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Now it's coming into the colder season AEG is better than gas but like Proffink said HPA is the way to go. You can buy a GBBR and tap the mags to run them on HPA during the colder season and in the summer remove the taps, replace the gas valves and away you go to use gas again. HPA is a good way to go as its not weather dependant

WE and G&G being some decent examples of decent AEGs not necessarily meaning decent GBBRs (though some of the WE stuff is ok).

As you are both playing on the next op, its always worth asking on the Okto group as well, as the guys on there will have foind their own solutions to provide fog free vision and protection without looking like a deep sea diver or the guy from the Texas Chainsaw Massacre

ESS ICE. Cheap as chips on ebay too.

Erm...ok You are still on about airsoft right?

Glad you like the sport but say goodbye to seeing money in your wallet

Well i played longmoor on saturday (epic venue!!!!!) and took my new smith optics boogie regulators which i give 10/10 for tacticoolness and style. But 0/10 for being able to see sod all! So after half a day of playing blind i swapped out at luch to the ever faithfull ess v12's. Safe to say iv had my fill of goggles now and the smiths are going back. So can anyone recomend shooting glasses that wrap nice and far around the sides of the face and fit close but also have either a head band strap or can be fitted with one as i just cant deal with fogging anymore but still want as close to the face protection as i can get.

Cheers, i have mailed beesting to see if they could drop one in my order as they were waiting for a delivery for the redline beofore they send it, which could be today or tuesday. Thanks

My new G&P M7A1 Type B Externally, keeping it simple, swapped the standard rail for a Dytac Troy TRX Battlerail 7.2" and the flash hider for a SI Cookie Cutter replica, with a G&P T1. Categorically, do not like the stock. That will be changed, looking at probably an MFT BMS or similar. Internally - G&G Plastic Hop Unit A+ REAPS Bucking Dytac H Nub Orga Magnus HD 6.13mm 182mm ASCU Gen 4 Lonex Titan A2 Motor Will see how that goes for now, I suspect as with all G&P Gearboxes i've had in the past, I'm going to need a new piston after 5-6k bb's, at which point, i'll pop a Lonex Blue one in, along with a Siegetek DSG Gearset, Sorbo, reshim, radius the GB shell etc etc.

Get a tippmann, hpa and takes aeg mags 😎 And the recoil is epic

Started off with AEG and used it for a fair few weeks but managed to get hold of a GBB vector and tbh I haven't looked back since. The AEG has been left in the bag and all I have used is the vector I love the GBB how it feels and how it fires so far it's been flawless and maintanence has consisted of some oil on parts and nothing more. So for me it's GBB all the way to put it another way I bought a UMG about a month ago and haven't used it yet...

Not quite as easy to do that with a GHK, as all the valves are in the top of the mag (so they dint get full of mud and sticks and worms when you're rolling around like a pro), you could try tapping the caps in the bottom of the mag but it would be a recipe for disaster I think. At least that's the reasoning I make based on the assumption that the normal way to do it is replace the inlet valve with a Jack for your air line, and set your regulator to a similar pressure to green gas to avoid having to go to town on every seal and valve to keep it tight

An old worn out spring will be shorter as that is why it is worn out.

My WE p226 is about 2 years old now and with me every game day. only upgrade I've made to mine is a guader 150% recoil spring. Did have a problem with it when I added the 150% hammer spring and it wouldn't cycle with the hammer spring on WE Nuprol 4.0 gas so I run it with the stock hammer spring and just the 150% recoil spring and it works perfect.

Seconded

Yes. This. My we pistol is built like a tank, but were yet to see how my brothers scar handles a few skirmishes.

I think he meant no, it's not a good idea. Manufacturers might make crap AEGs but awesome GBBRs. Plus GHK don't make any AEGs but make fantastic GBBRs. If you already have an AEG Go for the gbb. If not, I think it's always worth having an AEG as a backup, as they seem to me to be a little more reliable

No. Have a look at this thread. It'll help with choosing a brand for GBBRs. http://www.airsoft-forums.co.uk/index.php/topic/28296-need-help-with-picking-a-gbbr/

I know it's been very annoying for someone with bellerin and Walcott in there fantasy team atleast your not supporting chelsea

We use both as there is not a lot to choose between Ice and Sawflys. The ESS are slightly more better looking and dont have the brow frame like the Sawflys. Both have adjustable arms and elastic to hold them on.

Spring! But that isn't an option Personally I'm a gas fan as well. I find them a lot easier to maintain and a lot more fun to shoot. Having more "realistic" ammo limits also makes it more fun for me - makes me play a lot smarter. That said AEGs are more practical but I hate taking gearboxes apart. Most of my AEGs stay stock because of this

I love GBB as well. Advantages are increased realism with recoil and more noise. On full auto the recoil could throw your aim a little. Some people may view noise and recoil as a disadvantage but for me the it's worth it. With my GBBR I usually stick to single shot or 3 round burst whereas with my AEG I tend to be a bit more liberal. Limited ammo means you need to play differently from using a high cap AEG. The magazines are heavy. If you're carrying 4-5 of them around at a time it can add up, especially if they're all thrown into a dump pouch. Running costs are higher than an AEG and also maintenance as well. Varying temperature means performance varies from day to day so I need to adjust my hop at the start of each game day.

I love GBB, and prefer it over AEG. The main downside is the limited ammo, so you can't switch to full auto and hose down an area when a target is at the limit of your range. Other than that, they're just bloody good fun

Yeh, you gotta be committed to your gun if you're going gas. Lots of maintenance on the older systems and magazines plus many of them requiring significant upgrading to get them functioning right. Then there's the issue of the winter and having to consider CO2 or an HPA tapped magazine for it to perform well. Also there's the cost of gas itself - propane is a cheaper option, but certainly lots of green gasses can get expensive. Personally I love them and haven't owned an AEG in years but I'd caution anyone thinking of getting into it all the same. They can be more expensive to run (not all of them, but as a rule of thumb) to begin with: If I were starting today I'd certainly go down the route of Tippmann (their gen 2 is coming out soon™) or GHK as those are the newest and most efficient systems out there. GHK in particular are very nice looking guns and their magazines are the best in the business right now. HPA is - I think - a better call if you have the money. The upfront costs are pretty astronomical for something with blow back (e.g. Escort or Daytona Gun) or even the rig just so you can HPA tap an existing GBBR, but getting a whole Scuba tank refilled for £3.50 is great. Not having the worry of winter looming is also good. Again though, cash is the limiting factor as it is with many things in airsoft. Spend as much as you're comfortable with, but I'd say set aside as much as £500 for a GBBR with the magazines, gas and all that.

Could be worse Im a Birmingham City supporter. You never feel any joy following them.

Yup, you'll be fine. I'd consider the Fairy power spray first and about an hour of scrubbing - that'll get almost all of it off. Takes a long time, but it's worth it for the results - you could use wet and dry but that tends to be less effective though you'll get quicker results.

The ares has the best externals as its one piece sell lile the real gun. The s&t pro is in two pieces but it has both better internals and more stamdard internals than the ares. I chose the s&t pro and its been the most reliable gun i own. I have a detailed review in the reviews section you should read.

Camo hydro dip never looks right,its too perfect.Dollar bills is just gangsta chav. Hello kitty would really annoy some of the walts so that would be cool. Tempted to get the minion picture I use on my profile sprayed on my cheek riser. Would make a change from the punisher logos that seem to crop up everywhere.

Get yourself some mid caps.

Looks good if you put the effort into it, no point though as it ends up peeling off over time. Some examples:

From what I've heard the S&T tavor is an ares clone but not sure if it's any better/worse. http://forum.airsoftnebraska.com/index.php?topic=7306.0 This is very useful aswell

anything built for real soldiers really is what you're after. If it's a plate carrier you're after find something sized for Large plates and you'll be set.

Just my take..... If you can go for metal ICS rather than plastic receiver I'm only going by a 42w sportsline vs Combat Machine (other plastic ICS "might" be better but this is just a comparison of 42w v CM) The ICS Sport Line range seems to be the harder plastic that might be more prone to breaking in colder weather G&G CM's use a slightly flexible polymer receiver that imho might - I say might not be so brittle in very cold weather not gonna clobber tress on purpose for shatter test though but think it might be a little more sturdier than other hard plastic receivers Other than that I was very impressed with my ICS 42W rating the starter £150 guns a very close second to CM's CM's have a better range of M4 styles/ris etc.... I'm not so convinced with G&G's £200-£300 range most with gimmicky blow-back crap So I still rate CM Starter's up to £150 ish or a little more for new SR range When you get to £200+ well it is a whole new ball game as numerous others come into the equation Both of these companies are well respected and pi$$ all over another Taiwan aeg - SRC (SRC starters are $hit in comparison to the above mofo's)

I was fortunate to be able to go straight for the gun that I wanted, and after all the months waiting to buy my first RIF I did not plan having to compromise. Hopefully a decent brand/model will last several years and is good enough straight out the box without needing upgrades. Of course it is all the other kit for the gun that adds to the cost; extra magazines, sling mount and sling, scope and mounts, flashlight and batteries, fore-grip, rail covers, etc. But that is just pimping the ride. Sometimes spending a bit more for quality is better than taking second best, and saves the need to buy a second gun (yes, I know that is heresy to some to the forum) because your starter gun is not right. It really is a personal thing and what best suits you.

Ok I'll start saving up. My parents don't have a problem with me getting a gun, in fact my dad is trying to persuade my brother to get one.

NOT THAT YOU'D EVER THINK OF DOING THAT

Just make sure you dont accidentally get some fairy power spray on it and remove the paint when wiping off your accidental spillage. Dont tell people on internet forums about your mishap either, it might give the wrong impression.

No idea what half of that was advertising but iv just bought all of them! Who says sales marketing doesnt work eh?

I am starting to show a couple of wear items on hard to replace parts. The first is that the blow back metal is starting to loose its shape and its failing to catch on pulling the bolt back, so you need to hold the bolt back to adjust the hop. In addition the spring release is sometimes not working either and seems related to the failure for the bolt to catch. The rail is attached to the top via hex screws into reinforced plastic and this is starting to loose rigidness. This is becoming an accuracy/optics issue with a heavier optic. Neither of these is easy to get replacement parts for and I think that realises the issues with custom guns like this that don't have specific replacement parts on sale and aren't that well made to begin with. Nothing too serious has gone wrong (that wasn't my fault) but since these parts started showing issues I thought I better mention it. No outright failure yet.

Features The S&T Tar 21 professional was released in 2014, its a electric blow back and in the USA its licensed by Elite Force, but here in Europe you'll find it under its manufacturers name of S&T. Be aware S&T has an earlier gun called the Sport and these gun don't share a lot internally, although the externals are quite similar. It has no lock back on empty magazine or any other fancy electronics. Its actually a reasonably heavy gun but the weight is all centred on the gearbox at the rear, making it feel light, especially on the left arm. Its got one small rail on the top and one on the right hand side, there is enough to fit a scope on the gun and for a flash light but not a lot else. I am told you can swap the charging handle and blow back to the other side if you want to but I haven't tried to. The battery goes in the front hand guard and it fits a 7.4V 2600mah vapex crane stock battery just about but it wont fit bigger. Externals The gun is all polymer on the outside, which considering the real one is like that as well is to be expected. The externals show some seams top and bottom. where the two moulds join and there are some blemishes around those edges as well which draw attention to the way its put together. The plastic of the main body of the gun is quite hardy, the plastic is certainly very strong and up to about 8mm thick in places. The main issue on the externals is probably the top sight mount rail, which is a little wobbly. The bolt looks reasonably good as it moves back and forth and its quite a loud clang especially next to the ear. Sometimes the bolt looks half way back and sometimes it doesn't, I am not entirely sure why it sometimes leaves the hop wheel showing a bit. The trigger has a long pull before going off, partly because its a bullpup and partly because its just got a lot of tolerance. The trigger is pretty bad, its got no feel on break. The spring pushing the trigger overrides the feel of the gearbox switch so you wont ever get a nice bite point to pull to. One of the oddest things about the Tar 21 is that it has no sling points.The stock has a hole that goes through and the Israeli's actually use a para-cord loop with a figure eight on the back to produce a hook point. This does give you a single point sling point but its quite far back and you would need a pretty high single point sling to have the gun sit high enough on you not to interfere with your legs. There is no front point on this gun either so out of the box you are not going to be using a two point sling (the ares has one with the front pin). I fitted a QD point in the upper receiver, the plastic is strong and a simple nut and bolt on a QD was all that was necessary to get a second sling point on the gun. Prior to making the second point however I used a paracord loop around the middle of the gun behind the hand guard and rear sight which gave me a more forward single point sling point.. It was a more balanced point to have the sling attached to the rifle but it wasn't ideal as the gun still tended to sit quite low. In terms of magazines the MAG brand has worked well enough, feeding every time. They are a little loose and rattle about a little but they work just fine. PTS EPM mags also seem to fit and feed perfectly as do G&P mags, a lonex flash mag and some other random mags thrown to me in a skirmish as well. The magwell is standard M4 and it seems compatible with everything I have put in it. Internals Its got an OK enough gearbox shell. Its quite light and thin, its not ported, its not amazing or fantastic metal but its well machined. Its specific to the gun so its best not to break it. The gun came with a 400 fps spring and its about 25% shorter than most of the springs I have seen which is a little strange. The cylinder, piston head, piston, cylinder head and nozzle are all type 2 compatible (more or less) and the gears are all standard. The motor in the gearbox is a short type but its got a custom spring holding it in. I found the motor struggled a little pulling back the blow back, you could hear it struggling a little and getting warm. By default the motor seemed to produce about 12 rps. The gear has just bushings, no bearings that I remember seeing. The gears are metal, they seem reasonably solid and I haven't so far had any issues with them. I needed to completely reshim them and it took a lot of shims to get them to stay still. The gearbox seems to be far too wide for these gears and they make a lot of noise initially. Even once shimmed they never really turn super smoothly but it can be improved. I haven't really done much with the trigger switch I have left it completely alone. Its one of those components I fear will explode at any minute and its going to be hard to replace. The piston head in mine had truly awful seal, it provided almost no resistance at all. The nozzle also has poor seal onto the cylinder head and there was not even an O ring in it. The cylinder head also didn't seal very well to the cylinder and was of the usual cheap plastic single seal type. So all in all you can expect the air seal to be below par in this gun. The hop unit is plastic and it doesn't hold for more than a few hours before it needs resetting. Its also completely custom to the gun so you can't replace it. The original bucking half melted onto the inner barrel and really struggled to provide any useful hop effect and accuracy, I had to replace that immediately. The inner barrel is brass and the inner finish was fairly rough. The barrel on the outside wasn't very flat , it rolls oddly but that doesn't say anything for the inner bore and its straightness. The gun is held together with 3.5mm and 3mm hex screws and a few external pins. You are going to be using the hex screws alot if you take the gun apart an it takes a bit of time. To get the gearbox out you'll have to remove pretty much everything in the gun, including all the wiring (18 awg) and the trigger. There is no mosfet, no quick detach connectors and the wire is held in place with little plastic spacers, its never clipped down anywhere. The wires don't actually come loose but its not very secure and it certainly could come loose at some point, I have just had the gun open a lot. The outer barrel is attached a little strangely. There is a plastic plate just in front of the gear box that it notches into and that is held down by 4 screws (that go into plastic). It holds the hop unit reasonably strongly against the gearbox and it also holds the barrel reasonably securely but I suspect given a bit of force on the barrel you could snap this mechanism of holding it down. I have actually gone face down off a tree with this gun and buried the barrel 6 inches in mud and dropped the gun on the flash hider indoors and it hasn't yet shown any sign of damage but its a concern as most guns have either no structure holding it specifically or a lot, this is all at the rear of the barrel and nothing holds the outer barrel to the front of the gun at all. Customising the internals Personally after a few games I felt the need to customise the following to improve the guns range and accuracy. - Spring (used an SP120 and cut it down to size which dropped it right on 350 fps with 0.2s) - Cylinder head (ASG dual o ring) - Motor (ASG Ultimate torque) - Piston head + piston (ASG, the louder large hole version) - Nozzle (SHS metal red) - Hop unit's arm (from a lonex M4 hop unit, hand to be sanded to clear the blow back) - lapped the inner barrel (Hunterseeker 5 kit from air lab) - R Hop (Z kit install, but actually it took a bit of dialling in to work well). - The inner barrel required a little bit of shimming, just about half a millimetre front and rear. I would basically recommend all of these to improve the gun. The air seal needs work and the basic bucking needs replacing. Accuracy and range out of the box Not all that great. The main issue is that about 1 in 4 shots was normal and went the sort of range you might expect from an AEG, 30m effective range. But 3 out of the 4 shots showed very little hop and would drop short. Thus the out of the box performance was inconsistent. This was actually easily fixed with a bucking change. The black bucking that came with the gun had gone off/was completely rubbish and a change to a G&G green helped immensely to make the gun more consistent. Then it reached out to the 30m range or so. Upgraded accuracy With the airseal fixed and the R hop in place and the barrel nice and shiny the range is quite good, around 60m effective doubling the base guns accuracy from its default configuration. Much of that came from the airseal improving the consistency of the gun enormously making 3-4 shots bursts at long range enough for a hit. The R hop further extended the range, its more than a person width however but certainly better than the gun initially. Now it only uses 0.28g BB's or above (R hops fault) and it seem to prefer 0.30g BBs for the best accuracy. Problems There are some problems with the blow back feature locking back on the charging handle. The lock point on the metal of the blow back is wearing out as time goes on and I anticipate at some point it wont lock back at all. Right now its unreliably locking back but I don't trust my fingers on it. This will deteriorate quite rapidly until it can't lock back at all. The initial bucking as mentioned needed replacement. The top rail wobbles. Conclusion My overall feeling is that if you are looking for a Tar 21 this is the most modern version out there. Its more upgradeable than the Ares and its a lot cheaper as well. But its certainly not the best build for a high quality and highly accurate airsoft gun and many other base guns around its price point are going to outperform it. The main limitation on upgrades is the hop unit, most of the other poor performance parts can be replaced but this part is custom to the gun and its going to be a problem. An R hop will reduce the dependency on the hop unit, but the hop unit can break and its going to be hard to get the gun up and running again. Replacing the initial hop rubber is likely going to be necessary for everyone as will a spring change for UK field limits unless yours was already downgraded. This I feel is a project gun that needs work to be competitive and not really skirmish-able out of the box, and it can be made so due to the M4 compatibility of most parts. I love the ergonomics of the Tar 21, its remarkably well balanced and very pointable weapon due to its bullpup design and its weight distribution. I love the way you hold it and with the upgrades I am finding it to be a fantastic gun. However I can't say much good about the original internals they weren't great quality and the end result reflected that.