The forever increasing amount of ghillie suits

[JVacation]

This is not a topic of me complaining that ghillie suits are too difficult to see but more about the quantity. 

 

One thing I've noticed in the last 2 years is how ghillie suits are increasing every game day. Even for people who are not running sniper. I would be interested to see if some sites will start to introduce a rule of that ghillie suits are for bolt actions only or something similar.

 

Realistically the quality of gameplay would drop for all players if we start to see around 50% of players on skirmish days wearing ghillie suits. 

[Colin Allen]

6 minutes ago, JVacation said:

This is not a topic of me complaining that ghillie suits are too difficult to see but more about the quantity. 

 

One thing I've noticed in the last 2 years is how ghillie suits are increasing every game day. Even for people who are not running sniper. I would be interested to see if some sites will start to introduce a rule of that ghillie suits are for bolt actions only or something similar.

 

Realistically the quality of gameplay would drop for all players if we start to see around 50% of players on skirmish days wearing ghillie suits. 

I believe that Imperium has quite strict rules on who can wear ghillie suits.  
 

i would like to see them restricted to snipers.

[Impulse]

It's part of the reason I don't wear my suits much any more, though I don't think I'll ever stop for good because I've been doing it for longer than most and it's what I enjoy. Also, my suits aren't the full blown bush wookiee suits and it annoys me whenever people are like "ah, so you don't run a proper ghillie" because I prefer the cape and hood style over turning myself into a bush; I hate those suits and they snag on everything when you crawl on your front. Every time I go to a game day, I see at the very minimum half a dozen ghillies but it is often upwards of 10 or 15 depending on the season (less people run them in summer because it's too hot). Considering the absolute maximum people we will have at Worthing is 85, if 15 are in ghillie suits that's starting to be a large portion of the players. I think the worst case I saw was about 22 ghillie suits on a day of about 60 players.

 

I would love it if we had ghillie suits restricted to snipers, but for skirmish that's always going to be tough to do since skirmish is meant to be very "turn up with whatever kit you want and play BB wars" and I wouldn't want that to change. For more organised events like filmsim, battlesim or milsim stuff, I would limit them to snipers, using either using a bolt action sniper rifle or a DMR in a sniper role (locked to semi-auto and higher power, no 1J no MED DMRs even though I love them) and spotters (can have a regular rifle but must be paired with a bolt action / DMR sniper). I'd be hesitant though because it would encourage more people to run DMRs and there are a lot of trigger-spammy people who have no concept of what an MED is.

 

That said, I don't think it's as simple as the ghillie itself. It's the playstyle that comes with it. Most I've seen will go out purely for kills without a care in the world as to what the objective is, and that's the real problem, especially if one team has more of these kill-obsessed bushes on their team as they will just get ruined on the objectives. For me, I tend to play the same with or without the suit and will always try and do something that will help my team with the objective beyond "I got 95328592 kills that game". Sometimes it's area denial (I will pick an area and deny it, even once the enemy stops going that way to force them into other areas for my team to take advantage of), sometimes it's cutting off reinforcements, sometimes it's sitting in a concealed position radioing in enemy movements to my team without firing a single shot, but it always will be based on what the objective is. Not all ghillies do this; they just suit up because they saw a Kicking Mustang video once and just go and see how many kills they can get.

[Fatboy40]

We need to be honest that airsoft is "pay to win", so the RIF's you're using and if you've been able to pay for the parts (or work) to get them working to perfection, and the icing on the cake is if you can use the super mega upgraded RIF without anyone ever knowing where you are and where the BB came from.

 

I'll be honest in that I'm now getting into it as well, playing a DMR role which I love, but I'm trying to craft everything myself (I enjoy crafting and teching potentially more than playing). Not the bush wookie route, as like others have said it's actually a hindrance (over heating, snagging on things etc.), but KMCS ghillie mesh + raffia + ink on scrim nets and viper hoods etc.

 

I think that as it's so easy to buy off the shelf camo / ghillie items from places like Empire Airsoft it's just another item now on the "pay to win" bingo card?

[Krisz]

40 minutes ago, Fatboy40 said:

We need to be honest that airsoft is "pay to win"

Only outdoor. Indoor a spring shotgun is as viable as an MTW.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Krisz

[Adolf Hamster]

eh, i don't really see an issue with people wearing ghillies.

 

end of the day if you don't know what you're at then draping yourself in mock hedgerow is going to offer the square total of bugger all assistance to your ability be concealed in the same way that owning a gucci set of screwdrivers doesn't make you a top tier airsoft tech.

 

likewise someone who's gifted in the art of the sneak can become invisible almost entirely regardless of their choice of attire.

 

this to me is separate from the other issue with ghillie wearers, to wit, the insistence of ankle armbands or other such lacking of identifiers. if the rest of us mere mortals are gonna have to wear a bright red armband to distinguish friend from foe then there should be no exceptions.

[Lozart]

53 minutes ago, Fatboy40 said:

We need to be honest that airsoft is "pay to win", so the RIF's you're using and if you've been able to pay for the parts (or work) to get them working to perfection, and the icing on the cake is if you can use the super mega upgraded RIF without anyone ever knowing where you are and where the BB came from.

 

I'll be honest in that I'm now getting into it as well, playing a DMR role which I love, but I'm trying to craft everything myself (I enjoy crafting and teching potentially more than playing). Not the bush wookie route, as like others have said it's actually a hindrance (over heating, snagging on things etc.), but KMCS ghillie mesh + raffia + ink on scrim nets and viper hoods etc.

 

I think that as it's so easy to buy off the shelf camo / ghillie items from places like Empire Airsoft it's just another item now on the "pay to win" bingo card?

 

15 minutes ago, Krisz said:

Only outdoor. Indoor a spring shotgun is as viable as an MTW.

 

 

I can see where you're coming from but the number of times I've been pwned by a rental would tell me it's not all pay to win!

[Beorn]

3 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

this to me is separate from the other issue with ghillie wearers, to wit, the insistence of ankle armbands or other such lacking of identifiers. if the rest of us mere mortals are gonna have to wear a bright red armband to distinguish friend from foe then there should be no exceptions.

I feel quite strongly that arm bands or other team identifiers should be clearly visible at all times - only be worn on the arm or on the upper part of the torso at the very least (around the shoulder strap of the carrier/vest etc.) Its only fair. I don't think ghillie's should get special prerogatives beyond what they already have by nature of wearing the ghillie which does give an advantage if used correctly.

 

If someone is able to spot you based on your armband (which is already difficult to spot at the best of times in my experience) then they deserve that kill I reckon. I only have a 1x and I find it hard enough to see blokes in normal gear beyond a certain distance.

 

Trouble is I also don't want to be the guy whining to the staff about it because it just feels petty so 🤷‍♂️

[Colin Allen]

2 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

this to me is separate from the other issue with ghillie wearers, to wit, the insistence of ankle armbands or other such lacking of identifiers. if the rest of us mere mortals are gonna have to wear a bright red armband to distinguish friend from foe then there should be no exceptions.

Verily, you speak truth!  As a certified sneaky bastard, my armband sometimes gives away my position, no matter how much I try to position myself so that it cannot be seen.

I cannot see any reason why bush wookies should be able to sidestep that particular problem.

[Impulse]

2 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

end of the day if you don't know what you're at then draping yourself in mock hedgerow is going to offer the square total of bugger all assistance to your ability be concealed in the same way that owning a gucci set of screwdrivers doesn't make you a top tier airsoft tech.

 

likewise someone who's gifted in the art of the sneak can become invisible almost entirely regardless of their choice of attire.

 

this to me is separate from the other issue with ghillie wearers, to wit, the insistence of ankle armbands or other such lacking of identifiers. if the rest of us mere mortals are gonna have to wear a bright red armband to distinguish friend from foe then there should be no exceptions.

 

Regarding the armband, everyone should wear one unless it's an event where they aren't in use (filmsim, tans vs greens games etc) and if everyone else has to wear it on the arm, so should the ghillies. Similarly, if ghillies are allowed to wear it around the ankle, then me in my regular t-shirt and trousers should be allowed to wear it around the ankle as well. You're more likely to be shot by your own team than get spotted because of your armband anyway; two things that have never given me away is me having my face uncovered and my armband. Also, people who conceal their armband underneath ghillies are cheating. I've seen people craft extra stuff around a part of their arm so that they can put the armband on and then cover it with ghillie material.

 

Also, it's very true; the ghillie doesn't make the sneaky bastard and I always advise people new to sniping to hone their playstyle without running one at all. You can dress in the gucci-est, most well-crafted suit, but if you don't understand camo and concealment fundamentals you're going to get spotted all the time. Other part of the reason I don't ghillie much in the summer; it's good to keep skills well honed.

 

3 hours ago, Fatboy40 said:

I think that as it's so easy to buy off the shelf camo / ghillie items from places like Empire Airsoft it's just another item now on the "pay to win" bingo card?

 

I definitely think this is part of it. When I started, very few people ran ghillies (I literally knew 3 including myself) because they generally sucked to make. You had to get the jute / burlap, dye it in a bucket (multiple times because different colours), unthread it and fray the fabric manually then either sew/glue gun it onto BDUs or otherwise attach it to a Webtex concealment vest (I still love them for ghillie bases to this day).

Edited August 24, 2023 by Impulse

[Cannonfodder]

3 hours ago, Fatboy40 said:

We need to be honest that airsoft is "pay to win",

I'll have to disagree there, all my guns are totally stock and I think I manage to do ok with them.

 

As for ghillie suits, I really couldn't give a monkey's what another player is wearing as long as they call their hits. The trouble is too many people think a ghillie suit is a magical invisibility cloak, whereas in reality the best camo in the world is useless if your fieldcraft is crap.

 

2 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

this to me is separate from the other issue with ghillie wearers, to wit, the insistence of ankle armbands or other such lacking of identifiers

Agreed. Although it does make me laugh when said bush wookie starts moaning about recieving friendly fire because their team mates can't ID them either

[JinxDuh]

5 hours ago, JVacation said:

One thing I've noticed in the last 2 years is how ghillie suits

[Rogerborg]

It's not the suits themselves, it's that playing sneaky tends to slow the pace of the game down.  I have seen (a very few) low turnout days where there are enough campers that games just grind to a stalemate.  Not a regular issue, not a huge one, and generally only towards the end of the day when everyone's puffed out anyway.

[Duff Beer]

The ultimate pay to win: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/holosun-launches-drs-hybrid-thermal-or-night-vision-daylight-red-dot-optics/amp/

 

I’m tempted to get something thermal to solve the issue, having been suppressed consistently by a ghillie in my last game

 

I don’t care how good you are, you can’t hide from thermal!

[Nick G]

4 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

eh, i don't really see an issue with people wearing ghillies.

 

end of the day if you don't know what you're at then draping yourself in mock hedgerow is going to offer the square total of bugger all assistance to your ability be concealed in the same way that owning a gucci set of screwdrivers doesn't make you a top tier airsoft tech.

 

likewise someone who's gifted in the art of the sneak can become invisible almost entirely regardless of their choice of attire.

 

this to me is separate from the other issue with ghillie wearers, to wit, the insistence of ankle armbands or other such lacking of identifiers. if the rest of us mere mortals are gonna have to wear a bright red armband to distinguish friend from foe then there should be no exceptions.

There was a lad turned up to our last game in full Templer night gear, breastplate, helmet gauntlets, white tabbard and sodding great sword.  Last game of the day he had 5 lives and about 6 guards , everyone else had to hunt him. No one ever spotted him, shiny metal and white tabbard and he still managed to conceal himself so we never saw him. 

[Dan Robinson]

I recall one game where the boy nearly got crushed by my own fair feet.  He was lying in long grass in nothing more than a basic DPM outfit, boonie hat, and,  I think,  his two tone m16.

 

Me and two others walked straight past him and his mate .... Good job we were on the same  side 🤣🤣🤣

 

We were even looking for a "crashed drone" , so actively scanning the area for things. 

 

Totally confirms the field craft aspects of being Sneaky Bois.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Dan Robinson

[RebelScum]

3 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

The trouble is too many people think a ghillie suit is a magical invisibility cloak, whereas in reality the best camo in the world is useless if your fieldcraft is crap.

 

100% this.  Movement and sound will give you away regardless of whether you look like a bush or not.  I've experienced this a couple of times, standing-up in light cover 5 feet away from the opposing team dressed in blue urban camo, and they just walked straight past me.  Often players are so fixated with the objective or a target, or are crashing around woodland and talking loudly, they fail to notice danger right under their noses.  The best players are the ones who know when to keep still.

[Cannonfodder]

I'm starting to feel this is appropriate 

 

[THE CHIEF]

On 24/08/2023 at 16:54, Krisz said:

Only outdoor. Indoor a spring shotgun is as viable as an MTW.

I'll double down and say it's viable in the woods. I'll give anyone a game with a trishot. 

[Lowe]

On 24/08/2023 at 21:43, Duff Beer said:

The ultimate pay to win: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/holosun-launches-drs-hybrid-thermal-or-night-vision-daylight-red-dot-optics/amp/

 

I’m tempted to get something thermal to solve the issue, having been suppressed consistently by a ghillie in my last game

 

I don’t care how good you are, you can’t hide from thermal!

 

 

This is pretty much what I did. Bought a Pulsar Thermion Duo and then went ghillie bashing...

 

 

You can pay to hide, but I'll pay to find. 😂

[Lozart]

13 minutes ago, Lowe said:

 

and then went ghillie bashing...

 

 

Says man in a ghillie suit....

[Lowe]

1 hour ago, Lozart said:

 

Says man in a ghillie suit....

And? 😂🤷🏻‍♂️ Anyone not wearing one is an NPC anyway, casual cannon fodder 😂

[TheFull9]

Yeesh imagine an entire game where everyone's dressed like a plant, not one of them actually doing anything as per usual 😴