Not taking hits?

[Standbystandby]

Hey people, I'm still new to airsoft and still learning. One thing I have heard/read a lot about is people not calling their hits. I haven't been airsofting for long so have never experienced it! What's the view of the guys/girls who have been playing for a while? How common is it? And what do you think airsoft could do to stamp out cheating? Interested in your views!

[Standbystandby]

Posted in the wrong forum...sorry don't know how to move it!

[Colonel Kurtz]

Airsoft relies on people taking their hits, otherwise it'd devolve into a sadomasochistic event where people just shoot each other until someone uses the safety-word or has to change their underpants.

 

In my experience, everyone who plays airsoft regularly has the right idea about taking hits and how to behave in their mind. However, many people aren't used to adrenaline, or any shade of combat, and many people can behave in a manner they're hopefully embarrassed about once the juices get going. People can get trapped in the moment, and the most common kind of non-hit-taking i witness is those who don't acknowledge the hit until their current purpose has been completed (like the person they're shooting at taking the hit). Then the logic side of the brain takes back over from caveman and order ensues.

 

There's nothing airsoft can do to stamp it out other than turning it into laser-quest, or making everyone use tracers, or have 1 marshal per person like in some those mental Japanese tournaments I've seen online.

 

The best thing the community can do is to make the process of taking the hit seem easier and more enjoyable. This is achieved by all those good-sporting types who congratulate people when hit and cheerfully skip back to re-spawn. Kudos to you all, I try, but sometimes barely able to squeak 'hit' let alone any kind of congrats (the arm goes up with a raised thumb on reflex now, I've beaten the paintball urge to check my clothing for marks finally hehe)

[Josh95]

Airsoft relies on people taking their hits, otherwise it'd devolve into a sadomasochistic event where people just shoot each other until someone uses the safety-word or has to change their underpants.

 

In my experience, everyone who plays airsoft regularly has the right idea about taking hits and how to behave in their mind. However, many people aren't used to adrenaline, or any shade of combat, and many people can behave in a manner they're hopefully embarrassed about once the juices get going. People can get trapped in the moment, and the most common kind of non-hit-taking i witness is those who don't acknowledge the hit until their current purpose has been completed (like the person they're shooting at taking the hit). Then the logic side of the brain takes back over from caveman and order ensues.

 

There's nothing airsoft can do to stamp it out other than turning it into laser-quest, or making everyone use tracers, or have 1 marshal per person like in some those mental Japanese tournaments I've seen online.

 

The best thing the community can do is to make the process of taking the hit seem easier and more enjoyable. This is achieved by all those good-sporting types who congratulate people when hit and cheerfully skip back to re-spawn. Kudos to you all, I try, but sometimes barely able to squeak 'hit' let alone any kind of congrats (the arm goes up with a raised thumb on reflex now, I've beaten the paintball urge to check my clothing for marks finally hehe)

I have to admit, there have been times when I have been hit and in the split second I dont notice it and shoot the other guy. Not because Im cheating but because of what you said. always feel bad about it after tho

[Dannn]

If the really did notice it, give them a chance if it happens on a number of occasions Make sure you and all your team play "aim to maim" empty a full mag into any bare piece of skin you can as close as possible at the soonest oppetunity you can, just to remind them not to cheat.

[ImTriggerHappy]

The biggest reason for non hit taking is the amount of gear people wear. Some people have so much kit and protection on they just dont feel it. I am sure there must have been times when someone has hit my mag pouches and I havent felt it but others take it to the extreme with thick plate carriers and even backpacks and dont get me started on the hard shell crowd.

If people would just thin down their gear it wouldnt be such an issue.

[n1ckh]

The biggest reason for non hit taking is the amount of gear people wear. Some people have so much kit and protection on they just dont feel it. I am sure there must have been times when someone has hit my mag pouches and I havent felt it but others take it to the extreme with thick plate carriers and even backpacks and dont get me started on the hard shell crowd.

If people would just thin down their gear it wouldnt be such an issue.

 

I'll agree with that, my PC has what I need & sometimes I haven't felt anything but theres times when it's pinged off my helmet or rifle or even a ricochet of a tree or something but most times they hit everywhere else where I can't deny it

[Samurai]

That's no excuse. If you can't feel it, you still can hear it.

[jeffery7466]

However, many people aren't used to adrenaline, or any shade of combat, and many people can behave in a manner they're hopefully embarrassed about once the juices get going. People can get trapped in the moment, and the most common kind of non-hit-taking i witness is those who don't acknowledge the hit until their current purpose has been completed (like the person they're shooting at taking the hit). Then the logic side of the brain takes back over from caveman and order ensues.

 

 

You have my thanks sir. I've been trying to put that ...feeling into words for a while. I must admit I am guilty of this more than I would like to, in fact I am convinced that I now have a reputation amongst the marshals at The Mall, or maybe I am just paranoid.

[Baz JJ]

Its a common problem.

 

Some sites are better than others in that some dont care too much or have favourite cliques which can do no wrong.

 

Without naming names, Ive seen some sites come down very hard with schoolboy talkings to and marshals shooting suspects anonymously to see if the accused really are guilty.

 

The only way to do something about it is to vote with your feet. If you experience it, complain to the organisers.

 

If it doesnt get sorted in a reasonable time frame, play somewhere else.

[ImTriggerHappy]

 

You have my thanks sir. I've been trying to put that ...feeling into words for a while. I must admit I am guilty of this more than I would like to, in fact I am convinced that I now have a reputation amongst the marshals at The Mall, or maybe I am just paranoid.

You are probably just paranoid. If the marshalls had any issues one of the head marshalls would probably have had a quiet word with you. They are pretty hot on cheating there and dont play any sort of favourites.

Dont have much of an issue with hit taking there but I always use tracers.

[BrightCandle]

I don't personally find I have an issue with people not calling hits. Now I have a scope with 4x on it I get to see where my BBs are landing and most of the time I am missing, its either just falling short or the spread at maximum range is a bit too wide due to the wind or whatever that just forces them to miss. Just occasionally you do hit someone centre mass and they don't call it and I strongly suspect that is the gear. I don't think I have actually met a "cheater", all of them have been accidental due to plate carriers and such. When your moving you just don't hear BB strikes, it doesn't take much movement to obscure the noise of an impact and its the main reason I don't like wearing anything on my chest. I don't find at the sites I play at that hit taking is an issue, what I find is that where there is an issue is usually just too much gear and noise.

[Esoterick]

I don't think i've been to a game where there haven't been at least a couple of people cheating. The problem always is that cheaters will always start taking their hits the minute a marshal stands near them, the best solution is to get marshals to test shoot people. They just need to not be dopey and test shoot the same person 5 times in a day, otherwise people will understandably get pissed off.

 

As far as gear goes, i dunno about anyone else but I most commonly get shot in the arms and face as you have to expose them to shoot. I have seen much more of a link between non hit taking and the person being a cheat than anything gear related.

 

It's already been mentioned that a lot of the hit taking accusations end up just being people not in range. I used to do this but now only chalk it up to cheating if I am well in range and can generally see the shots bouncing. When I run my LMG I generally keeping shooting people until they put their hand up. I've had multiple instances of marshals actually telling the other players to take their hits or to make it clear they are hit if they don't want to keep being shot.

 

Generally speaking though it's not too much of a problem, just calmly report people including what they are wearing to marshals. If nothing really gets done it might be worth considering another site.

[Colonel Kurtz]

I think gear doesn't make a big diff if it's static woodland play with people mostly hiding behind trees. You have the space, lack of distraction and movement to ensure you're aware you've been hit and then it's a conscious choice. Any keen snipers out there will probably beg to differ, and fully appreciate that if people aren't aware they're under attack from a direction then clothing can be a huge hindrance to them feeling a hit.

 

However CQB at places like The Mall, there's far too much noise, chaos and far too much running around.

 

Often have issues with people in all the gear not feeling hits. It happens when they're stood still, but that's mostly due to me shooting them on the edges of their person due to them being to big in said outfit to fully fit/hide behind things, or me shooting them from a direction they're not paying attention to, and it hitting any part of the clothing/kit too thick to instantly feel pain from, then it takes several hits to get their attention.

 

The main time people in lots of gear seem to universally not feel hits is when they're running/jogging, the whole setup is bashing against them and making so much noise/friction against the skin they can't tell if a 6mm plastic ball hit them or not unless you hit them many times or get a lucky shot in an Achilles heal of the outfit. I think for anyone it can be hard to feel a hit when you're running, it's just having a thick pile of clothing on definitely significantly reduces your odds of an already tough thing to notice.

 

The only solution i found to this is overkill, anyone running gets a total peppering until they stop and raise their hand, you can tell when someone has felt the hit and is in the process of doing so, so i try not to be too brutal. This is when I mainly get the added ROF use out of my high-cycle TM's, spraying people dashing between doorways. I don't think I've seen a single person in full combat gear take the hit based on the first BB that hit them while they're jogging/running, it takes the noise or pain from a burst of full-auto.

 

I don't want to have to waste time firing half a dozen shots at someone for them to feel it, in all the common scenarios mentioned above, this extra time spent shooting them more than once is usually what results in me being shot, either by their immediate team-mates or by someone in another group who's attention i just gained. What really fucks me off is when i've snuck into a room with a bunch of guys, then i only have time to give them one or two shots each before they can turn and fire back. Every single damn time one of them wont feel it because I've hit their PC or similar, and will shoot back at me as they only heard the noise of me firing. Then i have to take the hit and my act of sneaky awesomeness denied, because trying to argue 'no you were already hit' is generally pointless. Sometimes if I'm trying to rush through somewhere I don't take the hit due to them already being hit, but then I'm left feeling dirty like i cheated from their repeated glances to see if i was taking the hit or not...

 

I don't think there's anything to be done about it, shouldn't ban plate carriers and the like or anything, everyone needs to carry their mags around somehow. Just wish people were more self-aware and if they have enough experiences of not noticing they were hit then that they were prepared to look for lighter alternatives like a belt and only carrying enough kit to last one game rather than a nuclear apocalypse

[beastmode]

I've started to make a consertive effort now to not shoot people in the chest/plate carrier as so many people don't feel it. I now shoot people in the legs so they actually feel the hit and usually take it. Frustrating as it's a smaller target but needs must.

[two_zero]

I dont think anyone* deliberately not taking hits.


Thou yea, there is a crowd of people that carries more gear than what is needed in airsoft, hence do not feel a lot of hits.

[ikarma70]

Aim at the legs and then they will feel it!

[Sitting Duck]

Yup I'll admit to delayed reaction when pumped up

 

Group of people screaming at me OK ffs I didn't recognise it in that split second coz I couldn't work out where it came from.

 

A fortnight ago one bb must have grazed my top arm so much I called it but asked a marshal if he had hit tested me but said no, like I said I called it already and was obviously enemy just just grazed me to think it came from marshal on my left side.

 

End of the day, don't take it too seriously or get too worked up about it all. Then you just call it even if unsure

 

Which is the exactly what airsoft relies upon

 

Don't get too stressed if you see a bb bounce of an enemy, just tell yourself they need a two hit handicap and go for the second shot, followed by the rest of you mag until the bastid calls it.

 

Seriously, all sites the odd incident or dubious player(s)

Kids rental or noobs usually but you do get the odd veteran from time to time. If it bothers you or gets too much and marshals do little then try another site coz numerous non-hit takers can really ruin game/fun or even a site's reputation

 

I hopefully play as fair as possible hopefully just calling it at times that it might be rebound

If I feel 2 shots that were most likely to be rebounds I call it just in case it was a direct hit I haven't seen

 

Well that the way I think/play with my hand on heart

[Randymanpipe]

One word. RENTALS. That is all.

[ImTriggerHappy]

One word. RENTALS. That is all.

What has rentals got to do with none hit taking?

[n1ckh]

That's no excuse. If you can't feel it, you still can hear it.

Not always

 

As said in above posts, there's more than 1 reason to not hearing/feeling a hit

 

Some sites say if it hits your weapon then your out but others say if it hits your body (including what your wearing) then your out, if it's a richocet then your out so it's always good to confirm in the briefing what actually constitutes an "out/hit"

[Randymanpipe]

They are the worst for bullet proof rambo running through hails of bb's with total disregard for any rules/sportsmanship. Ended up avoiding area last week where the group of rentals were as it was getting ridiculous.

[Sitting Duck]

I think we would like to blame rental noobs

and yup seen crazy crap like lifting masks in middle of game

 

I could say a fair percentage are the younger players - perhaps young rental noobs

 

But there is also some veterans or older players taking it way too seriously

 

no way did that little 12yr old JBBG $hit take out me & my TM mofo gun

little $hit was camping I'm not having that so close to objective.....

 

But non-hit takers are not the biggest ar$eholes.....

 

I think the gobby players abusing other younger team members, screaming & bitching

then doing the same mouthing off to marshals when they pull them up looks a lot worse

 

Seriously - You look real bell-ends, despite that some players/marshals may not be perfect either

but causing a scene only makes it worse and in then end it is just a game with toy guns - nowt to stress out over

 

that said - if I got a bit pumped up or had an internal hissy fit myself I'm sorry to anybody seeing me throw my dummy

I think I've tried to mellow out a bit and see it as a "fun" sport rather than a "win" sport

[ImTriggerHappy]

They are the worst for bullet proof rambo running through hails of bb's with total disregard for any rules/sportsmanship. Ended up avoiding area last week where the group of rentals were as it was getting ridiculous.

As I have said before the worst cheats are always the guys who think that they are SAS super leet airsoft operators, the sort that think that they are too good to have to follow normal rules. They are the ones who look down on people who dont have gucci kit, always slag off rentals and complain that the site rules are wrong and the marshals are idiots who dont know what they are doing.

You can normally find them hanging around at the back telling everyone to push up while hiding away from taking any hits themselves but always say they were just playing tactical. I really hate them.

As for rentals we were all one once and without them there would be no airsoft.

So instead of bitching offer guidance and help them out because they are quite often the best teammates you can have.

[jcheeseright]

I generally tend to aim for legs arms or faces, even with full face protection a whack in the boat race is enough to make most people call it.