UCAP New rules updated today. No Binary triggers or shitty m4 mags on pistols.

[Groot]

 

https://www.ucap.co.uk/site-rules.html?fbclid=IwAR14HwOpAbS21zlLDn_yW_pn-SBwOLsEGr7AamSwXrgCJqKOPilNWWWbKuM

[Tackle]

M4 mags (or similar) on pistols, yeah I get it, binary triggers are a bit "grey" as there's nothing to stop players spamming any aeg trigger, but the one I don't get is banning two-tones or clear gats, EVEN IF THEY'RE PAINTED ? 

I get no one likes ugly b#stard two-tones but if they're painted or cammed up then they look like everyone else's. 

 

 

[Groot]

Tbh I’m pretty sure if you turned up with a painted two tone and didn’t point out it was a painted two tone just to make a statement. You would be fine. 

[Adolf Hamster]

binary triggers i can sort of get behind as they effectively remove semi. sure you could fire one round then release the trigger pointing at the dirt, but lets face it nobody is gonna do that making 2 rounds the de-facto minimum you're gonna be sending at a target.

 

sure you can get a reasonably high round count with regular spamming, but however fast you can spam on a regular trigger is doubled on a binary trigger.

 

 

box mags on pistols i'm not so sure on, certainly for certain themed events i get it but for regular skirmishing? can't say i agree. sure i hate em, but you just gotta accept some folks don't think that way, and i can't really see them as being particularly enabling of dickish behavior in the same way binary triggers are (as in, what can you do with an m4 mag hpa'd hicapa that you couldn't do with an hpa'd arp9?)

 

the 2-tone thing i don't get at all, so some people are impatient and don't want to wait to get registered? what's wrong with that? again for themed events maybe, but not regular skirmishing.

[tinkle60]

UCAP have been against 2 tones since they were an idea, the reasoning is that the defence against the VCRA was that airsoft needed RIFs to aid in the suspension of disbelief when re-enacting military/LE scenarios and IFs undermine that concept.

 

I say vote with your wallet and go wherever works for you, it's not like there's no alternative nowadays.

[Adolf Hamster]

7 minutes ago, tinkle60 said:

UCAP have been against 2 tones since they were an idea, the reasoning is that the defence against the VCRA was that airsoft needed RIFs to aid in the suspension of disbelief when re-enacting military/LE scenarios and IFs undermine that concept.

 

i can kinda see that logic. thanks for clarifying.

[Druid799]

1 hour ago, tinkle60 said:

UCAP have been against 2 tones since they were an idea, the reasoning is that the defence against the VCRA was that airsoft needed RIFs to aid in the suspension of disbelief when re-enacting military/LE scenarios and IFs undermine that concept.

 

I say vote with your wallet and go wherever works for you, it's not like there's no alternative nowadays.

Way back when the VCR kicked in the very same small group of retailers who really pushed for the UKARA scheme to be the only way to be able to buy RIF’s , which would basically allow them to control the market(allegedly of course) once it was in place THEN turned around and created Two-tones to circumvent the UKARA scheme so they could still sell cheap ass CAR’s (Chav Assault Rifles) to the unwashed masses ! UCAP took a stance over it and have stood by that stance and I’ve always supported them for that .

[Cannonfodder]

Their site, their rules. If people don't like it then they can go elsewhere

[Groot]

26 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

Their site, their rules. If people don't like it then they can go elsewhere

 

I'm hoping this new rule set catches on and spreads to other sites. You know, like banning KickingMustang 

[Rogerborg]

20 hours ago, tinkle60 said:

UCAP have been against 2 tones since they were an idea

 

They've had since 2007 (when the definition was clarified) to come around, like absolutely everybody else (outside of milsim) has.  Points for stubbornness, I guess. 

 

They also still think that 0.2g BBs are a thing, and that Joule creep isn't.

 

I do actually really like that they post their risk assessment (although I can see some issues) and PLI details. I'd like all sites to do this -there's no reason not to, and or else how would you know that they're actually indemnified if the worst happens?

 

However, this is a deal breaker for me: "Players are not to retrieve BFG’s until end of game or area is captured"

 

Nope, they can and do get pocketed.  Given that they reserve the right to bill customers for damage, I'd reserve the right to bill them for lost pyro.  That cuts both ways.

[Cannonfodder]

48 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

However, this is a deal breaker for me: "Players are not to retrieve BFG’s until end of game or area is captured"

I've heard of a few sites which ask players not to retrieve spent BFGs till after the area isn't contested. It stops dead players whinning about getting shot while picking them up and twats using them as cover 

[colinjallen]

2 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

Their site, their rules. If people don't like it then they can go elsewhere

Their site, their thieving cunt of a site owner.  If people don't like it then they can go elsewhere.

[EDcase]

13 minutes ago, colinjallen said:

Their site, their thieving cunt of a site owner...

Haven't been so forgive my ignorance but is there some history there?

 

 

[Shamal]

1 hour ago, colinjallen said:

Their site, their thieving cunt of a site owner.  If people don't like it then they can go elsewhere.

Haha. I'll tell him next time I'm there that you send your best wishes 😆 

[Cannonfodder]

2 hours ago, EDcase said:

Haven't been so forgive my ignorance but is there some history there?

 

 

Caught flogging stolen kit from Hereford 

Edit:

https://www.forces.net/services/army/crooked-soldiers-who-stole-ps22000-sas-kit-pay-back-just-ps552

Edited February 9, 2022 by Cannonfodder

[EDcase]

8 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

Caught flogging stolen kit from Hereford 

Edit:

https://www.forces.net/services/army/crooked-soldiers-who-stole-ps22000-sas-kit-pay-back-just-ps552

Oh fu.......

Should have had a longer prison sentence 😠

[TheFull9]

I cannot even imagine how often that kind of thing happens and doesn't get found out.  Not an excuse AT ALL, but the military cannot function without trusting people to a fairly large extent so yeah.. alas.

 

Unless you can somehow disable the 2nd shot binary is definitely a bad idea safety wise and iffy even then given airsofters' trigger finger awareness.  I'd just class it the same as auto personally if I were making rules on when and where it could be used in game, certainly not as a replacement for normal semi/repetition.

 

I do despise the mindset that is attached to HPA pistols with AEG mags, but ban?  Hm.. not sure.  Super grey area on where you start and stop on what's allowed in terms of types of guns and gear.

 

The two tone thing is clearly fuckin bonkers.

[colinjallen]

2 hours ago, Shamal said:

Haha. I'll tell him next time I'm there that you send your best wishes 😆 

You can tell him whatever you want; he is a piece of shit.

20 minutes ago, TheFull9 said:

I cannot even imagine how often that kind of thing happens and doesn't get found out.  Not an excuse AT ALL, but the military cannot function without trusting people to a fairly large extent so yeah.. alas.

 

Unless you can somehow disable the 2nd shot binary is definitely a bad idea safety wise and iffy even then given airsofters' trigger finger awareness.  I'd just class it the same as auto personally if I were making rules on when and where it could be used in game, certainly not as a replacement for normal semi/repetition.

 

I do despise the mindset that is attached to HPA pistols with AEG mags, but ban?  Hm.. not sure.  Super grey area on where you start and stop on what's allowed in terms of types of guns and gear.

 

The two tone thing is clearly fuckin bonkers.

An old acquaintance of mine was in one of the Guards regiments; some upper class twit put him in charge of the stores, which he flogged off.  Realising that this might have been a bit of an error, he legged it to France and joined the FFL.  On discovering that everything was done in French or, as he put it, "I thought it was supposed to be a Foreign Legion; everything was in fucking French!", he deserted and made his way back to the UK, where he was promptly arrested and spent some time in the glasshouse.  He is now strangely reluctant to go to France.

[Speedbird_666]

5 minutes ago, colinjallen said:

You can tell him whatever you want; he is a piece of shit.

 

Not defending his actions but he's served his time and karma has caught up with him with a vengeance in the form of Motor Neuron Disease. Call him a piece of shit all you want, but I wouldn't wish that diagnosis on anybody.

 

I've never met the bloke, but watched a few vids of his musings on the UCAP FB page (I really must get to the bunker or Valiant) and I like the cut of his jib when it comes to the running of his sites and his thoughts on Airsoft in general.

 

The two-tone thing is odd, but who cares really - new players can rent from the site if needs be.

 

 

[colinjallen]

8 hours ago, Speedbird_666 said:

 

Not defending his actions but he's served his time and karma has caught up with him with a vengeance in the form of Motor Neuron Disease. Call him a piece of shit all you want, but I wouldn't wish that diagnosis on anybody.

 

I've never met the bloke, but watched a few vids of his musings on the UCAP FB page (I really must get to the bunker or Valiant) and I like the cut of his jib when it comes to the running of his sites and his thoughts on Airsoft in general.

 

The two-tone thing is odd, but who cares really - new players can rent from the site if needs be.

 

 

Motor Neurone Disease is a bastard; however, having that and serving his time do not make him any less a piece of shit.

[Rogerborg]

15 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

I've heard of a few sites which ask players not to retrieve spent BFGs till after the area isn't contested.

 

Truth to tell I've been asked not to do it, face to face, at a local site.  I'm happy to comply with any reasonable request from a marshal, but in this case I politely pointed out that BFGs had been repeatedly stolen at another local CQB site, and there was no way I was leaving it there.  Shrug from the marshal, so I waited for a gap in the action and went in, gun slung, shouts of "Dead man", lots of hand-waving.  In that case, I picked up the BFG then tailed on the end of a queue of their own dead players heading towards their respawn, before going the long way back to mine.  Reasonable people can find reasonable ways of doing things.

 

Alternatively, I'm also happy to just stand there and get shot indefinitely in order to keep an eye on pyro. Unless the site is fine with paying for losses that can be attributed to their own policy then, no, I'm not leaving BFGs lying around.

[Emergencychimps]

I am not a fan of the owner, but there's a few things I consider. 

 

He did serve his time, agree with the sentence or not the whole point of our justice system is that people get punished for doing naughty things and then should rehabilitate. There's an awful lot of stolen mod kit about, most is very low level(pairs of glasses etc), he just went to the extremes and got punished for it. I understand that they went after his finances as well via the tax man. 

 

With his diagnosis, it doesn't excuse what he did etc. but considering how awful it is, I don't think he needs a rougher time of it so I'll avoid any personal comments. 

 

I actually really appreciate their stance on subjects like 2 tones, binary triggers and pistols with high cap m4 mags. They championed the opinion against 2 tones to their financial detriment. They make money off people attending their sites and by implementing that rule they have fewer players, I am sure whatever "extras" they have made from more rentals or kit sold onsite, it isn't offset by the numbers that don't attend. Their principle was that 2 tone wasn't right and they stuck by that principle and were willing to take the hit to the wallet. Whether you agree with their principle or not, I do admire the conviction(boom boom) to stick to their ideals on it. 

 

Personally, not a fan of the idea of binary triggers (no idea if I have ever come up against one, normally these things are based on whether the person who has it is a knob or not) and pistols with high cap m4 mags, it's just not for me and if a local site had that rule I would see it as a reason to attend. I don't like speedsoft, if people do that's fine but the fact there is choice in the market is a good thing. If you want to speedsoft etc then great, go to sites that do it or allow that style, if you don't, I'd like there to be somewhere to go that applies suitable rules. More choice and variation of games, styles etc to me is very welcome, even if it means there are events, sites etc that I end up not wanting to attend. 

 

BFGs, had 3 for over 6 years and frankly they have saved me over £1000 in pyro, never had one stolen and I regularly leave them to the end of the game. Maybe I have been lucky or the sites I have attended have been ultra honest. even if they did get stolen I'd still be quids in (though annoyed!). However they do get stolen, I would hazard a guess that the rule is there so marshalls can step in and prevent dead players ruining firefights to collect their bfgs, if the area isn't in contact I can't see collecting used bfgs would be an issue. Have a strict rule in writing, then you can be flexible, don't have the rule at all and it can't be enforced when needed. 

 

Just my 2 pence worth.  

[MAX DICKER]

Dragon Valley never allowed repainted two tones because, if I recall correctly, "by repainting a two tone you're effectively manufacturing a RIF".

[Tommikka]

18 minutes ago, MAX DICKER said:

Dragon Valley never allowed repainted two tones because, if I recall correctly, "by repainting a two tone you're effectively manufacturing a RIF".

By painting a 2 tone you are modifying into a RIF, which is a VCRA offence.  But in the current legislation can be tied to a VCRA defence 

In the original VCR bill it was an explicit offence with no defence

Edited February 10, 2022 by Tommikka

[Druid799]

He sold stolen high value military kit very true BUT he wasn’t the one stealing it was he ? having served I can quite happily say the military are absolutely atrocious at securing kit and 90% of squaddies are thieving barstuards given half a chance when it comes to other peoples unattended kit and would happily sell the gold fillings from your teeth if they saw the opportunity !😆  

He was the middle man(no excuse for what he did) but he served his time chapter closed . 

immaterial of whether the UCAP ‘rules’ are good or bad they’ve ALWAYS given a reason why and stuck by them , not many sites do that .

with BFG’s it’s just you don't chuck it in a room and then immediately go straight in shouting your coming to get your ‘nade back !(think it’s safe to say we’ve all seen this happen🤦‍♂️) you just have to wait a couple of minutes till the gameplay has moved on from that point before you retrieve it .