well update this in case someone wants to build one. Bored of waiting for a TanukiWorks HPA adaptor restock and unwilling to pay for extra magazines I got creative. Turns out the width of the standard KC02 mags and the collar of the top of the G&G M4 drums is almost identical. With not much more than fitting the Bowden spring into the KC02 mag and epoxying the mag into the drum - the KC02 HPA drum mag was born! I ran a test of a few hundred rounds and it feeds perfectly and is as consistent as one would expect with HPA. I was worried about the sheer weight of the thing in the mag well but it seems to be a non-issue

Had my first game with the KC02 on Sunday, learned a few things about the build. 1.) My hop wheel tensioner was rubbish. I’ve made a new one from a biro nib and it’s giving a far more positive click for each adjustment. 2.) The KJ plastic rail is rubbish and at one point I had to push my scope back to zero! I’ve got a metal RA tech one arriving soon but I had to buy an entire new outer barrel to get it! £140 oof 3.) When the hop wheel was in the right position, this thing sends BB’s a long way. 4.) 90rds is not enough to get through a 2 hour game. I need to find a KC02>MP5 HPA adaptor

Managed to get her down to a +-5fps deviation now. Going to nip into work tomorrow to pick up my valve tool - just want to make sure the inconsistencies aren’t down to the KJ outlet valves Can’t wait to see how far she can send 0.43g’s Re: Photo, the Cat destroyed a cardboard box. I’ve got wood floors going down on Tuesday. I’m not just a total slob!

so i bought a JG MP5 SD5 today i charged the battery put it in the gun , filled the mag inserted it but i put the firing mode onto semi from safety and when i pull the trigger nothing happens no sound or anything im wondering if the issue is to do with the battery any ideas?? : fixed , the battery wasn’t powerfull enough

https://www.facebook.com/groups/872829096162279/permalink/4086712031440620/?sale_post_id=4086712031440620 For your consideration, a broken 3d printed item of unclear quality, well it is broken all yours for £75....