Am I the ass hole?

[Musica]

Morning folks,

 

I was going to buy something of another forum user but the deal has turned sour and I am curious on people's opinions on the matter. Perhaps I'm in the wrong or maybe we are both at fault you can decide! 

 

Here is the listing

 

I first sent an offer for £28 as if you don't ask you don't get. It was rejected which is fair enough that's the point of an offer. I then started a DM with the seller offering to pay the price adverised see below:

 

 

So I left him negative feedback for negotating in bad faith given he has another buyer ready to pay him and he is breaking paypals user agreement by surcharging me the fees.

 

 

So he has left me feedback this morning as a tit for tat type thing.

 

I am not sure how he knows about my big feet! So you guys have all the interactions so you can now judge am being unresoanble here ? Hope you enjoyed a bit of light drama.

 

 

[Super64]

Personally when I advertise stuff I usually make it clear that the price includes PayPal and postage fees. In this case quango2k hasn’t mentioned PayPal, just delivery. So it does leave room for confusion. As it is advised that all transactions go via PayPal I can see why you would expect PayPal fees to be included in his price. But once it is clear that the PayPal fees are extra, if you didn’t want to pay the extra, personally I would have left it at that. Thanks, but no thanks. I feel that posting a bad review was probably an unnecessary step to far. I wouldn’t necessarily say either of you were being an asshole, just a situation that could probably have been dealt with better.

[Groot]

[Cr0-Magnon]

Personally I'm not sure how I feel about negative sales feedback when a transaction hasn't actually completed. Maybe I'm bias though, as that's the only type I've received.

 

In answer to your question, should/could the seller have made it clear Paypal fees weren't included, as the general rule around here is to only pay via goods and services - yes. Were you a bit hasty - yes.

[Rogerborg]

It's lazy and irksome when sellers spring PayPal fees on you, although hardly uncommon.  It's also against PayPal's T&Cs for business sellers, which it rather seems that he might be.

 

And I agree with asking for an invoice.  It doesn't seem like this chap is dodgy, but then the best scammers never seem that way.

 

Personally I'd like it if AFUK required sellers to list an all inclusive price including postage and PayPal fees, given that's how the majority of transactions are going to happen.  And it wouldn't be rocket surgery to provide a fees calculator, at 2.9% + 30p for Sterling-to-Sterling.

 

Disappointingly small spat though, I don't see anyone being offered out behind the circus tent.

[Lozart]

Honestly, the whole thing is pretty bloody childish.

 

On the one hand he should be clear what the price includes (as should ALL advertisers), on the other hand you tried to low ball him which isn't going to make you his priority customer. The listing doesn't say "or near offer" or "open to offers".

 

The whole tit for tat feedback thing straight off the mark is where it gets stupid though. You both make yourselves look like kids there, there's no need for it. Pay the money or don't, arguing over £1.20 is just ridiculous.

[Guest KiloGr]

Was tempted to press yes without reading the post first;

 

No, if he said 30 posted he should stick to it, no matter over 1 or 2 pounds.  Its the principle.

[Rogerborg]

4 minutes ago, Lozart said:

Honestly, the whole thing is pretty bloody childish.

 

The entire hobby?  

[Lozart]

1 minute ago, Rogerborg said:

 

The entire hobby?  

 

Well....yeah. Let's be honest.

 

I suppose I try and look at it like the rugby vs football thing (a hooligans game played by gentleman) whereby it's a kids game played by grown ups but the more I see the more I realise that just isn't so.

[DestrO]

i do find ironic:

 

 

when charging the buyer the fees is against paypals ToS...

[quango2k]

Over x100 sales on this forum and you are the ONLY person that has ever complained about paying a PP fee. 

 

I don't include it in the cost in case you want to pay by another method which several people have done in the past and I have had zero problems. 

 

Being petty enough to leave me bad feedback even though you have not PURCHASED anything from me for the sake of £1.20, then raising a voting thread over it is as childish and pathetic as you could ever be. 

 

I even agreed to get it to you fast, which would cost me more in shipping/tracking etc but you were penny pinching. I owe you no favours, I owe you nothing and I am not strapped for cash. If you don't want to pay £1.20, jog on, someone else will. Leaving feedback over it is pathetic. (FYI, I see the irony in that last sentence considering I also left feedback..but what can I say, this has got my back up) 

 

YOU are the instigator here, you could have just walked on, but you chose to act like a child and start this all off. Starting a thread titles "Am I the asshole" meaning Or is it this guy because he didn't give in to my demands..sorry pal, asshole move. 

 

21 minutes ago, DestrO said:

i do find ironic:

 

 

when charging the buyer the fees is against paypals ToS...

 

IF you are a business seller, I am not a business. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by quango2k

[Adolf Hamster]

trying to haggle an offer is fine, and £28 doesn't seem to be an insultingly low value imo.- not an asshole

 

likewise refusing offers isn't really an issue. -not an asshole

 

agreeing to original pricing because you still want it is fine too. -not an asshole

 

putting paypal fee's on top of a listed price. -it shoulda been part of the listed price or at least made clear one way or the other, so kinda an asshole maybe but not in a big way.

 

leaving feedback on a sale that didn't go through? - sorry but that's an asshole move

 

tit for tat feedback- you attack someone can't blame em for responding.

 

 

overall verdict- seller should have simply included paypal fee's in original price (or at least been clear on what the deal was). any time i list a posted price that is the all-in and if i get a few £ less than that because of paypal fees well that's the cost of a safe payment service you can use with random internet strangers. however you should have just walked away and called it at that.

 

i'll be honest, i'd have just paid the fees. indeed i have done it voluntarily when an ad asks for f&f i just pay goods and services with a little extra to cover the fees, i think of it as insurance should something go south.

[Tackle]

[Cr0-Magnon]

I blame Steve Glennie.

[kasaran]

44 minutes ago, DestrO said:

i do find ironic:

 

 

when charging the buyer the fees is against paypals ToS...

 

Also apparently isn't desperate for the money, but damn he is fighting hard for that extra £1.20.   

 

 

[Speedbird_666]

39 minutes ago, quango2k said:

I don't include it in the cost in case you want to pay by another method which several people have done in the past and I have had zero problems.

 

Perhaps a simple line 'Buyer covers PayPal fees' in the listing could avoid any issues like this in future?

 

I think the OP was out of order leaving negative feedback on a transaction that didn't happen - that's a really dick move.

 

 

 

[Musica]

39 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

leaving feedback on a sale that didn't go through? - sorry but that's an asshole move

 

Yeah perhaps that is where I went too ?.  If I can remove this or an admin can I'm happy for it.

 

His response however calling me names and saying I don't understand how paypal works seemed enough drama to give you guys a laugh ?. His statements are false I never feel I demanded an invoice off him I just told him if he wanted me to buy the item I will pay an invoice for it at £30. I went and purchased a brand new item for £50 as it's not the money that I cared about it's the princple.

[quango2k]

11 minutes ago, kasaran said:

 

Also apparently isn't desperate for the money, but damn he is fighting hard for that extra £1.20.   

 

 

There's a difference between selling fast and losing out, or just waiting as someone will pay. I don't need the money, just as much as I don't need to give it away.  His whining over £1.20 just made me more likely to not give in, which also did the same for him apparently lol.  It was priced cheap as it is, way better quality than a lot of the crap sold in the UK. 

 

8 minutes ago, Speedbird_666 said:

 

Perhaps a simple line 'Buyer covers PayPal fees' in the listing could avoid any issues like this in future?

 

I think the OP was out of order leaving negative feedback on a transaction that didn't happen - that's a really dick move.

 

 

 

 

Never needed it for the 100+ other items I have sold on here but I guess I will have to! 

 

I've messaged Jedi to get both the feedbacks removed. This all is a massive waste of time when he could have just moved on instead of leaving feedback and posting this bullshit thread. I would have just got on with my day, but that's me! 

 

All this shit lol..for £1.20. Jeez

[Groot]

I always give buyers the option to transfer the money to me directly or paypal as friends of family.

Weirdly they like to pay more for the protection. 

[Skullchewer]

Sounds like assholery occurred on both sides to me. But if a sale wasn't to my liking I'd just move on, I wouldn't be a dick about it.

[Tackle]

7 hours ago, Skullchewer said:

Sounds like assholery occurred on both sides to me. But if a sale wasn't to my liking I'd just move on, I wouldn't be a dick about it.

Amen. 

 

Question to @quango2k, has it sold ?, did you have another buyer also trying to buy the item at the same time as @Musica, as he's inferring ? 

 

Edit: i asked the question because a real bugbear of mine, & it's happened a couple of times, is when you've started a conversation with someone regarding a sale, their responses indicate its available to you & your just waiting for them to send their PayPal details, & then they go quiet, prompting me to "nudge" them with a pm or two over the next 24hrs, made even more aggravating by the fact they've read messages & not responded, & then the sale item gets marked as sold, & I'm like "WTF MAN", & have been pissed off enough to contemplate shitty feedback, if nothing else for their lack of manners/courtesy?

Edited March 30, 2022 by Tackle

[Steveocee]

Should have split the difference and gone 60p each.

[Skullchewer]

And this guy had entirely good feedback until Musica complained about something he didn't buy.

Definitely a dick move to my mind.

Yes, maybe the PayPal fees should have been mentioned in the advert, or at least the advert should have been worded better, but still seems like you're being overly dickish, musica.

 

[Cannonfodder]

To me both sides look a bit childish and silly

[Musica]

16 minutes ago, Skullchewer said:

And this guy had entirely good feedback until Musica complained about something he didn't buy

All his good feedback doesn't negate any bad feedback. It seems the opinion on here is the feedback section should only be used for sales that went through as apposed to rating the seller (or buyer) so I've said my bad on that and offered for admins to remove it but I stand by  what my feedback says. He sprung the fees on me after I agreed to the £30 advertised price so long as he posted it resonably quickly so I could have it by the 10th of April. Just feels like negotiating in bad faith to me so I wasn't wanting involved and I don't know why but him mentioning he had another buyer ready to pay didn't sit right with me either.

 

43 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Question to @quango2k, has it sold ?, did you have another buyer also trying to buy the item at the same time as @Musica, as he's inferring ? 

 

Don't know why you think I am inferring anything it's what HE told me.