Border Force Seizure

[Steveocee]

5 hours ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

@Rogerborg - Obviously not a RIF and I will say I like dealing with firesupport, their prices are usually good too but things like this make it difficult not to order from abroad..

 

£35 from Bullseye.

[Shamal]

1 minute ago, BigStew said:

you are involved in a hobby where literally all the essential equipment has to be imported (unless you can tell me of a UK built airsoft gun) and everything is going up in price. Great Britain isn't a country it's an island. voting leave is likely to accelerate the end of the country of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. being a proud English person maybe you don't care. Never understood the hole proud because i was randomly born in a particular country.

I'm not saying I don't buy foreign stuff. We all do but I will only buy it if its in this country at the time I want it ifs not I won't buy it.simple yeah?

You are right,Great Britain is an island and that is what makes us special. 

So how is voting to leave gonna obliterate the centuries of a great manufacturing and production built up by our parents and grandparents? What will happen? Will we just dissappear? Just because you can't get a gat for 10 pounds less? 

I feel sorry for anyone who has no belonging.☹

You don't have to understand pride because it's probably not cool for you. 🇬🇧 

[Adolf Hamster]

forum was only down a few days, surely we're not all bored enough to resort to talking about..... politics......

 

 

[Cr0-Magnon]

1 hour ago, Adolf Hamster said:

forum was only down a few days, surely we're not all bored enough to resort to talking about..... politics......

 

 

Not my fault, haha.

 

2 hours ago, Shamal said:

I feel sorry for anyone who has no belonging.☹

 🇬🇧

Fortunately despite this gun not turning up, I do still have some belongings 

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by Cr0-Magnon

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

2 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

forum was only down a few days, surely we're not all bored enough to resort to talking about..... politics......

 

 

And I thought that I had lowered the tone by talking about pissing on your boots, then someone mentions Brexit...

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

forum was only down a few days

 

... and we woke up in 2016, and are having the exact same "Shut up, thicko gammon" / "Shut up, thicko globalist" handbag fights that were ever so constructive then. 🙄 

[Adolf Hamster]

1 minute ago, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

And I thought that I had lowered the tone by talking about pissing on your boots, then someone mentions Brexit...

 

In fairness the piss discussion was interesting.

 

Now theres a sentence i didnt think i'd be saying today, or, well, ever......

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Shamal said:

I'm not saying I don't buy foreign stuff. We all do but I will only buy it if its in this country at the time I want it ifs not I won't buy it.simple yeah?

You are right,Great Britain is an island and that is what makes us special. 

So how is voting to leave gonna obliterate the centuries of a great manufacturing and production built up by our parents and grandparents? What will happen? Will we just dissappear? Just because you can't get a gat for 10 pounds less? 

I feel sorry for anyone who has no belonging.☹

You don't have to understand pride because it's probably not cool for you. 🇬🇧 

I find it quite amusing how many people use the name “Great Britain” as if it on some way means we are excellent.

 

The name comes from the same root as Greater Manchester and Greater London.

it simple means the immediate outskirts.

The outskirts of Brittany.
Yup, our whole country is only worthy of being called “that bit of land just outside that region of France”

 

🤣🤣🤣

[Druid799]

I’m definitely in the “both sides are trying to screw us over” camp . 
on the one side you have the U.K. Gov(and I don’t care wether it’s the tories or Labour in power they both would pull the same stunt) seeing a new ATM has opened up and they don’t need a card or an account to draw as much money as they want out of it , then on the other side you’ve got the EU who are desperately trying everything they can to stop Brexit having any kind of success no matter how large or small it may be simply because they know if there is any benefit out of it for the U.K. then their whole house of cards will come crashing down and the dream of one super state ruled by France and Germany is dead in the water . 
having spoken to a few different European nationals over the past year or so about it who’ve said how much they want Brexit to work so their own countries can do the same and get out I really do believe this is the EU’s controlling powers game plan .

[Madhouse]

On 23/07/2021 at 23:58, Rogerborg said:

 

... and we woke up in 2016

 

Reminds me of Quantum Leap, wonder if Al would be able to offer any words of wisdom? 😁

[Cromulon1994]

1 hour ago, Madhouse said:

 

Reminds me of Quantum Leap, wonder if Al would be able to offer any words of wisdom? 😁

 

Bet on Iceland to beat england in the euros

 

Invest said money into pfizer.

[garett27]

On 29/06/2021 at 11:13, Cr0-Magnon said:

Just received a letter from BF stating that they've seized a RIF (GBB Pistol) I purchased from Hong Kong retailer. I did specifically instruct the retailer to show my UKARA number on the outside of the package. Whether or not they've done this, I don't know. However I should imagine they've also declared it as "toy parts" or something like they usually do.

I paid via Paypal, so do I have a case for claiming the full-amount back?

 

Also has this happened to anyone else and they've successfully fought it? Doesn't really seem worth it for £150 (especially if I can get a refund).

I guess you paid as goods and services so you can just get your funds back.

[Rogerborg]

3 hours ago, garett27 said:

I guess you paid as goods and services so you can just get your funds back.

 

We hope so, although someone just turned up a rather alarming T&C where PayPal say that they might reject a claim if the seller provided proof of delivery or proof of posting.

 

It seems that Border Farce are picking up on mis-labelled packages now, as that's an easy "win" for them.

[Tommikka]

3 hours ago, garett27 said:

I guess you paid as goods and services so you can just get your funds back.

 

5 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

We hope so, although someone just turned up a rather alarming T&C where PayPal say that they might reject a claim if the seller provided proof of delivery or proof of posting.

 

It seems that Border Farce are picking up on mis-labelled packages now, as that's an easy "win" for them.

 

On 29/06/2021 at 16:13, Cr0-Magnon said:

Just received a letter from BF stating that they've seized a RIF (GBB Pistol) I purchased from Hong Kong retailer. I did specifically instruct the retailer to show my UKARA number on the outside of the package. Whether or not they've done this, I don't know. However I should imagine they've also declared it as "toy parts" or something like they usually do.

I paid via Paypal, so do I have a case for claiming the full-amount back?

 

Also has this happened to anyone else and they've successfully fought it? Doesn't really seem worth it for £150 (especially if I can get a refund).

On the basis that the original post was considering just the easy option of claiming a PayPal refund rather than respond to the seizure then I would opt in the retailers favour - its an import, for which the importer (buyer) is responsible for the border.

 

It could be simply resolved by responding that it’s an airsoft RIF, with a legitimate VCRA defence, the UKARA details should be marked on the packaging and if not then here they are.

It may be an actual seizure or not (depending on the wording, and temporary or not)

 

The retailer has correctly managed to get a package to the UK, complete with contact details for the importer

 

PayPals default option is to side with buyers, but it does side with sellers as well - or even does no fault compensation leaving neither buyer or seller out of pocket

There is of course also the insurance that comes with the postage depending on what options the retailer has and what option the buyer took

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Tommikka said:

its an import, for which the importer (buyer) is responsible for the border.

 

For proving a defence (which isn't the same as being licensed).

 

However, we're not responsible for the labelling, and I'd seen all sorts of "best sport toy electronic gift" style jibba-jabba and random declared value on packaging - which is one reason that I've never risked importing a RIF from Chinaland.

 

As per OP's original threat-o-gram, that's a separate legal problem to whether the item is prohibited. It seems unfair to punish recipients for something outwith our control, but if you don't like it, create your own national scale institutionalised protection racket, I guess.

 

Typically, they don't say which of the three possible reasons is behind the seizure, just "See you in court if you want it, good luck guessing which it is."

[Cr0-Magnon]

Whose responsibility is it to declare the contents of the package 🤔

Edited August 9, 2021 by Cr0-Magnon

[Tommikka]

46 minutes ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

Whose responsibility is it to declare the contents of the package 🤔

The sender is supposed to correctly declare, but the importing recipient gets held liable for what’s found 

Edited August 9, 2021 by Tommikka

[Cr0-Magnon]

1 hour ago, Tommikka said:

The sender is supposed to correctly declare, but the importing recipient gets held liable for what’s found 

 

"Supposed to" means what in this equation. Had it been stopped because I didn't have a valid defence, I wouldn't have made a peep.

 

Anyway, lesson learned.

[EDcase]

For possible future purchases from afar, put your UKARA number in the address field.  That way its definitely going to be on there.

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

2 hours ago, EDcase said:

For possible future purchases from afar, put your UKARA number in the address field.  That way its definitely going to be on there.

Some shitty little weasel from UPS rang me once, and asked what UKARA meant in my address.  He explained, as though conversing with a re-tread, that their driver had become confused by the 'UKARA bit of the address.'   If my parcel did not arrive, 'it was down to incorrect addressing.'  

 

I enquired why UPS seemed to have a monopoly on UKARA imports if the monkeys in the office were unaware what the UKARA number signified.  

 

A few minutes of back and forth ego fuelled bullshit ensued from said over empowered millennial followed by a declaration that the UKARA number was superfluous, 'and should be ignored and henceforth never added to an address ever again, 'if I expected the parcel to be delivered.' '  

 

UPS then, having the address info as requested, delivered the parcel a few doors down.  

 

Since the parcel was being delivered to my work address, and I was exporting gear to oil drilling exploration sites in the middle of nowhere in North Africa, I was unimpressed.   Pre-2012 Libyan customs made the UK look Neanderthal...

 

I don't think it's got much better TBH.   

[Tommikka]

10 hours ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

 

"Supposed to" means what in this equation. Had it been stopped because I didn't have a valid defence, I wouldn't have made a peep.

 

Anyway, lesson learned.

The sender is supposed to on the basis that they are doing the labeling, and are the one making a contract with the carrier so are required to declare by the carrier.  In this case the carrier is more concerned about whether or not the package complies with their terms and conditions such as restricted and prohibited goods.  A package crossing international boundaries will be required to have a customs declaration. 
 

As far as customs are concerned the importer is responsible for the content of the declaration. It is you as the in country buyer / importer that they deal with.  This is the current line of responsibility affecting you

 

If you can establish for certain that the sender did not declare or made false declarations then that supports your claim to charge back

If you are just assuming that then unless customs provide you with the full details then the package may have been fully declared and showing your UKARA reference all as instructed to the sender but customs have chosen to seize. In such case the sender bears no responsibility and has successfully performed their side of the bargain of delivering to this country, and your claim would be a challenge to customs 

[Cr0-Magnon]

I reported it as a misdeclaration issue as that seems most likely. If the retailer wanted to dispute that, then they should have responded to my e-mails and/or the PayPal case.

 

As an importer/buyer/consignee it's my responsibility to ensure I am entitled to import the goods - I am.

The exporter/seller/consignor contracted their carrier to deliver the goods to my door, essentially under Incoterms 2020 DAP. Therefore their responsibility for the goods ends when I take delivery of them at that point.

[colinjallen]

 

11 hours ago, EDcase said:

For possible future purchases from afar, put your UKARA number in the address field.  That way its definitely going to be on there.

This.

Edited August 10, 2021 by colinjallen

[Cr0-Magnon]

28 minutes ago, colinjallen said:

 

This.

 

You can cover it in UKARA wrapping paper, it doesn't make a difference if the seller is declaring it as toy parts rather than a RIF.

[EvilMonkee]

12 hours ago, EDcase said:

For possible future purchases from afar, put your UKARA number in the address field.  That way its definitely going to be on there.

Thats what I do, unfortunately it Taiwangun and Gunfire both ignored it.