air soft defence.

[hickok55]

if i where to buy a air soft gun that wasn't two tone and i want to use it in a movie i plan to make on my own would that be a good defence.

[SBoardley]

Drum roll……..

[Tommikka]

27 minutes ago, hickok55 said:

if i where to buy a air soft gun that wasn't two tone and i want to use it in a movie i plan to make on my own would that be a good defence.

Are you a film maker working under a production company with various forms of insurance, indemnity etc?

[Tackle]

Ffs......... How many times will we hear this lame arse fake martin scorsese excuse. 

The answer is likely to be a 99.9% big fat NO. 

Over the years I've seen this asked about 90 times, I've yet to see one of these so called "films" actually get made. 

And breathe 😤

[EDcase]

Before I started playing and being UKARA registered I did actually buy a RIF (MAC10) using the film defence but I had to show proof that I worked in an actual production company.

 

So saying that you want to make your own film will not work...

 

 

Edited April 18, 2022 by EDcase

[Tommikka]

28 minutes ago, hickok55 said:

if i where to buy a air soft gun that wasn't two tone and i want to use it in a movie i plan to make on my own would that be a good defence.

Note that for an airsoft gun purchase any offence under the VCRA is committed by the retailer / seller

The question is “Would a retailer accept my claimed Defence at risk of a considerable fine and/or a custodial sentence?”

 

The added problem of ‘I want to make a film’ is those who have done so in the past attempting to claim waving a gun in the park for YouTube is filmmaking - and  ‘almost proper’ filmmakers getting reported to the police for guns in public.  The odds are increased if you getting ‘caught’ and pointing towards your retailer  

An offence under this section shall be punishable, on summary conviction—

(a)in England and Wales, with imprisonment for a term not exceeding 51 weeks or with a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or with both; and

(b)in Scotland, with imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or with a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or with both.

 

 

A level 5 fine is unlimited (a level 4 fine is limited at £2500, and until 2015 a level 5 fine was up to £5000) 

 

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/36
 

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-material/magistrates-court/item/fines-and-financial-orders/approach-to-the-assessment-of-fines-2/9-maximum-fines/

[Cannonfodder]

Can we shut down new membership requests during school holidays? 

[Rogerborg]

The great thing is, you'll then get to see some real guns up close!

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/student-filmmakers-handcuffed-by-armed-police-while-making-movie-on-streets-of-london-a4282551.html

 

 

[hickok55]

thank you for all the help.

[Rogerborg]

7 hours ago, hickok55 said:

thank you for all the help.

 

This is nothing personal, but we have zero self-interest in helping you.  This is a forum primarily for people who use airsoft guns for their intended purpose, the one behind the defence that we enjoy, and which could be removed on Ministerial whim at any time if RIFs are abused.

 

The very fact that you asked here rather than on a theatrical forum suggests that your intentions are not what you claim.

[hickok55]

.

Edited April 19, 2022 by hickok55

[Shamal]

Are you making a film about armed magicians? Cause that reply disappeared pretty dam quick 🤔

[Tommikka]

1 minute ago, hickok55 said:

no i want to make my own film.

In which case then you don’t qualify under the terms of users of this forum, and under the legislation would need to be under section 37.2 paragraphs c or d

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/37

 

 

c)the production of films (within the meaning of Part 1 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (c. 48)_see section 5B of that Act);

(d)the production of television programmes (within the meaning of the Communications Act 2003 (c. 21)_see section 405(1) of that Act);

 

5b goes into copyright, So you could argue that your intent qualifies, as anything you produce that is copyrightable is within 5b

(However that could just distinguish the various definitions of the word ‘film’ from ‘a film’)

 

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/section/5B
 

405(1) goes into better definition of TV programmes as broadcast etc, which 

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/405

 

With any purchase of RIFs it comes down to whether or not you can justify your intent to a seller.

As noted earlier the seller faces a considerable fine and potential prison time.

I would want to see some form of documentation linking to a production company, and wouldn’t touch an individual with a barge pole.

 

An alternative is via the media department college or university, but they can supply props etc, but as they are interested in the work itself would be happy enough with 2 tones etc

(Note that one example I point to is Jesus Christ Superstar, it’s a film of a film of actors making a student show and they have things such as Roman centurions with steal pot helmets and SMGs

 

 

There is the added risk of things going horribly wrong for you and a further knock on effect for the retailer

See the example shown by @Rogerborg

 

 

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

I've used prop guns in films.   No way I'd want to use anything that could actually shoot.   

[Tommikka]

(As an unrelated / slightly related matter) ……

 

 

Within paintball the UKPSF (representative body for paintball) have recently gone to a barrister to review legislation as a result of recent dealings with the Home Office & Border Force

 

As a result they have changed their position on the sale of paintball guns from a previous couple of possibilities from the Home Office and now recommend that retailers protect themselves by requiring a UKARA style defence using UKPSF player membership 

 

The authorities are paying attention to the sale of gun like things 

[Cannonfodder]

10 hours ago, Shamal said:

Are you making a film about armed magicians? Cause that reply disappeared pretty dam quick 🤔

And I didn't even get to see it before he did the dirty delete. I got a notification he'd quoted me, only to find nothing

17 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

The very fact that you asked here rather than on a theatrical forum suggests that your intentions are not what you claim.

This. The reason for my school holidays commitment is that every time its the school holidays the forum gets new members who think they're clever and can get round the laws around buying rifs, only to throw their toys out of the pram and dissappear when they don't get what they want. 

9 hours ago, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

I've used prop guns in films.   No way I'd want to use anything that could actually shoot.   

Insert Alex Baldwin joke here

[hickok55]

6 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

And I didn't even get to see it before he did the dirty delete. I got a notification he'd quoted me, only to find nothing

This. The reason for my school holidays commitment is that every time its the school holidays the forum gets new members who think they're clever and can get round the laws around buying rifs, only to throw their toys out of the pram and dissappear when they don't get what they want. 

Insert Alex Baldwin joke here

i don't go to school.

[Tackle]

6 minutes ago, hickok55 said:

i don't go to school.

Maybe you should 😜

[Jaylordofwaargh]

On 18/04/2022 at 23:47, Rogerborg said:

The great thing is, you'll then get to see some real guns up close!

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/student-filmmakers-handcuffed-by-armed-police-while-making-movie-on-streets-of-london-a4282551.html

 

 

Thing is with this one, other than the quality of "journalism" as it's the standard, is that they go to film school, and the article says some of them were suspended. For making a film. In film school. 

 

Sure there needed to be a ton of research and permissions sought but....

[Tommikka]

43 minutes ago, Jaylordofwaargh said:

Thing is with this one, other than the quality of "journalism" as it's the standard, is that they go to film school, and the article says some of them were suspended. For making a film. In film school. 

 

Sure there needed to be a ton of research and permissions sought but....

Suspended from film school for making a film in a public place with guns - one of them was suspended, presumably the one running that project, and having failed the lesson on planning 

[Rogerborg]

The thing is, despite it being a phenomenally bad idea, it wasn't actually an offence, as they did have a reasonable excuse, and could presumably prove it.

 

Flipped arsey-versey, our budding Quentin Tarantino here is legally just fine to get his hands on a RIF (assuming 18+) but I rather hope that he doesn't.

[Tommikka]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

The thing it, despite it being a phenomenally bad idea, it wasn't actually an offence, as they did have a reasonable excuse, and could presumably prove it.

 

Flipped arsey-versey, our budding Quentin Tarantino here is legally just fine to get his hands on a RIF (assuming 18+) but I rather hope that he doesn't.

Exactly

 

The stated reason is valid, the actual legislation between VCRAs defences & the legal definition of a film would all fit.

(and are in actual legislation rather than airsoft skirmishing which is an add on)

 

If I were a retailer then I wouldn’t sell a RIF to a random person on the basis of ‘wanting to make a film’

 

But looking at the ‘defences’ that some retailers are taking now this is more compliant with the law.

 

I also would prefer that this doesn’t happen, but if the OP can put a plan together, do things in a safe & controlled manner and avoid a public armed response then fair play to him.

 

An alternative that’s not been mentioned, is involving an airsofter / some airsofters to provide equipment & ‘safety expertise’

 

 

….. and talking with some experience as an international male model & TV star …..

as I advised a lady when her sister was interrogating her about this guy she was dating …

 

 

[Skullchewer]

7 hours ago, Tackle said:

Maybe you should 😜

[hickok55]

8 hours ago, Tackle said:

Maybe you should 😜

maybe you shouldn't go to school.

[Tackle]

48 minutes ago, hickok55 said:

maybe you shouldn't go to school.

Mate, toooooo long, if your gonna hit me with a comeback, it's gotta be quick, I did you literally minutes after you posted, you then saw mine, clicked the "careful now" emoji, & now, 8 hours later you come back, & your response was shit by the way 🤣

What happened, did Miss catch you on your phone & confiscate it until after detention 😢