Told to leave site (Anzio)...

[Cannonfodder]

On 04/07/2022 at 07:54, concretesnail said:

 

I appreciate that what has happened with the OP and his friend is never going to feel good but it is a policy that is try to prevent what has happened in the past reoccurring

He's got every right to be pissed off. Chronoing with any weight other than what is used in game is fucking stupid and pointless as it achieves nothing, apart from making the site owner look like a twat. To me it's like getting a speeding ticket just because your car can go over 70, not because you did. 

 

What has happened in the past to cause the site to introduce this stupid policy? 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Cannonfodder

[Tackle]

But it not even a proper "policy", its massively flawed, & policed by an idiot who's only qualification is that he's the "Boss", & woe betide anyone who questions otherwise. 

As always the only way it will be addressed is if people start to vote with their feet, give him a few gamedays with barely any revenue, & also get word out there of this screw-up so that hopefully the staff become aware, not only of the communities displeasure but also to educate them about where they're going wrong & how best to correct it. 

Yep the guys a dick & yes he needs Karma to give him a wake up call, loss in revenue will probably give him the biggest wake up call, but no one, me included wants to see any more half decent venues lost for whatever the reason, so if anyone knows him or his staff, give a nudge & a link to this thread, if he comes on in "God mode" we'll rip him a new one, or maybe he'll learn something new (if he's prepared to) 😏

[Adolf Hamster]

13 hours ago, Druid799 said:

The one giant elephant in the room I’ve not seen mentioned yet is the actual chrono’s being used and how accurate they are ? was the gun re-chrono’ed on the same chrono or a different one ? When was the last time anyone checked them to see if there actually recording accurately or not ? As I (like many others I’m sure) am frequently quite bemused by the variation in the upper and lower FPS numbers my guns are ‘recorded’ doing at different games days I attend especially as all my guns are kept stock and never ‘up-graded’ as I’ve always been a believer in “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it !” So there shouldn’t be a particularly noticeable variation in the output once there bedded in . I do think it’s fair to say most sites get the chrono’s out on a Sunday morning check the guns and then end of day or some time during it there either chucked in a box or in to a cupboard until the next game day , hardly the way you’d want a machine used to accurately check energy output treated is it ? 
just saying .

 

whilst you have a very valid point about the accuracy of site chronographs, and i absolutely agree that it's not ideal to be making decisions based on one machine that gets rough use (if in doubt use at least 2 different chrono's that provide the same reading). it's why you tend to see folk suggesting not to push to be exactly on the limit in case the site chrono over/under reads and you can't play. it's also why i take exception to the whole "ermagerd one shot out of 10 was 0.1fps over the limit, ban 'em, ban their mums, ban their kids unto the 7th generation" kind of site policy because unless they're using a superbly calibrated system they can't rightly claim that the reading was correct.

 

however minor variability of a gun on a shot-shot let alone a day-day basis is very much the norm, indeed the purpose of many "upgrades" is specifically towards reducing that variation for the purpose of accuracy. you'd also generally expect variation to get worse rather than better over the long-term as parts wear/degrade.

 

it's also worth considering that there's potential that one batch of bb's are a slightly different average weight/standard deviation to another batch, even when sticking to the same nominal weight and manufacturer, ofc the more premium ammo you'd expect less variation which is part of the cost factor in the quality control.

[Floperator]

Surely being humiliated and losing your game fee by being thrown off site should be reserved for the most egregious behaviour. There were all kinds of solutions here other than kicking the player out.

[Rogerborg]

I do feel compelled to point this out.  HPA users aren't actually an elite breed of operators who acquire a +5 bonus to Knowledge with every purchase.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Fuck me, that was barely even English. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Adolf Hamster]

25 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

I do feel compelled to point this out.  HPA user aren't actually an elite breed of operators who acquire a +5 bonus to Knowledge with every purchase.

 

that, in one image is is the reason why marshalling staff have to be the ones who understand how airsoft stuff works, because you can't rely on the players.

 

i acknowledge that not everyone needs to know the in-depth physics behind how airsoft works in order to have a good time playing, but is isn't entirely unreasonable to expect at least some level of very very basic competency? like the ability to at least google the question?

 

but then i suppose we're talking about a hobby where something as simple as "when you get hit by a bb, you raise your hand and walk to the respawn flag" is apparently beyond the grasp of some folk so i probably shouldn't be surprised.....

[Tackle]

Let's be honest, if you were attempting to run a professional site, how hard would it be to have some laminated sheets at a permanent chrono point for immediate reference, along with a selection of proven weight, decent quality bb's & one each of most platform mags.

I never get why most sites call people to a hastily prepared chrono, usually balanced on the edge of a makeshift range, & usually manned by one lone Marshall while all the other Marshall's stand together in the safezone swapping war stories & generally doing feck all 🤬

[Rogerborg]

8 minutes ago, Tackle said:

I never get why most sites call people to a hastily prepared chrono, usually balanced on the edge of a makeshift range, & usually manned by one lone Marshall while all the other Marshall's stand together in the safezone swapping war stories & generally doing feck all 🤬

 

So sad, but so true.  I'd imagine because they're run and staffed by people who like playing airsoft, and being around airsoft, but aren't actually interested in the process of running a site, or marshalling it.

 

It is baffling though why site owners are prepared to put in hours and hours doing build and maintenance work on their site, but not in putting together a decent chrono station, prepping it at the start of the day, or training their marshal team to run it.

 

Not that I'd be interested in doing it better, I hasten to add. But that said, I've lost count of the times that I've hung around and helped out the Loneliest Marshal even if it's just putting on tags.

[Adolf Hamster]

53 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Let's be honest, if you were attempting to run a professional site, how hard would it be to have some laminated sheets at a permanent chrono point for immediate reference, along with a selection of proven weight, decent quality bb's & one each of most platform mags.

 

Not hard at all, just a strip with the fps figures the site limit for each commonly available weight of ammo. No faffing around changing chrono settings just compare the raw fps figure with the corresponding weight.

 

And having some bags of ammo handy as you say, wouldnt even need mags (the punters after all would have them handy) just a sample range of speedloaders.

 

A single standard weight for double checking would do just fine for most guns (ie aeg's) so its not like you'd be using a lot of the heavier/more expensive ammo as that'd only be needed to check joule creep susceptable platforms.

 

But that would take effort.....

[Dan Robinson]

17 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

Not hard at all, just a strip with the fps figures the site limit for each commonly available weight of ammo. No faffing around changing chrono settings just compare the raw fps figure with the corresponding weight.

 

And having some bags of ammo handy as you say, wouldnt even need mags (the punters after all would have them handy) just a sample range of speedloaders.

 

A single standard weight for double checking would do just fine for most guns (ie aeg's) so its not like you'd be using a lot of the heavier/more expensive ammo as that'd only be needed to check joule creep susceptable platforms.

 

But that would take effort.....

 

Stop speaking sense you fool.  Someone might have to act on it. 

[Adolf Hamster]

16 minutes ago, Dan Robinson said:

Stop speaking sense you fool.  Someone might have to act on it. 

 

A man can dream.....

[concretesnail]

37 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

Not hard at all, just a strip with the fps figures the site limit for each commonly available weight of ammo. No faffing around changing chrono settings just compare the raw fps figure with the corresponding weight.

 

And having some bags of ammo handy as you say, wouldnt even need mags (the punters after all would have them handy) just a sample range of speedloaders.

 

A single standard weight for double checking would do just fine for most guns (ie aeg's) so its not like you'd be using a lot of the heavier/more expensive ammo as that'd only be needed to check joule creep susceptable platforms.

 

But that would take effort.....

That's the style of setup that was at anzio last time I was there, with a pair of skan chrono and two staff.

Edited July 6, 2022 by concretesnail
smooshed the screen

[Druid799]

My new home site has two chrono stations running at the same time , everyone has to go line up at the same time , one does .2’s the other .25’s and once all the .2’s are done they then do all other weights AND the marshal has a laminated sheet with the BB weight +fps variants on it to workout if it’s a yay or a nay . Chrono takes practically no time at all compared to basically every other site I’ve ever been too , chrono stays open till safety brief when it then closes any late attenders or anyone else who missed it as they were too busy gob’ing off to their mates have to wait till the start of the warm up game to chrono so it only eats in to their game time and not everyone else’s on site . Me personally I think it works bloody well as a system .

 

 

10 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

however minor variability of a gun on a shot-shot let alone a day-day basis is very much the norm, indeed the purpose of many "upgrades" is specifically towards reducing that variation for the purpose of accuracy. you'd also generally expect variation to get worse rather than better over the long-term as parts wear/degrade.

Not denying your going to get variants in fps output shot by shot but some of the discrepancies I’ve seen over the years at different sites I’ve attended have been farcical ! 😳
hence I always try to stay mid to low 300’s with my fps and I have my own chrono to check my guns before game days on the off chance the fuckup fairy has been and sprinkled some powdered bollox on my gatt’s while they’ve been laid up ! 🤦‍♂️

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

1 hour ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

A man can dream.....

[colinjallen]

12 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

I do feel compelled to point this out.  HPA users aren't actually an elite breed of operators who acquire a +5 bonus to Knowledge with every purchase.

 

“I seam stupid…”

 

Well, now that you mention it.

[Druid799]

11 hours ago, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

Of course you do , but I think I’ve a much better chance of hooking you up with a flying unicorn if your interested ?😉

[Rogerborg]

12 hours ago, Druid799 said:

everyone has to go line up at the same time

 

Notionally. In practice, you could skip it, or put on your own tag, or change power or BB weight after chrono, or any one of the kajillion other wheezes that make pre-game chrono nothing more than theatre from a prevention point of view.

 

I see its purpose as to help me not get kicked off site if I'm caught with a hot gun in game.

 

But if Anzio are using different standards for in-game and pre-game, it doesn't even achieve that purpose.

 

So, really, what's the point of it?  Most of the time, at most sites, it just feels like a ritual performed by rote, without any critical thinking put in to what it's intended to do, or how it actually achieves that.

[Adolf Hamster]

1 hour ago, Druid799 said:

Of course you do , but I think I’ve a much better chance of hooking you up with a flying unicorn if your interested ?😉

 

is it made of diamonds and does it crap rainbows?

 

because if so i'm definitely interested!

 

9 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

Most of the time, at most sites, it just feels like a ritual performed by rote, without any critical thinking put in to what it's intended to do, or how it actually achieves that.

 

well said that man! that is the heart of the problem in one line right there.

[Impulse]

So what you're saying is, that as someone who loves all things gas and HPA, I should avoid Anzio.

 

I think I'm picking up what you guys are putting down there.

 

Seriously stupid though. The whole point you sometimes run lighter BBs in gas guns is because they creep like mad. My m700 only has a 500mm barrel, not the stock 630mm one, and on 144a it will shoot a .3 at about 1.1J and a .48 at about 1.6J. Pretty sure my MWS would be hot if I put anything heavier than a .32 in it too.

[Druid799]

3 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Notionally. In practice, you could skip it, or put on your own tag, or change power or BB weight after chrono, or any one of the kajillion other wheezes that make pre-game chrono nothing more than theatre from a prevention point of view.

 

I see its purpose as to help me not get kicked off site if I'm caught with a hot gun in game.

 

But if Anzio are using different standards for in-game and pre-game, it doesn't even achieve that purpose.

 

So, really, what's the point of it?  Most of the time, at most sites, it just feels like a ritual performed by rote, without any critical thinking put in to what it's intended to do, or how it actually achieves that.

So basically what your post is saying is unless all sites only allow their own rental guns to be used on site then there’s no point in chrono’ing anyones gun as no one can be trusted to any degree not to cheat ? 
In that case it comes down too when you book on a game they ask just one single question  “are you a cnut yes or no ?” Simple as that really . 

[Rogerborg]

8 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

So basically what your post is saying is unless all sites only allow their own rental guns to be used on site then there’s no point in chrono’ing anyones gun as no one can be trusted to any degree not to cheat ? 

 

Pre-game?  Then yes, there's no point.  Specifically, there's no point in pretending that 95% compliance solves the 5% of problems.

 

The goal is to stop hot guns being used in-game, yes?

 

Pre-game chrono doesn't ensure that.  It helps the honest and compliant players to be honest, and to comply.  I'm happy to use pre-game chrono as a facility.

 

But I remain baffled as to how it's meant to stop the dis-honest and non-compliant from taking and using hot guns on the field, via any of the methods mentioned above.

 

And aren't those people the problem that we're trying to solve?

 

Related, does this sign actually prevent shootings?  How, exactly?

 

 

 

[Kls77]

Wtf ...this still doing lol . I totally  forgot as currently in Croatia not giving a flying  fuck about Anzio camp ...

[Adolf Hamster]

37 minutes ago, Kls77 said:

Wtf ...this still doing lol . I totally  forgot as currently in Croatia not giving a flying  fuck about Anzio camp ...

 

if there's one thing this forum likes it's a good ol' debate

[Floperator]

OP just did the equivalent of chucking a copy of the Daily Mail into the cafeteria of a nursing home and then just ran for the hills while we all got high blood pressure.