What's wrong in Airsoft (positive)

[Seth_Erebor]

Hey Guys,

 

I'd like to hear about all the things that frustrate you either on or off the field, it could about sites, retailers or manufacturers, anything.

 

Let's keep it light, it's feedback for myself not a bashing or ranting thread, thank you!

If at all possible, comment the once so that everyone can scan through it quickly, bullet points would be handy.

 

Looking forward to reading your thoughts.

 

---

 

So far:

 

• Walts
• Non-hit taking rental players
• Brambles aka dangerous terrain
• Losing kit on the field
• Early start time (assuming most sites close doors/gates around 9/10am)
• Tactical Squirrels?
• Inconsistent and poor Customer Service
• Unimaginative games, lack of objectives and rambling briefings
• Players standing around, back seat operators
• Lack of command and control
• Out of stock notices post order/payment
• Lack of stock in general
• Safety briefings done per visit, not per player (as in hear it once and done)
• Unprofessional Marshals
• AFK players on the field
• Players unfamiliar with their kit/rif
• Overly complex/simple games (simple rules with a challenge)
• No benches/tables in the safe zone
• Poor quality websites and advertising
• Joule Creep
• Team Killers
• Dead men talking
• Stuff breaking/not working on the day
• Cheap Chinese knock offs at high prices
• High prices when other countries are far cheaper

[Tackle]

That's easy, Walts, not just those who claim to been involved in the military, also those who believe their own hype when it comes to airsoft, ITS A FECKIN GAME😉

[MisterG]

Had a few rentals in God mode over the weekend, but the marshals sorted it.

 

I hate brambles with a passion.

 

Every skirmish I lose or break something, but that's more operator error than airsoft 😉

 

 

[Immortal]

Waking up at stupid o'clock...

[Nick G]

6 minutes ago, Tackle said:

That's easy, Walts, not just those who claim to been involved in the military, also those who believe their own hype when it comes to airsoft, ITS A FECKIN GAME😉

Very little that isn't covered by this ! We are all playing dress up and running around shooting each other with our toy guns !

 

I did get taken out by a tree the other week when it dropped an acorn on me, hand up shouting 'hit' before I realised ! Could have been a tactical squirrel I guess  

[E21A]

Hit and miss customer service from Airsoft retailers 

[CiderPunk]

Boring unimaginative games that take too long, e.g. this weekend we played defend and fallback, we had three positions to hold, I, in all my tactical glory, got knocked out in the first 5 mins of each by snipers, it took the enemy team half an hour to clear each position 'cos their snipers don't move much, and my teams snipers hid in the thick bushes. net result i got a total of 15 out of 90 mins game time sat in various puddles with my goggles steaming up waiting for them to turn up.

About three quarter of players went home immediately after - a whole hour early!

 

Could have been mitigated by giving the opposition a focus to attack, e.g. get to a bomb or

something.

 

[skintrade]

YouTube 'celebs' making sniping seem like the only thing worth doing...

 

Here's a positive tho, YTslebs encouraging people to play

[Prisce]

All of the above can be summed up in 1 word.

 

People. 

 

The same thing that is wrong with absolutely everything.

[Rogerborg]

The amount of not playing airsoft that goes on while playing airsoft.

 

Late starts.  Rambling briefings, interrupted by repeated shouts to shut up and listen.  "10 minute" breaks that run for 20 minutes or more.  Folk who only start bombing up when they get the call to leave the safe zone.  Unnecessarily long slogs to the objectives, or back to respawn.  Spawn clocks that leave you sitting around for another 5 minutes after your long slog to respawn.  Folk who are mostly there for the dress up or the gossip or the shouting rather than just playing the game.

 

Actually playing airsoft with and against people who want to actually play airsoft is ace.  I think we should do a lot more of that when we're playing airsoft.

[Druid799]

26 minutes ago, CiderPunk said:

Boring unimaginative games that take too long, e.g. this weekend we played defend and fallback, we had three positions to hold, I, in all my tactical glory, got knocked out in the first 5 mins of each by snipers, 

To be fair mate it’s not the sites fault your a crap player ? 😉

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

yea do get your point though , most skirmish games are some variation on attack and defend BUT playing devils advocate is there really any point in trying to put more effort on the sites behalf in to gameplay scenarios ? as we all know you have the game brief , you move to your start points , someone suggests a strategy for it , most agree it’s a good idea , marshal shouts game on !

And what happens next ? It’s like when the senior pilot in the red arrows say “break ! break !” And the planes split . Everyone runs off in totally different directions completely ignoring the ‘plan’!🤦‍♂️ 

Who ever invented the phrase ‘herding cats’ was obviously an airsofter ! 😳

 

My my biggest bugbear ? Shit retailer web sites ! “Ooh I like that ! I shall order that !” Several hrs later an email arrives “high (insert name) I’m sorry the xyz you ordered is out of stock but it’s due in the next delivery (yea right !) so we’ll send it off to you then .” 🤬

[CiderPunk]

39 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

To be fair mate it’s not the sites fault your a crap player ? 😉

IKR.

 

40 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

BUT playing devils advocate is there really any point in trying to put more effort on the sites behalf in to gameplay scenarios ?

 

when you have 20+ players standing around for 25 mins twiddling their thumbs you're doing something wrong

[Samurai]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

The amount of not playing airsoft that goes on while playing airsoft.

• ^^That
• Insurance companies

[Wo1f]

Nothing I want being in stock anywhere on earth.

 

having to listen to the same 20min safety brief every week for 2 years.

 

people turning up to events that don’t suit their play style and then moan they don’t like it. 

 

2nd hand sales threads written by the delusional..

 

the best positive would be most of the airsoft community are like the motorcycle community. Nice, friendly bunch of people who will happily talk to a stranger for 2 hours about their shared hobby 

[Druid799]

1 hour ago, CiderPunk said:

when you have 20+ players standing around for 25 mins twiddling their thumbs you're doing something wrong

Totally agree with you on that point not acceptable at all , no I was referring to including any level of complexity in to the game scenario , seen it time and time again a site try’s to put a ‘twist’ on the normal run of the mill scurmish games to make it more interesting , AND they come crashing down due to players not listening/understanding or just not caring about the how’s and were fore’s of the game plan , they just won’t to shoot others that’s all . Unless it’s a specifically themed day you really do need to keep it as simple as possible . 

[Hami]

 

a little too unprofessional marshals, I get we're all here for some airsoft and laughs but I don't want a comedy show during briefings cutting into my game time 

[Immortal]

Players that are clueless to the realistic range of their RIF and then go onto foam at the mouth insisting they hit you just because they had you in their sights...

[sonofsammo]

Lunch hour.
I mean, seriously, wtf? How long does it take to get some scran down yer gullet and get back to the pewpew?
One sixth of the game day lost to lunch is ridickerous.

Taking my hits from raindrops.

People not taking hits from my rif and saying it's raindrops.
 

Non hit taking anyone (not just rentals)

Airsoft meters

Bad toilets

Losing kit on the field (although, this allows a positive of airsoft - other players finding your kit and handing it in)

[Adolf Hamster]

i think for me it's people who don't have the basic principles of sportsmanship, particularly:

 

non hit takers- seriously if you wanna shoot stuff but not get shot back then there's ipsc and the like, just get out of our hobby, get out and don't come back, we don't want you, you're not welcome, i'd continue pointing out how unwelcome godmode is in airsoft but i'd get banned for excessive use of english vernacular. also just because it's friendly fire doesn't mean you don't call it.

 

overshooters- now there's a line here, we've all fired a burst or follow up shot that's been in the air and connected after the fact, and that's fine. likewise a single close up shot from a pistol does not being a dick make (especially given the general controversy over the bang rule), but i've seen some real poor shows of overshooting in my time and it's not cool, you shoot until you get the hit call and that's that, likewise if you haven't made a decent show of sticking your hand up and shouting hit then expect to get shot at and don't get salty when you get fired at because people thought you were in play.

 

hot guns- now we can debate all we like what site limits should be, how they should be measured, and what's acceptable, but i have a particular dislike for people who push the limits that are there. what you're doing is making sure you have an unfair advantage. generally i've found that the people running hot guns aren't the ones who stay back and try to conceal it by being sneaky at their unfair extended range but the ones that pop out of a hedge and hose down their opponents at 6 feet.

 

expecting rules to be in play just because that's what you're used to, this follows into my list of bugbears for a site, but i dislike when players start complaining about a rule that's not in play (the most common one being no headshots) at the site. this is a failure both of the site to explain what rules are in play and the players not bothering to pay attention to the site when they mention it.

 

i'll not comment on walts, been fortunate to not have to deal with them, although the concept of stolen honour disgusts me.

 

now for sites, ooh boy i've a few bones to pick.

 

1. publish the rules, on paper, so everybody is clear. i don't care wether bang rules are enforced, voluntary or banned, i don't care if full auto is allowed indoors or not, i don't care what the fps limit is specifically, but i do care about knowing where i stand so i can at least conduct myself properly.

 

2. marshall, as in actually do it, have enough staff to walk around the site, look for cheaters, take a pistol and do honesty shots make sure people are calling it and if people are blatantly cheating then get them off the field and if it's persisting then PERMANENTLY BAN THEM, if your marshals are:

a. checking facebook in-game

b. standing in a quiet corner having a natter with their mates

c. responding to accusations of foul play by replying "oh that is bad isn't it" or "nature of the beast mate"

then you need to either pay them more, or find other marshals

 

3. chrono properly, read up on joule creep and how to detect it, use the site's ammo don't just trust the word of the player, publish your limits in joules and have all the marshals carrying a chrono, if you get complaints on the field then get them chrono'd right there without giving them a chance to switch mags/twiddle regulators/swap springs or whatever method they've used to cheat the original chrono. i've noted too many sites chrono people just at the start, with 1 gun, and don't seem to care if that same person is spotted later on with a different gun, hell i once went through 3 rifles in 1 match due to mechanical difficulties and nobody challenged me to chrono the second 2. also chrono pistols and not just the co2 ones, i have 4 pistols and my co2 one is the weakest hitting of the lot and i know enough about this game that a tiny pistol can be made to fire as hot as you like.

 

4. sort out your spawn points, specifically in terms of spawn protection or at least not having games where it's possible to respawn straight into combat, personally i'm an advocate of having non-spawn games (generally zone based) as it naturally eliminates this, but it's as annoying to be spawn camped as it is to try and take an objective with people in the spawn shooting at you.

 

5. don't have things that "count as hard cover" but actually let bb's through, it really screws with even honest players hit taking trying to figure out what's a legit hit and what just passed through the camo netting that's totally a concrete wall. if the bb hits you it hits you, end of story.

 

6. no favouritism, if there's one thing that'll get me to never return to a site it's when the regular players are allowed to get away with any of the above just because they're regulars, in particular i've noticed it with hot guns and it ain't fun. you wanna have a game with select people with different rules be my guest but the moment you open things up to the public i expect a level playing field when it comes to application of the rules.

[Tiercel]

7 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

3. chrono properly / also chrono pistols and not just the co2 ones, i have 4 pistols and my co2 one is the weakest hitting of the lot and i know enough about this game that a tiny pistol can be made to fire as hot as you like

 

Most sites I play at never bother with gas pistols because theres nothing stopping someone filling up a "chrono mag" with 134a gas, then running on black gas. I recently got a new extended inner barrel for my WE glock, and first game I ever used it at was the AFUK Mall  event, where for the first time they insisted on chronoing pistols too. No problem thought I. I know theyre all well under.

 

Turns out with my new 6.01 barrel thats twice the length of the original running through a suppressor that it clocks in at a cool 390fps on its regular green gas 😱 Good job they did chrono it, or that could have led to some frowny faces! Sadly I didnt bring the original barrel to swap back, so spent the day pistol-less because it wont cycle on anything less than green  

[Skara]

27 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

5. don't have things that "count as hard cover" but actually let bb's through, it really screws with even honest players hit taking trying to figure out what's a legit hit and what just passed through the camo netting that's totally a concrete wall. if the bb hits you it hits you, end of story.

That's what f*cked up our score at the Italian finals..

 

Rule set clearly states that bbs passing through stuff like bushes or soft covers don't count, yet a ref called out two teammates (lost 1000 points because of that, 500 per player, shifting us from 4th overall to 9th..) because they got hit through a bush and didn't call it because of the rule..

 

To me what's wrong in airsoft is retailers deliberately asking ridiculous prices for some items..

I get it's a niche market here in Italy and that everyone's gotta bring bread to the table, but seeing online and proper shops asking €100 for a cheap chinese knock off chest rig really triggers me..

I am looking for itw buckles, they cost 0.75$ in the us per piece, but €3 per piece here.. I get the shipping and taxes, but selling it at 3 times what you actually paid it for is just lame..

 

People not calling hits don't bother me too much, i just hold down the trigger and slightly shift my aim towards their face, at some point pain takes over pride and they somehow call the hit

if they don't we just give them 1 more chance before getting kicked out of the team..

 

oh, and stripping pistons in the middle of an exciting fight, that's something I'd only wish to my worst enemy..

 

newbies that keep asking silly questions about guns and gear all the freaking time, comparing airsoft guns with their real counterparts, sometimes they get on my nerves, but that's me having a low threshold..

[Immortal]

Team Killers (that don't appologise)

 

Dead men talking (giving away positions, pointing, etc)

 

Frozen Rabbits (blocking the path into the action)

 

And a personal favourite; everything works perfectly at home and nothing works on the day.

[Guest Lord Elpus]

Nothing wrong airsoft, I'm an older guy, and every sport/pastime has its crap bits to deal with. It's the people that make the game isn't it? As long as I have a laugh somewhere along the line on the day, either at myself or someone else, I don't really care.

Andy.

[Rogerborg]

53 minutes ago, Tiercel said:

Most sites I play at never bother with gas pistols because theres nothing stopping someone filling up a "chrono mag" with 134a gas

 

It's a valid point, but highlights that there's little point in chrononing anything before playing as it's trivial to power-up, take on a different gun, or just say "Yeah, sure, I chronoed, legit".  Heck, even my basic-bitch JG G36 has an adjustable spring tension.

 

What might stop them is a realistic risk of being chronoed in game and sent home with the hot gun.  I've been chronoed in game once, despite hearing many times that it's likely to happen.  So personally I'd like chronos to be provided at the start of the day as a tool for players who want to use them if we're in doubt, rather than everyone forming a big queue that delays the game start while doing little or nothing to prevent Jerry Joulecreep from taking a hot gun into the game.

 

One marshal at the respawn point, one squeeze of a speedloader into the top of the mag that was actually in the gun, pew, pew, pew, and then either play on, or go home.

[Adolf Hamster]

44 minutes ago, Immortal said:

And a personal favourite; everything works perfectly at home and nothing works on the day.

 

amen brother

 

1 hour ago, Tiercel said:

 

Most sites I play at never bother with gas pistols because theres nothing stopping someone filling up a "chrono mag" with 134a gas, then running on black gas. I recently got a new extended inner barrel for my WE glock, and first game I ever used it at was the AFUK Mall  event, where for the first time they insisted on chronoing pistols too. No problem thought I. I know theyre all well under.

 

Turns out with my new 6.01 barrel thats twice the length of the original running through a suppressor that it clocks in at a cool 390fps on its regular green gas 😱 Good job they did chrono it, or that could have led to some frowny faces! Sadly I didnt bring the original barrel to swap back, so spent the day pistol-less because it wont cycle on anything less than green  

 

yep, and yet my loud scary 1911 clocks in at 260, well, 260 on a good day.

 

6 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

It's a valid point, but highlights that there's little point in chrononing anything before playing as it's trivial to power-up, take on a different gun, or just say "Yeah, sure, I chronoed, legit".  Heck, even my basic-bitch JG G36 has an adjustable spring tension.

 

What might stop them is a realistic risk of being chronoed in game and sent home with the hot gun.  I've been chronoed in game once, despite hearing many times that it's likely to happen.  So personally I'd like chronos to be provided at the start of the day as a tool for players who want to use them if we're in doubt, rather than everyone forming a big queue that delays the game start while doing little or nothing to prevent Jerry Joulecreep from taking a hot gun into the game.

 

One marshal at the respawn point, one squeeze of a speedloader into the top of the mag that was actually in the gun, pew, pew, pew, and then either play on, or go home.

 

well said, some sites are terrible, they don't even get than 328 fps in a .5gbb is worse than 328 on a .2g bb let alone the idea of joule creep and its applications.

 

i suspect the only way we're going to stop joule creep is to move away from using just velocity as a measure and instead work on imparted kinetic energy, because the only way to fairly judge it is to keep a stock of every ammo weight and test each gun with the weight the owner says he's running, and even then he could still switch later on. although any method can ultimately still be cheated.