LiPo’s dangerous or not ?

[Druid799]

Just noted a question posted up about lipo safety after a player had left his batteries near a heat source and was naturally concerned about their condition .

Which got me thinking about the accepted ‘danger’ of LiPo batteries and the fact in the however many years I’ve been using them I’ve only ever seen one ‘catastrophic’ event occur involving them , and that was when a player lost his footing running across a slime coated rickety bridge , imbedded the barrel of his M14 in to the deck and catapulted himself through the air on the butt end which bent the gun well out of shape which THEN caused the gun to start making hissing and sparking noises and produce copious amounts of acrid smoke and then proceed to consume its self .🤦‍♂️
So what I’m asking is how many of the members on here can actually relate a personal story of them selves or witnessed by themselves (not a “oh my friends/brothers/neighbors/sisters/boyfriends/cousins dog walkers son had his arm blown off by a LiPo battery exploding !” story)of the dangerous failure of a LiPo batterie ? Just curious really . 👍

[concretesnail]

I've manage to ruin a fair few lipos but not playing airsoft. Fpv quads have been the choice for lipo killing, crashes and flat-out abuse but inside the house they get treated with respect because I have seen the flames first hand; storage charged, main draw lead capped and put into ammo tin, with the seal removed so they don't turn into a pressure vessel if the worst should happen.

[Khyber]

Hey, like I mentioned in the other post. The risk is generally fairly small if correct methods are used and you treat them with respect. On the other hand you don't want to ignore that small risk as it could happen to anyone. Just make sure you fully understand how to store, charge, maintain and use them correctly and that risk is absolutely minimal.

[EDcase]

Not heard of any incidents in airsoft but there are many cases of Li-Po's in other devices catching fire from phones to 'hover' boards.

Sometimes while charging and sometimes just being used normally.

 

I've set one off by hammering a nail into a puffy battery to kill it before throwing away.

It did actually explode but I think that will only happen with such extreme structural damage. ie shorting all layers at the same time.

In most cases its a rather violent chemical fire that builds in intensity as the battery is consumed.

 

It may be very rare for airsoft sized batteries but its not worth taking any risks with something that could end so badly.

I use a baking tray because I don't like the idea of a potential build-up of gases in a bag if something goes wrong.

My desk is near the charging area so keep an eye on things when charging and have a powder fire extinguisher next to me.

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by EDcase

[SBoardley]

Right. Wasn’t gonna talk about this, didn’t particularly think anyone would give a crap, and basically I’m a reasonably private person. 
however, in May I had a lipo failure in my bedroom, which could have easily killed my son who nearly got trapped in the shower. I almost passed out from smoke inhalation, trying to put it out. 
House was gutted within ten minutes of finding it. Fire service were training that night and were there in like ten minutes, and basically saved the shell. 
Luckily the insurance company have paid up and we should be back in by January. 
ive had lipo batteries for like over ten years for my rifs, never never had a problem til this. 
moral of the story should be : 

respect lipo s. 
always charge them in a metal box or proper bag near your back door or something. 
I’ll post some pic at some point. 
 

plug: if anyone has a ksc sig p226 - mine is screwed!

Right. Wasn’t gonna talk about this, didn’t particularly think anyone would give a crap, and basically I’m a reasonably private person. 
however, in May I had a lipo failure in my bedroom, which could have easily killed my son who nearly got trapped in the shower. I almost passed out from smoke inhalation, trying to put it out. 
House was gutted within ten minutes of finding it. Fire service were training that night and were there in like ten minutes, and basically saved the shell. 
Luckily the insurance company have paid up and we should be back in by January. 
ive had lipo batteries for like over ten years for my rifs, never never had a problem til this. 
moral of the story should be : 

respect lipo s. 
always charge them in a metal box or proper bag near your back door or something. 
I’ll post some pic at some point. 
 

plug: if anyone has a ksc sig p226 - mine is screwed!

Tmc avs, and ksc sig…I’ll try find more. 

[Adolf Hamster]

6 minutes ago, SBoardley said:

Right. Wasn’t gonna talk about this, didn’t particularly think anyone would give a crap

 

good of you to share man, hopefully the news of just how shit things can end up prevents some other poor sod going through the same.

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Blimey. All I can say is glad you made it out OK. Hope all gets sorted soon for you.

Being an engineer I've learned to respect electricity and batteries in particular. Most of the ones I work on are large lead acid units that a) can give you a hell of a belt (especially with a bank of 16 on charge - no cremation required...) and b) if they leak basically you end up with a scene not far removed from the bit in Alien when the facehugger's blood eats through the floor.

 

Lithium batteries are great in use but like all batteries need care and attention both to get the best from them and to keep safe. Well-documented incidents involving laptops and phones spontaneously combusting on their shocked owners and Boeing 787s smoking on the apron are legion, however as with a things follow proper procedure, stay safe and keep an extinguisher handy...

[Shamal]

So sorry to hear about your traumatic experience @SBoardleyit must have been a real scarey episode. Just glad you and your son survived it 👍if it's any help I have a we m9 with couple mags I would donate to you.pm me.

 

Bit like @EDcase,I.took a puffed 11.1 to work and we fired paslode nails at it on the sand heap but unlike edcase it just smoked quite a bit.

 

Regards 

[SBoardley]

@Shamaldude what an amazing and friendly offer. Atm my ukara is lapsed, otherwise I’d bite yer hand off! Nice one, thanks bud. 

[Khyber]

@SBoardleythanks for sharing your story bro. Glad to hear no one was seriously injured or worse. I can't imagine what it's like to experience something like that. But sharing your story just reinforces what I have said in this post and the other recent one about how, though a small risk, that risk is still very much a serious one and not to be forgotten. 

 

Also I don't believe you need ukara to buy private. Ukara is for retailers. Private sale is down the the seller to determine if it is for reasonable use e.g skirmishing. Though if he is donating to you even then you don't need any defense as such. Be humble and accept the very kind offer a reinforcement of how kind people can be.

[EvilMonkee]

@SBoardleywas it being charged/used at the time it went up?

 

[Rogerborg]

4 hours ago, SBoardley said:

always charge them in a metal box or proper bag near your back door or something. 

 

Sorry to hear about your awful experience, and thanks for sharing.  I currently charge in a cheapo bag while supervising, and with an eye on the back door and a powder extinguisher (which will likely do sod all to a lithium fire).  But I hereby commit to upgrading to an Explosion Containment Pie Dish.

[Druid799]

5 hours ago, SBoardley said:

plug: if anyone has a ksc sig p226 - mine is screwed!

 Being a bit over dramatic there aren’t we ? Give it a good clean some rattle can black and I’m sure you can offload it on to some chump , oops sorry I ment I’m sure you could sell it on to a discerning fellow airsofter ? 😉

[Ebeneezer Goode]

5 hours ago, Druid799 said:

 Being a bit over dramatic there aren’t we ? Give it a good clean some rattle can black and I’m sure you can offload it on to some chump , oops sorry I ment I’m sure you could sell it on to a discerning fellow airsofter ? 😉

Lol. I'm sure it could be resold at almost full RRP on Patrol Base's Boneyard section...

[AirSniper]

Yes very.

 

They go nuclear for many reasons.

Too high a current draw = heat = thermal run-away, goes nuclear.

 

Puncture one, goes nuclear.

 

Short the terminals, goes nuclear.

 

Wrong Charger setting, goes nuclear (if wrong voltage, too high current input)

 

Many reasons for them to go nuclear.

 

 

[Rogerborg]

N is for Nuclear.

N is for Nuprol.

 

 

 

[Oneshotscott]

Man that sucks and I am glad you and your family are ok.

 

I am not a battery expert but his is the reason why Ive stuck to Ni-Mh batteries and renew them every 2 years.  Im not a die hard air softer so my kit gets stored in a place where its out of sight (like a garage or shed) so If there were to be a battery failure/fire I wouldn't be aware of it until its too late.  

 

For me the extra rps Id be achieving isn't worth the risk, especially when you have a family and a house full of items that cannot be replaced.

 

It's all about knowing the risks and taking preventive steps to avoid such tragedies.  

[snuff]

I've seen 1 lipo battery spark up when somebody had wired it wrong,luckily it was over a chrono/firing range but it went up well.Seen many bloated batteries but also heard the owners saying "nah it still charges ok" ffs...that includes my tight arse brother,I think I persuaded him to dump them.Mine are kept in my shed at the end of the garden with my fat RC batteries and bike batteries,charged in a bag in there or in the kitchen depending on what I'm doing,always supervised.Education towards proper management is the key IMO.Not directed at anyone in anyway,alas my nephew is about to start playing,I might push hom away from Lipos,it's not something you can rush into.

[RostokMcSpoons]

Has anyone tried LiFe batteries as an alternative?  I know next-to-nothing about them (hiya Wiki, hiya pal), beyond the fact they're supposed to be safe. Can be punctured etc without looking like an accident in a napalm factory*

Now I understand they're not as 'energy dense' so for a given pack size you'll be getting fewer mAH and lower voltage.
And there's a lot less choice in sizes, but I saw a reasonably sized pack with 900 mAH and 9.x volts, for £20 (iirc).

If safety is a serious concern, are they worth consideration?


* This is how I imagine a LiPo fire.  May be a slight over-dramatization - I've not seen one yet

[DerDer]

LiFe 9.9v batteries are a bit of a niche item. They usually give a bit less performance that their Lipo equivalents. 

They can be used effectively. Something like a full stock M16 or AKM with a load of battery space would be a good fit.

Have used them in my loaner AEG in the past. Was handy to just give it out to someone in the past, change the battery at lunch 

and have no problems. That was a brick type Life battery. 

 

Have tried a smaller capacity one in the past. Performance was very weedy, it was struggling after one game. Purely anecdotal but also 

ordered some stick type LiFe and never received them. Got a refund from the retailer that they couldn't get the batteries to hold a charger.  

 

Now the tech might have improved recently but from an admittedly quick glance at component shop the LiFes they are offering in the airsoft section seem largely similar to a few years ago. There's also Li-Ion batteries floating around but have virtually nil experience outside of using them in power tools.  

[Lozart]

Lithium batteries - FAQ https://www.batterypowertips.com/difference-between-lithium-ion-lithium-polymer-batteries-faq/

 

I've been using Titan Power Li-Ion batteries for a while and there's some pro's and con's. Yes they last well, they have plenty of power and they don't puff up. They also hold their charge really well once they've been charged. However they do only come in a few form factors and sizes are limited by the construction.

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Lozart said:

they don't puff up

 

Is that a "mine haven't" or "they are incapable of it"? Genuine question, I haven't so much as licked one.

[Hatchet]

As an alternative to ammo boxes, these Bat Safes might be worth considering. I've got one, although obviously I've not put it to the test (and hope never to have to).

[Lozart]

19 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Is that a "mine haven't" or "they are incapable of it"? Genuine question, I haven't so much as licked one.

 

They're metal cased (effectively 18650 type cells joined together) so it's highly unlikely but never say never!

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Lozart said:

They're metal cased (effectively 18650 type cells joined together) so it's highly unlikely but never say never!

 

Oh, right.

 

That reminds me, I have a stack of (claimed) 2Ah-ish 18650s lying around, and was wondering what would stop me from wiring a couple of them in series and throwing a Deans connector on.