Would a zoom optic on an AEG make any sense?

[Harvem]

So when playing outdoors I often notice that I find it very hard to spot enemies. My team mates will often spot enemies that I cannot seem to spot myself at all. This weekend I played in a dense forest and I really struggled to find the enemy. I got shot so many times without any idea where the shots came from.

So this got me thinking. I play with a regular red dot (one of these), maybe I should switch to a zoom optic? Would that make it easier to scan around for enemies and spot them? But then we're playing at such short ranges, especially with an AEG, that it seems strange to use a zoomed optic for that? Any advice?

Also any recommendations for a specific zoomed optic are greatly appreciated.

[Keldon]

A zoomed optic may help in sporting but you do reduce your field of view, so where you will spot one you will miss another. 

 

It maybe better to just slow down a little pause and look. What you are looking for is not people so much but movement. Use your whole filed of view for movement, once spotted zone onto it confirm if it's a target or not and act accordingly.

 

This process can just take a single second once practiced. Also while taking in the your whole field of view you will most likely spot more than one set of movements so you are more aware of where things can be coming from. 

 

For the ranges we play in optics can help but being aware of your surroundings is much more useful.

 

K

[EDcase]

Yep, the key is patience.  Wait a bit to look for any movement then carefully move to the next point of cover to observe again.

For general AEG use a cheap pair of binocs might be better than a scope so you can scan without moving your body too much.

If you do decide to try a scope then I'd keep it to 2x

More magnification means less chance of hitting what you're aiming at.

 

Others may have different opinions...

 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by EDcase

[RostokMcSpoons]

I tried a 4x32 scope on my M4... spent ages buying scope mounts to get a comfy height, strongly thought about upgrading to a better scope before even trying it, played a morning with it on and switched back to a red dot.

It seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

The experience hasn't stopped me from considering another experiment, but I'd probably want to try a scope with zoom, preferably all the way back to 1X, and with a red dot style reticule, so I can play 'normally' when I'm in a hurry to get to an objective.  The problem is that such scopes are much more expensive than even the 3-6x40 style that you can pick up quite cheaply off eBay. 
So it probably won't happen.

I may try the scope again, as my playstyle has evolved a bit since that first attempt (it's now slower, measured stalking, rather than a blind rush to the front-line)

 

[Lozart]

43 minutes ago, Harvem said:

So when playing outdoors I often notice that I find it very hard to spot enemies. My team mates will often spot enemies that I cannot seem to spot myself at all. This weekend I played in a dense forest and I really struggled to find the enemy. I got shot so many times without any idea where the shots came from.

So this got me thinking. I play with a regular red dot (one of these), maybe I should switch to a zoom optic? Would that make it easier to scan around for enemies and spot them? But then we're playing at such short ranges, especially with an AEG, that it seems strange to use a zoomed optic for that? Any advice?

Also any recommendations for a specific zoomed optic are greatly appreciated.

 

I know exactly what you mean having struggled with this myself!

 

As others have already suggested it's not always about needing magnification but knowing what you're actually looking for. Most people will look for a person shaped thing to identify as a person. In woodland games you need to look for movement, colours that don't quite match up with the surroundings, strangely angular things in a natural environment. Now, a magnified optic may help you learn what you're looking for by making it a bit easier to see, but building up situational awareness and knowing what to look for is something that just has to be learned over time.

[Hudson]

Taking it in a different route, do you wear glasses?

 

If not, how's your vision, and have you had an eye test recently?

It could be something as simple as that.

 

I struggled with spotting people at a distance for a while, until I finally found out I needed glasses.

They made a world of difference once I did though!

[Floperator]

I agree with all the above about situational awareness (also when did you last have an eye test?), but I also very much like using a magnified optic myself. You don't want anything more than 4x maximum on an AEG, and ideally something with a wide field of view, but I find it invaluable, not just for shooting accurately but for spotting.

[THE CHIEF]

Had this discussion with a chap at work who has started playing. Do I need a scope? I don't care for them personally. At the range we shoot they just give you tunnel vision. Waiting in an ambush position looking through an acog or similar with give you a very narrow window to spot something. With out it you're peripheral vision will help you spot much more. If you use mesh that can make things harder. Maybe some yellow tint lenses or prescription inserts if you need them. 

[Rogerborg]

Opinions vary, as you can see, but they're worth a try.  I enjoy everything from comically vague "iron" sights through decent peep-and-post sights, reflex, dots, and a cheap "3x42" optic on AEGs.  Although Chinese 3s and 42s must not be as big as Western numbers, it seems more like 1.5 - 2x, which is actually about right.

 

The variety is fun, and you can train yourself up to elite operator ninja level to look past the optic with one eye while nailing headshot after headshot at 70m with the other.

 

I'm a proponent of buying cheap first to see if you enjoy the experience, and then considering investing in something decent.  You could even try one of the sub-£10 flip-to-side 3x magnifiers, although they're really for novelty purposes, and won't line up well with your current reflex sight.

[Adolf Hamster]

22 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

won't line up well with your current reflex sight, or at all the moment you flip/unflip it.

 

ftfy

 

imo if you're gonna run magnified stacked is the way to go, although you'll probably find yourself using the dot for 99.9% of engagements anyway.

[Fatboy40]

I run one of these and swap it between my DMR and AEG...

 

https://www.combatsouth.co.uk/element-aim-o-g33-magnifier-x3-black/

 

... and went for this one as it's an EOTECH rip-off using the better mount that has less wobble, and it's been a magic bullet for me.

 

My biggest ever kill streak, easily 20 plus, was using it on my AEG in a forest when I was in a nice spot where people wouldn't expect anyone to be. I could spot shapes moving behind bushes well before they got in range, and could then lob a few BB's in their path and they just walked into them, which I couldn't have done with the flip to side to spot them.

 

And maybe I'm a little lucky but it's worked perfectly with my EOTECH clone red dot and dirt cheap £30 smaller red dot, I've not had to make any adjustments at all.

[kasaran]

3 minutes ago, Fatboy40 said:

I run one of these and swap it between my DMR and AEG...

 

https://www.combatsouth.co.uk/element-aim-o-g33-magnifier-x3-black/

 

... and went for this one as it's an EOTECH rip-off using the better mount that has less wobble, and it's been a magic bullet for me.

 

My biggest ever kill streak, easily 20 plus, was using it on my AEG in a forest when I was in a nice spot where people wouldn't expect anyone to be. I could spot shapes moving behind bushes well before they got in range, and could then lob a few BB's in their path and they just walked into them, which I couldn't have done with the flip to side to spot them.

 

And maybe I'm a little lucky but it's worked perfectly with my EOTECH clone red dot and dirt cheap £30 smaller red dot, I've not had to make any adjustments at all.

 

Funnily enough I have been looking at the tan version of this to pair with my theta brand holo sight.  So worth the £60 then?  Been debating that or the slightly cheaper offerings on AliExpress 

[Davegolf]

Like the yanks say… SLLS

 

Stop, Look, Listen, Smell

 

Staying put briefly, and scanning with your eyes rather than looking intentionally the human brain picks up movement much faster, if you think you saw something then chances are you did.

 

Unless you’re well concealed don’t stay put for too long.

 

If you can smell an air softer it’s probably one of those dirty gillie bush twats 😂

Back on original Q, magnification is good for checking ahead 100M, a decent scope will penetrate dimly light areas and shadows.

 

2-4x mag is good for 60M+ fire, any less and dot sight.

So a stacked setup is best, and looks legit seeing as that’s what we all want 😁

[Floperator]

It has to be said that using a scope effectively takes both practice and some luck/knowledge when it comes to gunfit and scope alignment. Possibly why, valid preferences aside, some don't get on with it or don't give it a chance when it doesn't work for them first time.

A largeish eyebox (the physical space where your eye can be and get a sight picture through the scope) should probably be added to the list of attributes an 'assault' scope should have. If you can't mount up and immediately find that eyebox then you're gonna have a bad time. I tried a leapers 'bugbuster' clone airgun scope on my G36c when I first took it out; it was totally unsuitable - too narrow a field of view, too small an eyebox. So you need the *right* scope. And mounted in such a way and with the stock adjusted so that you can mount the rifle with your eyes closed, open them, and have a clear sight picture every time without having to adjust your head to get it.

This isn't always easy to achieve with certain gun setups, it's certainly not likely to happen by chance by putting any old scope and any mounts on any gun.

 

Through whatever combination of factors (the main one being that it's designed for this gun I suppose) the (goodish clone) ACOG on my M4 specifically really works for me, so I suppose I should give that caveat.

 

Oddly although I've used it plenty in the past, I went through the whole of Sundays game without shooting through the dot at all - spent the whole day looking through the scope, just found it more practical.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Floperator

[Fatboy40]

14 minutes ago, kasaran said:

 

Funnily enough I have been looking at the tan version of this to pair with my theta brand holo sight.  So worth the £60 then?  Been debating that or the slightly cheaper offerings on AliExpress 

 

I spent far too long evening after evening looking at all the various options, and finally decided on this and don't regret the purchase one bit, especially at only £60 (if they did a 5x one, if that would be possible, I'd snap that up as well).

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

What do RS users use for running/hiding/slinking game in forests?   Usually a 1-4x20 scope with simple illuminated reticle.

 

Use it both eyes open and practise your mount.  Set to a low magnification, it will improve your spotting and hitting in deep cover with practice.

 

Fieldcraft is still king though.  Where would you appear if you were the opposing team?  Look there and look for horizontal lines.  Nature goes up, humans hold rifs horizontally.

 

 

[Harvem]

Lots of different opinions here, thanks for all the input!

 

18 hours ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

 

I tried a 4x32 scope on my M4... spent ages buying scope mounts to get a comfy height, strongly thought about upgrading to a better scope before even trying it, played a morning with it on and switched back to a red dot.

It seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

The experience hasn't stopped me from considering another experiment, but I'd probably want to try a scope with zoom, preferably all the way back to 1X, and with a red dot style reticule, so I can play 'normally' when I'm in a hurry to get to an objective.  The problem is that such scopes are much more expensive than even the 3-6x40 style that you can pick up quite cheaply off eBay. 
So it probably won't happen.

I may try the scope again, as my playstyle has evolved a bit since that first attempt (it's now slower, measured stalking, rather than a blind rush to the front-line)

 

 

Novritsch sells a 1-4X scope, so that might be worth checking out? And there's also some cheaper options than Nov, like this one for example: https://www.taiwangun.com/scopes/victoptics-zod-1-4x20-riflescope-vector-optics

 

17 hours ago, Hudson said:

Taking it in a different route, do you wear glasses?

 

If not, how's your vision, and have you had an eye test recently?

It could be something as simple as that.

 

I struggled with spotting people at a distance for a while, until I finally found out I needed glasses.

They made a world of difference once I did though!

 

Yes I wear glasses, and I got my eyes checked last year when I got contact lenses for airsoft. So that should not be the problem, good call though.

 

13 hours ago, Fatboy40 said:

I run one of these and swap it between my DMR and AEG...

 

https://www.combatsouth.co.uk/element-aim-o-g33-magnifier-x3-black/

 

... and went for this one as it's an EOTECH rip-off using the better mount that has less wobble, and it's been a magic bullet for me.

 

My biggest ever kill streak, easily 20 plus, was using it on my AEG in a forest when I was in a nice spot where people wouldn't expect anyone to be. I could spot shapes moving behind bushes well before they got in range, and could then lob a few BB's in their path and they just walked into them, which I couldn't have done with the flip to side to spot them.

 

And maybe I'm a little lucky but it's worked perfectly with my EOTECH clone red dot and dirt cheap £30 smaller red dot, I've not had to make any adjustments at all.

 

Would that work with an open red dot that looks like this? Or would the distance between the magnifier and the dot be too big you think?

 

I might get the cheap magnifier, or go for one of the 1-4 scopes, so I can easily switch between no zoom and 2 or 3 times zoom. Or I might get a cheap monocular... lots to think about!

 

 

[Lozart]

3 hours ago, Harvem said:

Lots of different opinions here, thanks for all the input!

 

 

Novritsch sells a 1-4X scope, so that might be worth checking out? And there's also some cheaper options than Nov, like this one for example: https://www.taiwangun.com/scopes/victoptics-zod-1-4x20-riflescope-vector-optics

 

 

Yes I wear glasses, and I got my eyes checked last year when I got contact lenses for airsoft. So that should not be the problem, good call though.

 

 

Would that work with an open red dot that looks like this? Or would the distance between the magnifier and the dot be too big you think?

 

I might get the cheap magnifier, or go for one of the 1-4 scopes, so I can easily switch between no zoom and 2 or 3 times zoom. Or I might get a cheap monocular... lots to think about!

 

 

 

 

Definitely look at the victoptics one instead of the Nov one. Very good glass for the price.

 

The G33 style magnifier is designed to work with eotech style sights so I doubt it would line up properly with that red dot. I do have both though so I can set them up and check if you like?

[Harvem]

26 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

Definitely look at the victoptics one instead of the Nov one. Very good glass for the price.

 

The G33 style magnifier is designed to work with eotech style sights so I doubt it would line up properly with that red dot. I do have both though so I can set them up and check if you like?

 

Would be very nice to know whether that would work or not!

[Lozart]

43 minutes ago, Harvem said:

 

Would be very nice to know whether that would work or not!

 

Ask and ye shall receive:

 

This is how it should be (with an eotech style sight)

 

So basically the magnifier sits way too high to use with the open style reflex sights. You can pretty much just see the top frame of the sight in the magnifier.

[Harvem]

15 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

Ask and ye shall receive:

...

 

This is how it should be (with an eotech style sight)

...

 

So basically the magnifier sits way too high to use with the open style reflex sights. You can pretty much just see the top frame of the sight in the magnifier.

 

Thanks a lot! Guess I'll go for a 1-4x scope instead then 😁

[Lozart]

1 hour ago, Harvem said:

 

Thanks a lot! Guess I'll go for a 1-4x scope instead then 😁

 

Fair play. Certainly look at the Victoptics scopes, they are very good for the price. I have one on my SCAR and the slightly more expensive Vector Optics one on my M14 EBR. If anything the Victoptics one is better as it's a First Focal Plane scope (not sure if the one you linked to is).

[Impulse]

Have you heard the word of the LPVO? (Low Power Variable Optic)

 

I love LPVOs on my "regular" rifles. You can use it like a red dot, setting it to 1x and looking down the rifle with both eyes open, but having that flexibility to go up to 4x, 6x or even 8x is great for those long range shots and also reconnaissance stuff.

 

I only use red dots on my SMGs. All my rifles have some sort of variable zoom optic.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Impulse

[Lozart]

38 minutes ago, Impulse said:

Have you heard the word of the LPVO? (Low Power Variable Optic)

 

I love LPVOs on my "regular" rifles. You can use it like a red dot, setting it to 1x and looking down the rifle with both eyes open, but having that flexibility to go up to 4x, 6x or even 8x is great for those long range shots and also reconnaissance stuff.

 

I only use red dots on my SMGs. All my rifles have some sort of variable zoom optic.

 

The victoptics scope being discussed is an LPVO.

[Harvem]

3 hours ago, Lozart said:

 

Fair play. Certainly look at the Victoptics scopes, they are very good for the price. I have one on my SCAR and the slightly more expensive Vector Optics one on my M14 EBR. If anything the Victoptics one is better as it's a First Focal Plane scope (not sure if the one you linked to is).

 

I went with the Aim-O 1-4x24 scope. I found it quite cheap at a more local shop, and it looks very similar to the Victoroptics one.