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On the odd time I’ve found someone wearing something in poor taste I’ve always made sure they were left with no doubt that they were hit Thankfully it’s been years since I’ve seen anyone being silly. Don’t chuck the sport in. Are there other sites you could try that have a better vibe?

Play to play. The "sport" is full of assholes, weekend warriors and wannabes, I just ignore them and wear my "I'M A SPACEMAN" patches, because we're playing cowboys and Indians in the woods (hey, I said bang and you didn't fall down!). Play for the fun and don't let dickheads stop your enjoyment of something.

When talking about civilians, you’re probably correct. This does not, however, account for any kind of preventative protection, or cops, who are also “Good Guys With Guns”. In many areas, a large percentage of people carry. Half my coworkers carry, and their wives. And my bosses. And their wives. And their parents. (Not their children ?) I’m in Central Texas, which is both a very gun-rich area, and a very safe area. This is not a hard fact, but cities and areas with stricter gun laws tend to be far less safe. I have been to every state and almost every major city in the USA—the areas that make it hard for citizens to defend themselves experience more violent crime. This is what I’ve seen from personal experience. Anyone can twist numbers to say what they want. Obviously there are people in the world and even in my city that I wouldn’t hand a loaded handgun to. But, who am I to arbitrarily make that decision? What if someone else arbitrarily decided that I shouldn’t be allowed to own a firearm? It’s a slippery slope, deciding who should be allowed to do what. I think I’ll agree with Colin; my view on these things is extremely simplistic. However, I see nothing wrong with that. I’m not an extremist of any wing trying to either set the 2nd amendment into iron, or to tear it down. I’m just an ordinary Joe who wants the ability to defend his family, and for his family to be able to defend themselves. I also don’t have any kind of political agenda—this is just an engaging discussion with me and a bunch of Brits on an online forum dedicated to shooting plastic balls at each other l. ?

Definitely the latter? But don't rush to quit, the dickheads rarely last....... Only to be replaced by a whole new kinda twat lol?

"Bad news from the Colonies, your majesty."

Popcorn.gif

Kinell The end times are upon us.

Popcorn intensifies.

I don’t think any of y’all Brits need to be getting angry over a discussion about American legislature for any reason… if anything I should be the angry one. ? …no point to having this discussion if it’s just going to make people go nuts…

I'm not having a go at anyone in particular, just disappointed a discussion has got personal. This is typically a happy place

I'd say both. They know exactly what they're doing and are only doing it for a reaction so can play the internet big man later, complaining about how snowflakes are upset by a bit of cloth. Imo the best way to deal with them is make sure the only attention they get is from a few extra bbs (especially to the more sensitive body parts). They're nothing more than attention whores who thrive on creating drama

The rest of the world, except maybe south Africa disagrees with you.?

Yeah well I gotta invisdible sheeld an, an, anyway my fingers were crossed so it don't count?

If they're shit, we'll go round to that Colin bloke's house and sort him ahhhhhhhhhhhhht!

There are two key points there …. “A few legitimate reasons” and “need” There is only ever a “need” for anything due to a “few legitimate reasons” There are valid “needs” for firearms, and there are also valid “wants” for firearms. Those are what the licencing process look at, and under the wider umbrella of firearms as defined by legislation there are those that do not require any licence/certificate/membership

At risk of seeming pedantic, the logic of the saying is apparent when one remembers that 'prove' and 'test' are synonyms e.g. proving ground/test ground meaning the same thing.

Honduras has a terrible murder rate and zero legal civilian gun ownership. Anyhow, whatever we discuss, be it cars, drugs, guns, or anything else; the simplist thing is that responsible nonviolent people pose no problem with them. I don't dick about with my controlled meds, wave rifs around where unsuitable or drive pissed. Same for the rest of us on here I'm sure. We collectively, through govts, regulate things because socialy regulating ourselves is impossible whilst the instrumental logic of our social relations and the resulting adherence to functionalism trumps the objective study of actual material conditions. Alienation is the result. Alienated people act in alienated ways. How it seems around the campfire two scotchs in anyhow. It also strikes me that concern with producing socialy healthy citizens is at least 2400 years old and we're not there yet by some measure. Not sure we'll solve it in this thread anyhow. 'Behave in a socialy responsible way, chin the cunts that don't.' Ghandi

Just not taking things seriously. This topic inevitably leads to disagreement, and we're on a forum for big kids. ?

If you didn't earn it, don't wear it.

You do realise that law abiding citizens carrying guns isn't the deterrent you think it is. Infact it's going to make the criminal more likely to carry and use a gun in crimes

You're correct it's not a hard fact. It's not even a soft and squishy fact, when you look at gun deaths per capita by state and compared to the level of firearm legislation it's a very different picture https://www.criminalattorneycincinnati.com/comparing-gun-control-measures-to-gun-related-homicides-by-state/ Yes, lies, damned lies and statistics, but when there is such an overwhelming volume of evidence in support of better gun control I'm still gobsmacked how many people say more gun laws make places LESS safe. As to your other point, from what I've gathered it seems that most of the people in favour of tighter gun control want just this; to stop that guy getting his hands on a gun. This pretty much sums it up:

Have you seen the requirements in Switzerland? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Switzerland despite being one of the most liberal sets of legislation, they have much tighter control on the sale of ammunition and the actual use of guns. The issue in the US isn't the guns, it's the fetishisation of gun culture among a relatively small section of society and the huge number of guns in the hands of criminals. Add to that a lobbying movement with huge coffers that has a vested interest in maintaining a multi-billion dollar industry and you end up with a country that offers little more than hopes and prayers when school kids get shot but woe betide you if you're not a straight, white, conservative. I think the most telling stories about guns come from people that have left the US for other countries and then one day suddenly realised that actually, maybe the rest of the world was right after all!

? This. I can't think of a single scenario that successfully moves the US away from tens of thousands of innocent people giving their life every year just so that others can have the right to own a gun on the off-chance they need to overthrow the government - let's not get into the debate that when they had the chance they opted to fight to keep a corrupt government in power, the exact opposite of what the second amendment is all about.

True. But in the preceding 27 years to Dunblane there were 17. 3 were terrorism. 1 was in Northern Ireland, where the law remains the same. So arguably, 12. The removal of access to pistols has reduced the occurrance by 3 in a nearly thirty year period. Don't get me wrong, three fewer is good. BUT People who are going to do bad things are going to do bad things. If you are of a mind to kill people, you are willing to break the law. Therefore the legality of access to firearms is irrelevant to you. In the UK nearly all gun crime is committed with illegally held firearms. The process of obtaining and keeping firearms in the UK is amongst the most stringent in the world, when applied correctly. There are failures, as in Plymouth, where the shooter should not have had a firearm. Even his own mother had pleaded with the Police to not return his gun. Failure to apply the law will not be changed by changing the law. Of course, you could outlaw all firearms. That means bye bye RIFS too. So long to air rifles, catapults, bows, crossbows.... stones? Screwdrivers? Chainsaws... The list is endless. If it's dangerous, it should be banned. There is more chance of you dying in the UK by crossing the road than there is of you being shot. If it's dangerous, should it be banned? Should we live our lives in cotton wool? No. That would be boring. As the philosopher DMX once said "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." p.s. apologies for the ramble, three kids and 4 dogs impeding concentration. p.p.s dogs kill people sometimes. They should probably all be banned. p.p.s kids kill people. They should probably be banned too. p.p.p.s Grown ups kill people... oh ffs

They see it as giving more ground to people who aren't really seeking gun registration, but whose end goal is eventually banning all private firearm ownership.

Careful now. Many people would apply the same argument to realistic imitation firearms. And would not consider "running around in the woods dressed up as a pretend soldier going 'Pew! Pew! Pew!'" to be a legitimate reason. We were only granted that as an afterthought, on a Ministerial whim that could be withdrawn at any time. Back on topic, I do agree that this looks like a lot of doom-mongering over a tiny orange band, when airsoft toys seem to come fitted with full orange muzzle devices in the Colonies right now. On a strict reading, you could even paint a bit of orange on the barrel of a pistol that's fully recessed inside the slide, since there's no requirement for it to be visible. However, the kicker might be the interpretation of "manufacture", if it's interpreted to meaning removing or covering up the day-glo. The lawyers will win, as always.

That is neither a ban on imports nor a requirement for them to be either transparent plastic or non-real looking colours. A 6mm orange band on the muzzle meets the requirements. As for the testing regime, a "reasonable testing program" is required but what constitutes reasonable is not defined. It is up to the manufacturer or "private labeler" to certify that the product meets the requirement of having the required marking. This would probably not be an onerous requirement.

Most of the developed world moved way beyond that incredibly simplistic view a long time ago. Unfortunately, I suspect that there are so many guns in circulation in the USA that you are truly fucked. You have created an armed, aggressive and fearful society with appallingly poor education and mental health provision, resulting in a situation where a reasonably large number of schoolchildren are going to be killed in mass shootings every year. But hey, that's a price worth paying for Billy Bob to own his penis extension.

Everything that you read or are told regarding legislation is subject to interpretation, even reading the words directly from legislation is subject to your personal interpretation …. And you need more than just the legislation itself….. if you read the VCRA itself there is no defence that permits airsofters to have RIFs, but there is a provision for additional defences via statutory instrument and one such document exists for airsoft skirmishing On a fine point myself and @Rogerborghave agreed to disagree for some considerable time, but a case has occurred, the results of the case match his interpretation therefore we can still happily disagree on our personal interpretations but the case disagrees with me. My interpretation is now wrong - unless a subsequent case occurs and the lawyers can prove that the circusmtances differ sufficiently to tip the interpretation over The black belt barrister is a barrister, and whenever he interprets the law he makes the statement that he is making a general interpretation on the basis of his opinion and not giving legal advice. If you employ him and provide your circumstances then he will give legal advice (unless he does not feel able to) In my subject area of paintball I do own guns that would meet the definition of RIF, and I have both bought & modified them. Back in the day that the VCRA was a bill the airsoft industry got involved and the UKARA was born, paintballs UKPSF were well established as a body dealing with the Home Office. Justifying paintball RIFs were not something worth fighting for and the Home Office, police etc were not interested. Paintball never gained a defence, but it was put in writing that air / co2 propelled paintball guns were air weapons, which meant they were firearms, but with energy below 12 ft lbs (or 6 ft lbs where applicable) they were low power air weapons which provided they were used with frangible paintballs their ‘lethality’ is fine for shooting each other. As air weapons are firearms then they aren’t imitation firearms, and therefore can neither be an IF or a RIF. (But as mentioned above where I and Rogerborg agree to disagree - case law now shows that a firearm can now be interpreted as an imitation firearm) All fine and nothing to worry about ….. except for a little hiccup when a company received a study visit from the Association of Chief Police officers - the company were told it’s fine, but word for word interpretation might cover black paintball guns as RIFs, and there is no defence for paintball. The study group gave feedback that they were not going to act upon that interpretation, but recommended the company should ‘do something about it’ like VCRA. So they did, and produced a short lived membership scheme. No action ever occurred I used my UKPSF membership as part of an import declaration - I declared that the package was not a RIF, but here are my UKPSF details and it’s my intent to use the contents at scenario paintball events - who knows if they accepted my ‘defence’ or just stopped at ‘no it’s not a RIF’? Now to the last few years. People are trying to buy ‘self defence’ / ‘home defence’ versions of paintball guns, which are over powered and get used with non frangible balls. Some are flagged by retailers / importers and sales are refused, others try for direct import and are found by customs and/or incidents occur and the police find them on the street, in beside drawers etc loaded and aired up etc (some threads on here may reflect some of these occurrences) The UKPSF get contacted by the Home Office/ police / border force & customs They remain content with paintball but are not happy with these items - the UKPSF have a rethink on relying on the old Home Office interpretation on the frangible / lethality clause and commissions legal review - this recommends not relying on the clause but does come up with arguments that the ‘intention’ of the law could go for UKPSF membership and ‘skirmishing’ albeit that the special instrument covers airsoft skirmishing Things are afoot in the UK paintball industry and sphincters twitch - a case would give us the answer, but may or may not give the answer we want The non compliance of two tone colours fits in ( or just the amount of cover but also the colours themselves which should be bright) - but they’ve not followed the spirit of the law but just paid it lip service (whereas JustCos is just a made up situation with no intent to comply - the comicon that tied to the JustCos insurance does not permit RIFs with cosplay) Again a case would answer, but no one wants to be the test case As a general rule in life always treat advice / information on its own merits The legal areas on this forum have good information, but they are the opinion/interpretation of the poster at that time Direct legislation quotes are just that - direct quotes, which still needs interpretation against circumstances and also is very likely to miss out the other sections, other pieces of legislation and any case law Don’t be a dick, don’t get caught being a dick and don’t be a test case

This is sort of a "How did your airsoft day go" post, but I might as well have this new thread as a repository for future tales of success / woe / dumb questions I bought this little beauty as a proper (two-toned) boneyard item quite a while ago. It shot, but it had a particularly grindy motor with an awful, wheezy RoF only helped to something like normality by banging an 11.1v battery on it. (Not a great long term plan, given the lack of MOSFET). But it showed potential because it seemed quite accurate during the couple of times I tried it out. I started the search for a replacement medium length motor... and found they're quite rare - £45 brand new - and I didn't think it was worth spending that much money on. Luckily I found one on eBay for a bargain price... buuuuuuut I managed to kill it when I fitted it (still not sure how). Up to the loft went poor little Siggy. Well, as I'm metaphorically (and occasionally actually) twiddling my thumbs I thought I'd have another crack at it. Even if it was just back with the original motor, as a garden plinker. Plumbed in the knackered motor and a battery. Smoke. No-worky. Then a good bit of luck for a change - I found an old TM medium length motor I didn't know I had. I swallowed the necessary Brave Pill and took Siggy apart. It may have been the act of cracking the gearbox but the internals weren't in their proper places. I put everything back in place, only swore at the trigger a little bit. And then spent an awful long time routing the cables around so they wouldn't get nipped or cut. Had to take the body apart and retry several times... it's a bitch of a job because the cables always seem to find a way to move as you slide the receiver into place, and they get snagged. Again. And again. But eventually... all back together. And the darned thing works. Properly! As an added bonus it still seems to shoot straight (only a couple of shots in the garden as the neighbours are out enjoying the sun) AND it's banging out 0.20s at 345fps. Result! Now I need to do some proper accuracy / hop testing, to see if it's skirmishable. If it is, I need some mags for it.

To some, yes, which is almost what this is about really isn’t it? ?

Watching the news tonight, where Donald Trump has just been charged with 37 counts of the same thing (but worse) for which he vilified Hilary Clinton with the "lock her up" chants... And then Boris Johnson giving Rees-Mogg and Priti Patel knighthood and Damehood.... ... has made me irrationally angry tonight. Fuck the lot of them.

"Don't be a dick" or "Don't be a genital" are a set of universal rules that trump most religions and philosophies for how to deal with life the universe and everything. Its a shame our political classes and traffic wardens haven't been introduced to them.

Mr Chewer plainly angling for most positive feedback of the day ???

I’m not upset in the slightest. I was simply attempting to lighten the mood—these discussions can make people angry, sometimes understandably, and when everyone’s angry, the discussion becomes pointless. We can have a good discussion with point and counterpoint, or we can have folks getting mad at each other and getting nowhere. Tackle mentioned the American firearm situation first. Skullchewer has the right idea. He’s clearly the smartest one here.

Words and thoughts to live by.

If you’re able to cut an o-type shaft, you can make yourself a medium motor out of any long type. Cut the motor down the same way.

By that "logic", I don't think you should be assuming it's only Brits responding ? ... and you're the one who effectively brought gun control / 2A into an airsoft discussion... Can't do a thing like that then cry when people respond to it ?

I remember when you called me a cunt twice.Has your anger and self control got better? ??

You are a rif tech now.? Good work ?

Enough to make me want to go get a TM Spas now ?

Pull your head in, old boy; your angry man syndrome is showing. AI legislation and firearms legislation are two completely different situations. The former is a new and rapidly developing area and all governments are looking at its potential impact and how to prevent it growing out of control; it is not a case of "follow my leader". Do you really think that a US requirement to have markings on imitation firearms and some form of testing programme for the same is going to impact your right to own a firearm in the UK? I did NOT say that nobody needs a firearm; I said that, outside a few legitimate reasons, nobody in the UK needs a firearm; if you are going to argue with me, at least try to argue with what I have said. I stand by what I said; there are very few people in the UK who need a firearm. Your car argument is utterly infantile; cars serve a useful purpose in transporting people. As such, they are useful tools. In the UK, firearms are only useful tools for very, very few people. Comparing airsofters with Dietrich Bonhoeffer is utterly ridiculous and massively insulting to someone who had the guts to stand up to one of the most vile regimes in modern history. Give your head a shake.

Glad to say that I've had no issues with any of the sites I've played at. Look around find a better field to play at.

I do theme games at a club that has a great vibe but they're few and far between. Maybe I should do more there and a change of gear from cqb based to outdoor is on the cards.

While I don't doubt this for a second, and it's exactly what I'd expect from being one of Those CB Users back in the day, I do feel compelled to get all nasally and adenoidal and demand "Source? Source?"

Just treated myself to a Ferro Slickster, cannot recommend Ferro enough tbh. (Bonus patch pic below)

Latest purchase, Zoxna V2 mini launcher. The barrel diameter is pretty much spot on for the pulse rifle underslung. I'll need to mount the front part of the underslung differently as at the moment it opens to allow battery fitting. Then mount the Zoxna . Will require some faffing about but will be worth it to have the pulse rifle launcher working.