Ghillie suit wearers/snipers wearing team armbands around their ankles or hidden among their foliage. Cheating? Close to the limits? Tactical?

[colinjallen]

What say you?

At a recent game, I encountered a ghillied-up sniper towards the rear of our position, facing towards the building we were defending and any flanking enemy.  I looked at his right arm, no armband; I then moved to look at his left arm and he shot me with his pistol.  It turned out that he was on the other team and had his armband pretty much hidden around his ankle.

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

It's up to however the site wants to implement ghillie-specific rules. If they don't have a requirement to keep the armband on the arm, then I wouldn't feel bad about shooting someone with one around their ankle if it came to it.

[colinjallen]

1 minute ago, DrAlexanderTobacco said:

It's up to however the site wants to implement ghillie-specific rules. If they don't have a requirement to keep the armband on the arm, then I wouldn't feel bad about shooting someone with one around their ankle if it came to it.

True enough!  I had to admire him for getting where he had so quickly but the whole idea of clearly displayed armbands is to enable players to identify who is on which side.

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

9 minutes ago, colinjallen said:

True enough!  I had to admire him for getting where he had so quickly but the whole idea of clearly displayed armbands is to enable players to identify who is on which side.

I think ultimately for stuff like this, expectation management is the key.

 

I.e. in this specific example, ghillies are always a contentious issue for reasons exactly like this so I'd expect a site during the briefing to say something like

 

"Yo, ghillies might wear their armband on their leg to make it harder for them to get spotted. However this does mean they might get engaged by friendlies who aren't sure of their team, but that's both party's decision to make"

 

and so on.

Edited August 22, 2022 by DrAlexanderTobacco

[#blackadder]

I’ve fallen foul of that one . Now I light ‘em up (to be on the safe side ) . 

[Nick G]

If in doubt light 'em up ! If you can't see a team band just assume they are the other team.

[Impulse]

I'll add my two pence as a regular bush cosplayer. In short, if you're unsure and can't see a band just shoot them first.

 

My local site makes you put them on your arm, however I've found it's really easy to mostly conceal the armband beneath all the ghillie flippyflappy bits on the arm and actually prefer it to putting it on my leg which isn't as easy to conceal and tends to be more visible with how I play as I go prone a lot. However the trade off is that I get friendly fired more than I get shot by the enemies, but as a ghillie who tries to keep my armband out of sight that is something I fully expect and encourage; if you're not sure on a ghillie's team, shoot first and ask later to be safe (unless it's super obvious they're on your team / they're actively waving or shouting at you and trying to get your attention). If they moan, maybe they shouldn't be using a ghillie as that's just part of it if they want to make their armband hard to see, which you want to do as a ghillie because bright blue or red or yellow doesn't blend in well with the UK woodland.

 

In terms of wearing it on the ankle, if the site allows it then you should be allowed to do so, but my earlier point still applies; if you're unsure, shoot the ghillie first unless it's obvious they're on your team.

[Rogerborg]

24 minutes ago, colinjallen said:

I had to admire him for getting where he had so quickly

 

Conceivably he was playing to the Licking Mustard rulebook, and had "pre-emptively positioned" himself.

[colinjallen]

6 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Conceivably he was playing to the Licking Mustard rulebook, and had "pre-emptively positioned" himself.

Given an overheard conversation about how he enjoyed bouncing BBs off people's heads, I suspect that he may have been an acolyte of that particular twat.

14 minutes ago, Impulse said:

I'll add my two pence as a regular bush cosplayer. In short, if you're unsure and can't see a band just shoot them first.

 

My local site makes you put them on your arm, however I've found it's really easy to mostly conceal the armband beneath all the ghillie flippyflappy bits on the arm and actually prefer it to putting it on my leg which isn't as easy to conceal and tends to be more visible with how I play as I go prone a lot. However the trade off is that I get friendly fired more than I get shot by the enemies, but as a ghillie who tries to keep my armband out of sight that is something I fully expect and encourage; if you're not sure on a ghillie's team, shoot first and ask later to be safe (unless it's super obvious they're on your team / they're actively waving or shouting at you and trying to get your attention). If they moan, maybe they shouldn't be using a ghillie as that's just part of it if they want to make their armband hard to see, which you want to do as a ghillie because bright blue or red or yellow doesn't blend in well with the UK woodland.

 

In terms of wearing it on the ankle, if the site allows it then you should be allowed to do so, but my earlier point still applies; if you're unsure, shoot the ghillie first unless it's obvious they're on your team.

I don't quite buy the 'super sneaky ghillie wearers should be allowed to conceal their armband as much as possible' viewpoint.  As someone who is sneaky and who tries to match camo to the site, the weather and the time of year (except for the Mimetico Deserto!), I have to put up with having a brightly coloured armband that sometimes gives my position and team away.  I don't try to hide it because I consider that to be unsporting and ungentlemanly.

It seems to be an example of what might be termed 'ghillie exceptionalism' to argue that the clear wearing of the team armband should not necessarily apply to folk who want to dress like a bush (not Kate, George or George W).

 

[Emergencychimps]

I agree with the consensus that if they were playing by any site specific rules then fair game. But I like it about as much as those players who put their arm band on their plate carrier/chest rig shoulder straps at the front so it can't be seen from behind, is it in the rules? possibly......is it within the spirit of the game, I don't think so. 

 

Ultimately I believe that the site should try to get them to be on any non-arm band team (assuming there is one) where possible and rebalance the team after, obviously if there are 10 + snipers it gets tricky. It's a tough role being an effective sniper and in an average skirmish I can imagine it can be dull or frustrating so I don't mind if they get a little help to add a different dynamic, without people doing that it would make the games more one dimensional. 

[BigStew]

I generally find gillihie suit wearers complain about getting shot by there own team alot for that reason.  My opinion is team tape should not be hidden and if you can't see it shoot them. 

[Adolf Hamster]

as others have said- if they don't have a band visible just shoot em.

 

that's the risk they're taking for adopting that playstyle, and if they get annoyed by friendly fire then that's a them problem.

[Tommikka]

Challenge or shoot.

The same applies to random players milling around in a ‘non agressive’ stance

 

We like to encourage sneaky players, so if you cannot identify a player (cannot see team colours) and they aren’t showing that they are eliminated (hand up, dead rag etc) then assume that they are active opposition

You are in your rights to point a gun at them & challenge them, tap them for a silent kill or shoot.

(All of the above are of course rule dependant)

 

I like the idea of team colours in clothing, but there will always be someone who decides to wear a DPM vest on a tan t-shirt.

Then for armbands you can wear them on both arms (so there’s no doubt of left/right arm - and it also allows for ripping off the arm bands to signify opposition, or in a compliant group you can have red left, blue right (so if you see the colour then you know, and if you don’t see the colour then you can work it out

(to a degree this could be used with removable arm bands on elimination - if you are red and don’t see a blue armband on the right then they are friendly or eliminated - but can still cause problems )

 

Ghillies etc don’t want an obvious colour showing - but they ought to be capable of disappearing if they are a ninja sniper.

If you can hide like a bush then you can tuck your elbow 

 

I dislike armbands on ankles, backs, vests, goggles etc.

If a player chooses to wear them on unusual places for added recognition (because they don’t like being shot in the back by friendlies) then they can wear extras ….. when they argue about wearing on their arm as well as their back then I know it’s a deliberate choice to avoid being identified from the front

[concretesnail]

Site rules apply but if its supposed to be an arm band it should remain an arm band. 

If the site doesn't object to the armband moving shoot on sight. 

[Druid799]

Sorry but if you put it on your ankle then your trying to hide it , which in my book = cheating .

Unless your playing on a tennis court 75% of the time it’s going to be concealed by the general plant life on site when your moving around , and unless your chosen shooting style is that of rifleman Plunkett shooting General Colbert during the retreat to Corunna then your legs will DEFINITELY be out of sight when your shooting from under cover .

[Cannonfodder]

Their site, their rules. However I do think it's a bit of a dick move. 

5 hours ago, colinjallen said:

As someone who is sneaky and who tries to match camo to the site, the weather and the time of year (except for the Mimetico Deserto!), I have to put up with having a brightly coloured armband that sometimes gives my position and team away.

Same here. I wonder how people would react if I started wearing said atmband on my ankle

[Tommikka]

24 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

…. rifleman Plunkett shooting General Colbert during the retreat to Corunna  ….

 

…. and the sneaky bugger was dressed in green - not playing fair

 

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Tommikka

[colinjallen]

1 hour ago, Cannonfodder said:

Their site, their rules. However I do think it's a bit of a dick move. 

Same here. I wonder how people would react if I started wearing said atmband on my ankle

Exactly; that is what I find hard to understand.  "Normal" players are supposed to wear their armband where it is clearly visible, whereas, in many cases, it is ok to conceal it once you start dressing as a shrubbery.

[Samurai]

As a bush, I say the rules apply to all. If I can wear it on my ankle, the non bushes can too. If I can hide it with my gear, they can too. Then it's a personal choice with its consequences.

I never wear it on my ankle, I'd get friendly fired too much, but I do prefer blue over red.

I do see it too many times that it is explicitly said to be an armband and non ghillies wear it on the front of their vest's shoulder strap. It's not about being in ghillie, it's about being a certain type of person.

[Badgerlicious]

It's easy enough to conceal the band from a particular direction if you put it on your forearm. Hiding it eslwhere is kinda dumb and I fully saction shooting the bush man if you can see a band. 

[Groot]

This site rule is dumb as fuck. 
 

It’s basically cheating as the cunt in the ghillie has an unfair advantage.

 

I’m actually not talking about the effectiveness of the ghillie.

I am referring to the time it takes for any player to decide if he is friend or foe. The cheatwookie on the other hand can see clear as anything your clear team marking.

That is hugely unfair and for the site owners to just say. Light them all up. Like I have seen at sites such as Reforger and a few others. Is equally fucking tarded. 
I’ve also seen an entire defence whipped out by a Ghillie exploiter, who just walked out of the forest. Behind them all and started shooting. Clearly no one had any clue he wasn’t on their side because his ankle band was covered by the fucking ghillie fabric hanging down. 

I am going to pack a tiny piece of hessian in my kit bag. Whenever I goto a site and they have this rule. I’m gonna stick it on. Declare myself Ghillied up and ankle up my arm band.

I suggest you all do the same. 

Also!!

 

Clearly..  I’m on one tonight

 

These Ghillie ankle twats all seem to run AEGs or cough “DMRs”

 

Should be a bolt action requirement in all situations 

[Impulse]

1 hour ago, Groot said:

These Ghillie ankle twats all seem to run AEGs or cough “DMRs”

 

Should be a bolt action requirement in all situations 

 

I think you mean Wolverine MTWs. That's what I've been noticing; it seems like most ghillies these days like to run MTWs or other HPA m4s. Or they take the piss and run things like ARP9s with drum mags (you know the type of gun...)

 

I somewhat agree with the bolt action sentiment as I do think that if you want to wear a ghillie you should be in that "sniper" role, though some people like to run 1.1J sniper rifle builds like my m21 and SR-25. Both locked to semi and both obviously "sniper rifles", but they're 1.1J semi autos. Also, if someone's running in a pair with one person running a regular rifle and one is running a bolt action I have no issue; there was a pair at Worthing doing that today, both in ghillies and clearly running sniper/spotter setup which I thought was brilliant and I'd love to get some time doing the same.

 

Problem is how would they police that, and where would sites draw the line. Works more at milsim or filmsim events where you're going to fill a specific role in a squad or a civpop/insurgent cell, but at skirmish games you'd have lots of people with scrimmed up MTWs with LPVOs saying "no, it's a sniper rifle, look!"

 

  

On 26/08/2022 at 23:04, Badgerlicious said:

It's easy enough to conceal the band from a particular direction if you put it on your forearm. Hiding it eslwhere is kinda dumb and I fully saction shooting the bush man if you can see a band. 

 

Also this. If I get to a position, I'm tucking my arm in tight whether I'm in a ghillie or not. Tucking the arm in tight makes it impossible to see the armband regardless of if you're wearing a ghillie or not, unless you happen to look at that player from the specific side where it may be visible but even then it could be concealed by foliage or a tree or something.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Impulse

[Badgerlicious]

I also meant *can't* see a band, but screw it, shoot 'em anyway. If they can be seen they're a bad ghillie 😈

[Sneaky]

At Red alert the arm bands stay in place, otherwise your asked to leave. Just means that all the players have to up their game with not being spotted, which is a challenge in its own right - and fun when it does work.  The snipers in ghillies that I know do an exceptional job to be concealed and still follow the rules. Can’t see it being an issue…..

[BigBell1987]

Perhaps put it on your pre game checklist to approach any Ghillies on your own TEAM and work with them, obviously they generally work alone but if a conversation can be had whereby you establish their general style of play and personal objectives etc or request that they support your squad from particular tactical positions and such then it would be less confusing and you just light up the rest, could also offer an advanced apology for the potential of friendly fire and give them an opportunity to say out loud no worries that's the risk we take.

 

In regards to band placement does it really matter when the suits fabric is going to cover it anyway? They spent a big budget on concealment let them have it, it ups the level of alertness and precaution you have to take and makes for more immersion in general. They get the advantage of concealment and a disadvantage of single shot bolt action fire etc which leads me to agree that if you wear a ghillie you should probably have to use a bolt action and a pistol to even it all out.