What is reasonable wear and tear for an airsoft RIF?

[AirSniper]

What is reasonable wear and tear for an airsoft RIF?

I purchased a G&G GC16 back in June 2021, Sunday it died after one hour of game play. 

 

The consensus is that the motor spins and the gears are spinning, the piston is not engaging. 

 

What other reason can there be for a RIF to fail? Can a spring be the issue?

I called the shop and got some BS comment about warranty "Only if it is never fired" yet this item died and I would expect at least 3 or 4 years out of it at the level I play at, being twice a month, so about 14 odd times...

[EDcase]

Sounds like stripped piston (Teeth on piston rack)

 

I wouldn't expect it to happen so soon either but if they say its out of warranty then you can fix yourself and check everything out at the same time.

 

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by EDcase

[Groot]

1 hour ago, AirSniper said:

What is reasonable wear and tear for an airsoft RIF?

I purchased a G&G GC16 back in June 2021, Sunday it died after one hour of game play. 

 

The consensus is that the motor spins and the gears are spinning, the piston is not engaging. 

 

What other reason can there be for a RIF to fail? Can a spring be the issue?

I called the shop and got some BS comment about warranty "Only if it is never fired" yet this item died and I would expect at least 3 or 4 years out of it at the level I play at, being twice a month, so about 14 odd times...

 

While its shit. You kind of need to see it from the shop overs point of view. 
Every person who calls them with a broken gun, will tell him its only just fired a few rounds and barely seen day light. 

You can break a perfectly good AEG very quickly with bad ammo, over power battery, spamming the trigger faster than the gun can function, getting a jam and keeping firing, doing some "maintenance on it" etc etc  So if i was a retailer I would just assume everyone is a dick and write my policy to match
I always assume my AEG is going to break and carry a backup. Because.. I am sometimes right

The good news is now you can get it correctly shimmed, take out the ton of grease it doesn't need, maybe short stroke the box, add a stronger spring. Very cheap mods making a huge difference. 
While its apart replace the hob rubber and nub with a mapleleaf. 

When life gives you lemons

[BigAl]

There only if not fired line is bullshit. Your statutory rights say it has to be fit for purpose, which is firing bb’s. However problem is you’ve had it six months, you cant prove its not been used.  If you can go see them face to face, let em see how clean and bused it looks.  Perhaps they’ll change there view.  Perhaps agree that if they fix it you’ll pay for some minor upgrades while there on. However if you dont trust em go somewhere else like Neg Earth. 

[ak2m4]

As others have said 6 months have passed so you'd have to prove that the fault was there originally, i.e never been skirmished.  What company did you buy it from?  What battery were you using?

[AirSniper]

Consider that I have been out once every 2 weeks, the maximum number of games I can physically have played is 14 games, the RIF was bought in (late July after double checking)... or about 14 to a maximum of 16 games, all at the same game site.

 

The fact I have had it 6 or just over 6 months doesn't come in to it, trading standards states that they have the right to reject the goods based on quality of build and reasonable expectations to wear and provide a repair or replace, warranty as side, the law doesn't differentiate if its £1 to £100,000 the re is a reasonable expectation to quality of build and to work as expected as well as longevity.

 

So let the battle of rights begin...

[Cr0-Magnon]

When you play squash, you charge around a small walled court, smashing in to the walls and skirmming your racket a long the floor. As such squash players know they can't get a refund after one game, let alone sixteen.

IMO, it's a long the same lines with an Airsoft gun. As soon as you take the tags off and throw it around the woods, their obligation ends.

[Rogerborg]

6 months is indeed the magic number.  Under that, any problem is assumed to be a manufacturing defect.  Over it, the onus shifts to the purchaser to show that to be the case.  Your statutory right to durability isn't really worth that much in practice as the reality is that they have your money and nobody is going to help you[*] get it back unless you want to to go down the small claims route.

 

Disappointing that a G&G has done this, but not at all surprising that an airsoft retailer has told you to do one.  Sadly, as it's over 6 months, I'd take it on the chin and sort it myself.

 

[*] However, if you want to get involved in a dick measuring contest, there's nothing stopping you asking your payment processor to initiate a chargeback.  The worst they can say is no.

[Sneaky]

I would take this as an opportunity to take it apart and learn about the workings. Once you “get it” it will become The best investment, saving you money in the long run.

[Adolf Hamster]

whilst the never fired line is bs, i mean if you've never fired it how would you know if it worked or not?

 

however generally airsoft warranties do tend to have the issue that the way we use our pews means sellers are very conscious about how feasible it is for a malfunction to be user error.

 

it's why you have the whole "11.1v ready" malarkey, it's not that guns without that rating can't run perfectly well on 11.1v, it's just a way of getting out of a potential claim. i swear this is the only reason mini tamiya is still a thing......

[Rogerborg]

2 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

it's why you have the whole "11.1v ready" malarkey

 

And retailer and manufacturers specifying a maximum C rating (but not amps!), which is bonkers and seems to have no purpose other than to allow teeth sucking and "Ooh, that's user abuse, that is, didn't you read the small print?"

[Adolf Hamster]

Just now, Rogerborg said:

 

And retailer and manufacturers specifying a maximum C rating (but not amps!), which is bonkers and seems to have no purpose other than to allow teeth sucking and "Ooh, that's user abuse, that is, didn't you read the small print?"

 

didn't know they did that.

 

that's spectacularly bad, the absolute last component that should be responsible for capping amp draw is the battery being made to supply more than it's rated to......

[Tackle]

14 outings in 6 months & a piston likely stripped, irrespective of the retailers dick attitude, I think in all fairness that's quite a bit of wear & tear so not unheard of for a piston to lose teeth. 

Justifying a claim using "laws" that were never written with fragile Airsoft toys in mind would be a dick move on your part. 

IMHO 🤔

 

[ak2m4]

My first brand new AEG was back in 2004, was a G&G LR300S, cost around £500 to get it shipped from Redwolf HK, broke on 1st game.  I would have loved 14 outings in 6 months 🙂

In all seriousness QC has got better but not to the point where I'd personally trust one not to develop a fault within the 1st 6 month - just so much to go wrong.   That's just my own personal view, as @Rogerborg states there's nothing stopping you asking your payment processor to initiate a chargeback.  

Edited January 26, 2022 by ak2m4

[Rogerborg]

4 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

didn't know they did that.

 

that's spectacularly bad, the absolute last component that should be responsible for capping amp draw is the battery being made to supply more than it's rated to......

 

I've seen a few say it, along with some Reddit expert types.  Even Luke at Negative has circled around it.

 

And yes, it's phenomenally clowny.  Source voltage, sure. Source amps, no, no, no. Literally the only reason I can imagine to recommend this is try and to stop the motor spinning as fast as it's able, which just means that they're concerned that the motor will shred the gears or the piston running at full whizz.  So, cook the battery instead, genius level teching.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

Literally the only reason I can imagine to recommend this is try and to stop the motor spinning as fast as it's able

 

guess they don't need to warranty a gun if it got burned by a battery that couldn't take it.

 

not gonna lie, i'd rather a shredded piston than a battery fire any day of the week.

 

which probably explains why my shredded piston collection is a thing but my burned battery collection isn't.....

[Druid799]

Also have to take in to consideration how ham fisted you are with the trigger , I’ve seen players run through thousands of BBs in a game and I’d be surprised if their guns even make 4mths let alone 6-9 or even 12mths ! Where as I’ve got a couple of TM recoils (as has one of my team mates as well)that are easily over 12yrs old but as I run predominantly single only there still running fine AND still totally stock bar a deans instead of a tamiya . The longevity of your kit does come down to how you treat it as well 

[BigStew]

Unless the gun is dead out the box warranties are pretty much worhless as trying to prove it wasn't user error is well difficult. Next question have you modified it in anyway as that would invalidate any warranty even its just changing the connectors. 

It would be nice if airsoft guns were universally reliable and long lasting but even the high end guns are just cheap toys for what they are expected to actually do.

[AirSniper]

I have ascertained that the law says different, we all have 12 month warranty on any purchase.

I will be writing to the company regarding what the law says.

 

Would you expect to pay £1,000 a year for airsoft RIF's if they only lasted 3 to 6 months at a time? ... thought not.

So to be clear on this, TRADING STANDARDS have started that the CONSUMER RIGHTS ACT is in play here and it is defective, the expectation to get a longer service is pretty much a given.

 

My sons GC16 is 4 months older and still going strong and he abuses his something rotten, mine has been treated well, is not trigger spammed, quite what that has to do with a piston failure... 

Like Air guns, a RIF can be as much or more than an air gun, yet you buy an air gun from a gunsmith and you get full back up and warranty cover by the manufacturer which is what this warranty claim would be under.

It is up to the shop to repair it as they are the agent for the manufacturer, it is up to them to repair or send it back for repair and its obviously more cost effective to get the repair in the shop over the shipping costs that they would have to pay out of pocket.

So again, I reiterated, the LAW says my rights are that I can reject the goods and get a replacement, a repair and a part refund.

Those were the options presented to me by trading standards.

[BigStew]

16 minutes ago, AirSniper said:

I have ascertained that the law says different, we all have 12 month warranty on any purchase.

I will be writing to the company regarding what the law says.

 

Would you expect to pay £1,000 a year for airsoft RIF's if they only lasted 3 to 6 months at a time? ... thought not.

So to be clear on this, TRADING STANDARDS have started that the CONSUMER RIGHTS ACT is in play here and it is defective, the expectation to get a longer service is pretty much a given.

 

My sons GC16 is 4 months older and still going strong and he abuses his something rotten, mine has been treated well, is not trigger spammed, quite what that has to do with a piston failure... 

Like Air guns, a RIF can be as much or more than an air gun, yet you buy an air gun from a gunsmith and you get full back up and warranty cover by the manufacturer which is what this warranty claim would be under.

It is up to the shop to repair it as they are the agent for the manufacturer, it is up to them to repair or send it back for repair and its obviously more cost effective to get the repair in the shop over the shipping costs that they would have to pay out of pocket.

So again, I reiterated, the LAW says my rights are that I can reject the goods and get a replacement, a repair and a part refund.

Those were the options presented to me by trading standards.

that is the law yes in theory. but everyone here is speaking from experience  the retailer if they are good will fix it, but most likely that will cause them to loose money and they aren't big enough to make demands on the manufacture to get their money back. So is most likely going to say this was broken by user error  so warranty is invalid and then it's up to you to prove other wise and trading standards don't have the resources or the knowledge to do anything about one RIF. 

[colinjallen]

27 minutes ago, AirSniper said:

I have ascertained that the law says different, we all have 12 month warranty on any purchase.

I will be writing to the company regarding what the law says.

 

Would you expect to pay £1,000 a year for airsoft RIF's if they only lasted 3 to 6 months at a time? ... thought not.

So to be clear on this, TRADING STANDARDS have started that the CONSUMER RIGHTS ACT is in play here and it is defective, the expectation to get a longer service is pretty much a given.

 

My sons GC16 is 4 months older and still going strong and he abuses his something rotten, mine has been treated well, is not trigger spammed, quite what that has to do with a piston failure... 

Like Air guns, a RIF can be as much or more than an air gun, yet you buy an air gun from a gunsmith and you get full back up and warranty cover by the manufacturer which is what this warranty claim would be under.

It is up to the shop to repair it as they are the agent for the manufacturer, it is up to them to repair or send it back for repair and its obviously more cost effective to get the repair in the shop over the shipping costs that they would have to pay out of pocket.

So again, I reiterated, the LAW says my rights are that I can reject the goods and get a replacement, a repair and a part refund.

Those were the options presented to me by trading standards.

The retailer will avoid it by pointing out that it was user error, regardless of whether it was or not.  Put on your big boy pants, suck it up and fix it yourself.

Edited January 29, 2022 by colinjallen

[Adolf Hamster]

i suspect the way this situation will end is the retailer will offer to fix the gnu (which iirc you have to give them one chance outside of 6 months), then proceed to put the minimal possible cost/effort into doing it, which frankly is probably going to end up the same anyway.

 

if it were me i'd just replace the piston and call it at that.

 

although in fairness, warranties mean very little to me because they're always longer than the time it takes for me to get bored and start tinkering.....

[concretesnail]

Having been through a very similar situation recently, with John Lewis and a vr headset thermal shutdown issue, I wish you best of luck.

Just make sure you have everything in writing and record calls where it can't be done via email.

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, AirSniper said:

I have ascertained that the law says different

 

Is it a secret law?

 

6 months comes from the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Section 19, (14) (and 24 (10)).

 

If you're thinking of section 9 and "durability", it does not specify a duration.  You are of course free to take the seller to court and claim that the goods should have lasted longer, but that's up to you to argue, on a case-by-case basis.

 

So: Which law says 12 months?  Which Act?  Which section?  What case law?

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

Using the law is a tricky enterprise.  In an instance when someone has taken the piss in so grievous a manner, you may be better off going to kung fu classes, giving up work for a few weeks and getting into explosive physical condition.  

 

Side kicking the door in and casually spinning a set of nunchucks as you enter may adjust the bounders attitude considerably.