Questionable politics and airsofters

[BreadyC]

I distinctly wear patches which convey my own personal political reservations. I don’t understand how anyone can wear politically motivated patches or historical ones without any idea of the connotations.

 

One of the ones which offends me badly is when people wear Keffiyehs and run around with AKs when they couldn’t even possibly relate to meaning of some of the patterns they’re wearing.

 

They’re the kind of people who’d wear a Palestinian keffiyeh and not understand the message they’re sending regardless of where they stand on the matter.

 

I also can’t stand any offensive Arabic patches which say things like Kafir/Infidel that shit really pisses me off because it’s normally young white CoD playing teenagers with absolutely no idea of the symbolism and struggles associated with the cause they’re imitating.

 

All my patches are clear obvious bright left-wing patches ranging from “Anti-Capitalist Socialist Club” to a Progressive Pride Flag patch.

 

I consciously make an effort to defy and offer some sort of counter to people who wear offensive patches and are harbouring questionable views.

 

But ultimately if you want to wear a Gorka and rock an AK-12 I personally don’t have an issue with it until you go slapping modern Russian military symbolism on it. Much like how someone’s not going to pull up your Mauser unless you engrave a swastika into the handle or something.

Edited June 14, 2023 by BreadyC

[RostokMcSpoons]

1 hour ago, BreadyC said:

One of the ones which offends me badly is when people wear Keffiyehs and run around with AKs when they couldn’t even possibly relate to meaning of some of the patterns they’re wearing.

 

They’re the kind of people who’d wear a Palestinian keffiyeh and not understand the message they’re sending regardless of where they stand on the matter.

You see there are levels of ignorance which I think you have to make some allowance for.   I am one of the ignorant.  I have never heard of a Keffiyeh. I had no idea whatsoever that the patterns had any symbolism behind them, I just thought they were purely decorative (or in the case of more militaristic ones, sort-of camo)    I've been educated today (thank you), but if someone sees a shemagh / Keffiyeh for sale and buys it because they like the pattern... well I certainly couldn't hold them to account for it, because it's something (to borrow a much-mocked phrase) that's "an unknown unknown" to both them and me.

 

 

Back to the main topic, I've got some personal experience in the Z patch thing. I'm not sure how to, or even whether I should share, but as I'm typing I feel I might as well keep going, see what you guys think...

There's a young chap who goes regularly to Spec Ops who has worn a Z patch on several occasions.  The first time I saw it my blood boiled.  I naturally assumed he was just being a twat, or utterly ignorant.  My initial desire was to run up to him, rip it off his arm, verbally abuse him for , and generally put either, or both, of us at risk of getting thrown off the site.  
Instead I decided to mentally count to 10, and approach it with an opening gambit of "that's a bold thing to wear that today, I can't say I like it".
He explained he's Russian, his family back in Russia support the war (presumably brainwashed by Putin etc), and his uncle is actually fighting.  He made a comment about the BBC as 'Main Stream Media', fake news about the Russians etc, from which I reached the conclusion that he's in a Pro-Putin environment where they're all soaking up the propaganda.  And as he's got at least one family member in the army, it'd be pretty difficult for him to go against that without alienating himself from his close relatives.

 

I kind of put him on my "RL ignore list", but as it turned out he's a nice guy, plays airsoft the right way, didn't push the Z agenda at anyone (though I think he'd defend it when questioned, as he did to me).  He became too friendly to ignore, and I've turned a blind eye to his patch, and not talked politics since.   He greets me by name, gave me a slice of birthday cake (which some others had turned down - not sure if they were ostracizing him for the patch, worried the cake would have Novichok in it, or just concerned their waist-line would end up like mine... but turning down cake is not something I can do easily). 

 

I really don't know if I've dropped my moral compass by not forcefully pointing out that the error of his ways, or being the good person who sees past flaws and make allowance for circumstances.
The only thing I can say for sure is I was mightily pleased when he turned up to the last skirmish without the patch, indeed he was wearing British gear I think.   Maybe Carlos had had a word with him.  

 

So yeah.  Slava Ukraini

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[Leo Greer]

I think @RostokMcSpoons ‘s response summed up my feelings pretty nicely.

 

I would be in the ignorant camp for most of these things. Do I know what a Swastika is and why not to wear it? Yeah. Do I know what patterns on shemaghs or keffiyehs mean what? Heck no.

 

Young players are stupid, not always malicious. We’ll change more of their behavior by being friends than we will by alienating/being hostile.

[BreadyC]

48 minutes ago, Leo Greer said:

I think @RostokMcSpoons ‘s response summed up my feelings pretty nicely.

 

I would be in the ignorant camp for most of these things. Do I know what a Swastika is and why not to wear it? Yeah. Do I know what patterns on shemaghs or keffiyehs mean what? Heck no.

 

Young players are stupid, not always malicious. We’ll change more of their behavior by being friends than we will by alienating/being hostile.

100%, to be clear. I’m not going around starting fights with everyone lmao.

 

 I’m just saying, I make as conscious an effort as the specifically malicious players in counter to their views.

 

I understand a lot of it is ignorance and that’s acceptable to a degree, it’s those who are deliberate edge lords or stand by it in the face of confrontation I’m less friendly with…

 

But as @RostokMcSpoonssaid, it’s a small world and I am not in the business of getting kicked off sites so I keep quiet most the time.

 

I was merely giving a granted very specific example, I remember a time when people having “terrorist” kits wearing traditional Afghan dress was somewhat normal and apparently acceptable so it was the first example that popped into head.

 

BlueFor always used to have those offensive infidel patches, and OpFor always dressed super offensive and didn’t understand the cause they were impersonating.

Edited June 14, 2023 by BreadyC

[Rogerborg]

7 hours ago, BreadyC said:

“Anti-Capitalist Socialist Club”

 

I'm not entirely sure where our super-luxury personal indulgence toys fit into any 5 Year Plans. 🤔

[Cannonfodder]

3 hours ago, BreadyC said:

it’s those who are deliberate edge lords or stand by it in the face of confrontation I’m less friendly with…

The thing is by doing that you're giving them the attention they want. 

 

Thinking about it I'd rather not see any political patches, whether they're to the left or the right, as I'm on site to shoot plastic at people not debate which form of government is best. Treat your political views like you treat your dick. They're both ok to have, they're ok to be proud of but what's not ok is forcing it down someone's throat.

 

As for finding something offensive, at the end of the day we all have a different place where we draw the line (I know I've got a dark sense of humour but there's certain things which piss me off). If you're going to start screaming at someone over something you don't like and demanding they remove it then IMO you look just as silly as them

[Leo Greer]

1 hour ago, Cannonfodder said:

Treat your political views like you treat your dick. They're both ok to have, they're ok to be proud of but what's not ok is forcing it down someone's throat.

And they’re both okay to show to people, but not before anyone asks. 😏

[Rogerborg]

7 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

not debate which form of government is best

 

Absolute rule by the living corpse of a soul-consuming God-Emperor sat upon a golden throne. No debate needed, or indeed permitted.

 

[Cannonfodder]

44 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

Absolute rule by the living corpse of a soul-consuming God-Emperor sat upon a golden throne. No debate needed, or indeed permitted.

 

Well they couldn't be any worse than what we've got to choose between 

45 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Tbh unlike Captain America I'm not getting that reference. To me that looks like the lovechild of the Iron Maiden mascot Eddie and Riff Raff from the Rocky Horror Picture Show 

[Pupa2794]

53 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Absolute rule by the living corpse of a soul-consuming God-Emperor sat upon a golden throne. No debate needed, or indeed permitted.

 

So, Suella Braverman for PM then? 

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

Tbh unlike Captain America I'm not getting that reference.

 

Nerd stuff, related to my pretend-space-soldier costume.  It's from a far future sci-fi setting predicated on absolute ideological zealotry, where the slightest digression from the approved narrative in deed or word or even suspected thought results in accusations of heresy and non-humanity.  So, nothing at all like the kind, gentle, nuanced and balanced political debate of CURRENT_YEAR.  

[Leo Greer]

3 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Nerd stuff, related to my pretend-space-soldier costume.  It's from a far future sci-fi setting predicated on absolute ideological zealotry, where the slightest digression from the approved narrative in deed or word or even suspected thought results in accusations of heresy and non-humanity.  So, nothing at all like the kind, gentle, nuanced and balanced political debate of CURRENT_YEAR.  

It took a friend approximately 3 hours to explain these concepts to me, through a series of humorous and incredibly random WH 40K parody videos…

[Lozart]

7 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

Tbh unlike Captain America I'm not getting that reference. To me that looks like the lovechild of the Iron Maiden mascot Eddie and Riff Raff from the Rocky Horror Picture Show 

 

Obligatory meme response:

 

[AirSniper]

You may as well wear blackface and scream allahu akbar to top it off... Really want to offend as many people as you can, thats the dochy thing to do.

People will wear regalia to upset people, I have seen some patches in my time and know that people get them because they think that they are edgy like the Osama game patch I have seen... Not something I would wear, I think that it would be the last thing a person of the faith would want to see.

 

Its a game to have fun, its not a game to bring politics in to the game. IMHO leave that at the door.

[The Waco Kid]

On 11/06/2023 at 16:09, Cannonfodder said:

All this talk of ww2 german uniforms has reminded me of something I overheard at a game last month. There was a someone playing in a vague attempt at a ww2 German loadout with a swastika on his helmet and double lightning bolt patches on his collar. While I thought it was a a bit silly, its what some other kid said that made me think WTF? While stood around waiting for the game briefing he called it a loadout of the bad guys from Call of Duty*. All I could think what are kids being taught in schools these days that they don't recognise symbols of a regime guilty of one of the worst acts of genocide in the past 100 years?

 

*I'm paraphrasing here as he sounded like someone had ordered Ali G from wish.com

The gen Z tat makes me laugh for this reason. Not only Russian speshul military twattery but as it’s also Waffen  SS 🤦‍♀️ 

 

Run kit badge less. A lot of military gear was reused and fielded but units other than the ones we historically associate them with.

 

Polish troops had German uniforms and kit at the outbreak of WW2. Just rebadged.

The Allied powers equipped border guards with rebadged Wehrmacht kit to the border guard after WW2, and you get to use a FAL with it.

Soviet and Russian kit reflagged to most Eastern European countries. 

I like the historical stuff and honestly couldn’t give a shit what targets wear. 😁

 

But wearing the most contentious stuff at a bimble game is just to get a reaction.

Piss take away and game on! If they can’t take it more fool them.

 

That said there is a lot of revisionist bullshit about certain items of clothing (rather than badges) holding specific political messaging. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by The Waco Kid

[TacticalWaifu]

20 minutes ago, The Waco Kid said:

That said there is a lot of revisionist bullshit about certain items of clothing (rather than badges) holding specific political messaging. 

 

If you're referring to @BreadyC's keffiyeh remarks, specific meaning and history behind various pieces of headgear like that are significant and long-standing -- and while not common knowledge spread along UK shores, are absolutely in no way "revisionist bullshit" 🙄

[Colin Allen]

4 minutes ago, TacticalWaifu said:

 

If you're referring to @BreadyC's keffiyeh remarks, specific meaning and history behind various pieces of headgear like that are significant and long-standing -- and while not common knowledge spread along UK shores, are absolutely in no way "revisionist bullshit" 🙄

Different coloured keffiyehs were used to indicate allegiance to Fatah and the PFLP; wearing the wrong one in the wrong place at the wrong time was potentially a life shortening mistake.

[Speedbird_666]

4 minutes ago, Colin Allen said:

Different coloured keffiyehs were used to indicate allegiance to Fatah and the PFLP; wearing the wrong one in the wrong place at the wrong time was potentially a life shortening mistake.

 

So - I occasionaly wear one of these olive Webtex shemaghs around my neck (some events even mandate them for opfor kit).

For my own edification - are we saying that some people find it offensive to wear something like this?

[Tackle]

It's kinda all crips & bluds innit

4 minutes ago, Speedbird_666 said:

 

So - I occasionaly wear one of these olive Webtex shemaghs around my neck (some events even mandate them for opfor kit).

For my own edification - are we saying that some people find it offensive to wear something like this?

#metoo

[Colin Allen]

1 hour ago, Speedbird_666 said:

 

So - I occasionaly wear one of these olive Webtex shemaghs around my neck (some events even mandate them for opfor kit).

For my own edification - are we saying that some people find it offensive to wear something like this?

I doubt that anyone you meet at an airsoft site would find it offensive.  However, in some Muslim traditions green ones are worn by those who are regarded as descendants of the Prophet and the Imam Ali.  I wouldn’t worry about it.

[The Waco Kid]

https://m.jpost.com/israel/heads-up-its-the-new-israeli-keffiyeh

[DerDer]

4 hours ago, Colin Allen said:

Different coloured keffiyehs were used to indicate allegiance to Fatah and the PFLP; wearing the wrong one in the wrong place at the wrong time was potentially a life shortening mistake.

Benefits of being scrim scarf master race  aficionados.

[Cannonfodder]

19 hours ago, The Waco Kid said:

https://m.jpost.com/israel/heads-up-its-the-new-israeli-keffiyeh

On a different note, is the Jerusalem Post hiring proof readers? If not they should be

[Defender90]

There's a lot of sense spoken here. Yes we should be careful as any small group can be portrayed as guilty of wrongthink in the febrile clickbait climate nowadays. 

That said I'm on the verge of old fartdom now, but I was bought up with the general sentiment that you don't wear badges and insignia you're not entitled to.

I take it a stage further and to make sure I absolutely can not be mistaken for a walt pretending to be a real soldier I wear a deliberate mismatch of different camo patterns. (Anyway it breaks up my silhouette. Or something). 

My first thought about Z or Wagner insignia is that while we should aspire to live in a free-er and more tolerant country I would enjoy shooting at that.

I have seen someone in Waffen SS get up but as he didn't have badges as I remember I guess it was okay. My half German nephew raised his eyebrows mind you. I mean if you've got an Stg44 you absolutely must accessorise with I suppose I sort of understand.

But frankly I find the lack of historical knowledge and nuance of Gen Z pretty frustrating, one game and we had to grab various flags and once we had the German flag the lad with it was all like "I've got the nazi flag!" He was serious, it was the flag of the modern Bundesrepublik Deutschland and I don't think he understood why I was upset.

It's not so much that they're edgelords or dickheads I suspect, but rather that a lot of what we're talking about here can be laid at the door of a simplistic education in history and civics (or lack thereof) in recent decades.

Warhammer 40K or Star Wars cosplay and you're on much safer ground.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Defender90

[Rogerborg]

9 hours ago, Defender90 said:

Warhammer 40K or Star Wars cosplay and you're on much safer ground.

 

I mean, you'd think, but even then it seems that some fans take the Immortal Leader of our Race part a bit too far.