CQB'ers being ripped off ?

[Tackle]

hey guys, just reading the latest review of bunker51, a "site", if you can call it that ?, that I'll never play, & it got me thinking about this pattern of tiny little cqb playing areas that are charging more for 3 hours than many regular sites charge fir 7-8 hours.

seems like they're ripping off players, especially new/young players, just by calling it cqb ?.

the mall, longmoor, rype village etc etc, they're cqb sites, & a whole lot more.

am I wrong, or just spoilt lol ?

[Tiercel]

I've never been to B51 even though I'm also in London, for exactly this reason. Maybe I'm missing out, but I begrudge paying so much and going all the way there when the travel there/back is probably longer than the game time.

[Asomodai]

7 hours ago, Tackle said:

hey guys, just reading the latest review of bunker51, a "site", if you can call it that ?, that I'll never play, & it got me thinking about this pattern of tiny little cqb playing areas that are charging more for 3 hours than many regular sites charge fir 7-8 hours.

seems like they're ripping off players, especially new/young players, just by calling it cqb ?.

the mall, longmoor, rype village etc etc, they're cqb sites, & a whole lot more.

am I wrong, or just spoilt lol ?

 

B51's rent is pretty sky high being in London even if its a hole, they do have a monopoly being the closest site to central London

 

However they are full most weekends so it doesn't seem to put off most. I only play there to keep my Ukara ticking over. 

[heroshark]

Nail on the head it's about rents. I have a little cqb in my town but it's not that expensive due to being in a small market town. That said it is more expensive for what you get going to more isolated sites. Just the nature of property and location. 

[Tackle]

I get the rents bit, but in some cases even that's questionable when you consider the so called "sites" are nothing more than derelict buildings, most likely awaiting demolition or refurbishment, should the right offer come along or permissions be granted, so are not likely to be subject to business rates etc.

even so, doesn't explain why you only get 3 hours fir your money, unless the sites are so small that spending any longer there will get boring & run out of scenario's ?.

although triple A in dover run morning & afternoon sessions, more exploitation ?.

 

I think I'm a bit spoilt by the exceptional sites out there, & a bit cynical about the rest of them.

our old favourite the mall is a great example of all the positives.

[Asomodai]

34 minutes ago, Tackle said:

I get the rents bit, but in some cases even that's questionable when you consider the so called "sites" are nothing more than derelict buildings, most likely awaiting demolition or refurbishment, should the right offer come along or permissions be granted, so are not likely to be subject to business rates etc.

even so, doesn't explain why you only get 3 hours fir your money, unless the sites are so small that spending any longer there will get boring & run out of scenario's ?.

although triple A in dover run morning & afternoon sessions, more exploitation ?.

 

I think I'm a bit spoilt by the exceptional sites out there, & a bit cynical about the rest of them.

our old favourite the mall is a great example of all the positives.

 

I do get what you mean. There should be better value for money, but with the lack of ANY central London alternatives let alone good ones, B51 will continue to be in use. It sells out most weeks, so some people must think its good enough for the money! I'd rather it was there then not

 

The mall was definitely an exception. 

[heroshark]

Even looking at bigger sites like the mall it's a sliding scale. I can't remember the cost of a days gaming at the mall but I went many moons ago remember it being £40ish and I know it increased over time. Where as some where like camp sparta up my way which is massive in comparison is £30 in our current financial climate.

[Asomodai]

7 minutes ago, heroshark said:

Even looking at bigger sites like the mall it's a sliding scale. I can't remember the cost of a days gaming at the mall but I went many moons ago remember it being £40ish and I know it increased over time. Where as some where like camp sparta up my way which is massive in comparison is £30 in our current financial climate.

 

Problem with B51 is that the rent will keep going up the longer its in use as per standard policy of landlords, but the amount of players that can use it stays the same. The money has to come from somewhere and as long as people are willing to pay for it B51 stays open. 

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

4 minutes ago, heroshark said:

Even looking at bigger sites like the mall it's a sliding scale. I can't remember the cost of a days gaming at the mall but I went many moons ago remember it being £40ish and I know it increased over time. Where as some where like camp sparta up my way which is massive in comparison is £30 in our current financial climate.

Mall used to be £35 and went up to £37 for the last couple of years. 

 

The rent on that place was massive, add that to the fact all staff were paid it's overheads were very high.

 

[Musica]

CQB fields have a hard limit on players they can have on site for things like fire regulations which already tops out their profits even if they are full every game day they already know how much they can make. 

 

CQB fields often have to pay more for their location than a remote site in the middle of nowhere. Electrical costs, maintenance costs, broken windows, light bulbs, patching leaking roofs, cleaning up the 1000s of bbs on the floor so you can replace them with your mag dumps. 

 

Meanwhile my local outdoor site can't even be arsed ordering a portaloo for people to shit in. 

 

[Druid799]

Just had a look and ? T’is a difficult one , fully accept the location/utilities costs argument but £25 for 3hrs ? Bit fruity to say the least ! Even with super fast turnarounds (Yea right !🤦‍♂️) your not going to get a lot of down range time out of your 3hrs are you ? 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Musica said:

. Meanwhile my local outdoor site can't even be arsed ordering a portaloo for people to shit in. 

 

In this situation I’d go once and never again , and I’d post up on there Facebook page why . 

[Rogerborg]

4 hours ago, Tackle said:

I get the rents bit, but in some cases even that's questionable when you consider the so called "sites" are nothing more than derelict buildings, most likely awaiting demolition or refurbishment, should the right offer come along or permissions be granted, so are not likely to be subject to business rates etc.

 

If the roof's still on, they're rateable.

 

Can't speak to the Englandshire situation, but in Scotchland they've sacked off most of the discounted rates for "empty" properties (50% for 3 months then back up to 90%).  At the moment you can still get full relief if it cannot be occupied: roof's off / floor's missing / infested by rabid crocodiles or similar.

 

However, they are going to be switching to ground rents so that even if your empty warehouse "accidentally" burns down, they'll still come after the owner.

 

There are some commercial properties up here that folk literally can't give away, as they're such huge liabilities.

[Seth_Erebor]

Hard to have new ideas, you need a lot to play with to do that.

[CrackCommandoUnit1972]

On 14/08/2019 at 10:10, Musica said:

CQB fields have a hard limit on players they can have on site for things like fire regulations which already tops out their profits even if they are full every game day they already know how much they can make. 

 

CQB fields often have to pay more for their location than a remote site in the middle of nowhere. Electrical costs, maintenance costs, broken windows, light bulbs, patching leaking roofs, cleaning up the 1000s of bbs on the floor so you can replace them with your mag dumps. 

 

Meanwhile my local outdoor site can't even be arsed ordering a portaloo for people to shit in. 

 

 

They should get people to shit into cling film and carry it round with them for that unique mil sim experience.

[Jaylordofwaargh]

Fast game then around is what I hear (from qcb site runners) as the main reason for comparative rates to woodland days. I would also like to call bs on this, however get to play there, I just know from smaller woodland sites that tea takes priority

[witchcraft58a]

I go to strikeforce in Glos as my local cqb, I think they do a good job, pretty much all day sun or Thurs evenings for a few hours. I think prices are reasonable for what you get, but then again I've already bought all the kit........

[Tackle]

On 14/08/2019 at 10:10, Musica said:

CQB fields have a hard limit on players they can have on site for things like fire regulations which already tops out their profits even if they are full every game day they already know how much they can make. 

 

CQB fields often have to pay more for their location than a remote site in the middle of nowhere. Electrical costs, maintenance costs, broken windows, light bulbs, patching leaking roofs, cleaning up the 1000s of bbs on the floor so you can replace them with your mag dumps. 

 

Meanwhile my local outdoor site can't even be arsed ordering a portaloo for people to shit in. 

 

Yeah, all very obvious reasons for the pricing that I was aware of, but I think my issue is with the time, personally if I have to find the  time to get my kit together & schlep to a site, I don't just want a couple of hours (or less ?)  gameplay which is likely when you take in to account safety briefings & intervals between games.

by the same degree, if it's a legendary well run cqb site with space & unique features, then I'm happy to pay more for a full day pro-rata.

i think tiny sites like B51 run such short sessions because anything longer will become boring & monotonous pretty quickly, the lack of space leaving little room for improvement with regards to game scenarios, & prob the only reason it gets it numbers is a young client base possibly reliant on the considerable public transport links & the fact there's not much else to choose from within the city.

 

 

[Rogerborg]

Smaller = higher intensity too.  No long slow walks back respawn, it's BAM! and you're back in sharpish.  Even speedsofters need regular breaks to top up their taurine levels.

[Albiscuit]

On 23/09/2019 at 21:38, Tackle said:

Yeah, all very obvious reasons for the pricing that I was aware of, but I think my issue is with the time, personally if I have to find the  time to get my kit together & schlep to a site, I don't just want a couple of hours (or less ?)  gameplay which is likely when you take in to account safety briefings & intervals between games.

by the same degree, if it's a legendary well run cqb site with space & unique features, then I'm happy to pay more for a full day pro-rata.

i think tiny sites like B51 run such short sessions because anything longer will become boring & monotonous pretty quickly, the lack of space leaving little room for improvement with regards to game scenarios, & prob the only reason it gets it numbers is a young client base possibly reliant on the considerable public transport links & the fact there's not much else to choose from within the city.

 

 

 

Pretty much this, bunker is tiny. There are only so many defend that wall or find the flag scenarios you can take before it’s boring. 

Its so damn small. And smelly!! 

 

It it is a laugh to play, but I could never make it a regular site. 

 

But as you say, people are using it and it is convenient for Londoners and has transport links so they are big pluses, but it also does a lot of trade with laser tag and paintball, parties etc.. but I would imagine running a site like that has a lot more overheads than a woodland site!!

 

But to answer the original question, I get that cqb sites are more expensive due to overheads but I love playing cqb more than woodland so i would be very happy spending 40quid on a good indoor site as a regular venue!! 

[MAX DICKER]

I can certainly see Tackles' point with regards to you only getting 3 hours play for you money. Personally I much prefer CQB and expect to pay more for playing at such sites. However, as Rogerborg pointed out, CQB sites are much higher intensity and it's possible to get as much action into a few hours at a CQB site than all day at a large outdoor site. This is certainly my experience anyway.

 

It really is down to personal preference. I've not played B51, but I'd definitely give it a go. But I suppose someone who prefers big outdoor sites with maybe the occasional bit of CQB would probably give it a miss.

 

Also, seems like B51 has the monopoly on airsofting in London? That always gives people a good excuse to bump prices a bit....

[Immortal]

The stench of Bunker 51 has made me never go there ever again. It took 3 days to get rid of it - multiple showers and clean clothes made no difference! Gross... otherwise a fun site on the novelty scale - being an old bunker makes it cool.

[Rogerborg]

I kneeled on - or more precisely, in - the putrefying remains of a  dead pigeon at the Depot last Sunday.

 

The lazy rats should have cleaned it up that long before it reached that stage.  You just can't find vermin with a work ethic these days.

[Musica]

6 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

I kneeled on - or more precisely, in - the putrefying remains of a  dead pigeon at the Depot last Sunday.

 

The lazy rats should have cleaned it up that long before it reached that stage.  You just can't find vermin with a work ethic these days.

in or near stairwell f?

[MAX DICKER]

Pretty sure there was a fresh dead pigeon near the top of a stairwell last time I played at The Depot a few months ago

[CrackCommandoUnit1972]

9 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

I kneeled on - or more precisely, in - the putrefying remains of a  dead pigeon at the Depot last Sunday.

 

The lazy rats should have cleaned it up that long before it reached that stage.  You just can't find vermin with a work ethic these days.

 

Come now, you love a bit of rotting pigeon in the morning.