What Are People Doing for UKARA Nowadays?

[AlphaBear]

16 minutes ago, jsmithski said:

There are more countries where there’s no airsoft legislation. Does the UKARA really helps keeping the community safe? Australia is a totally different case, their government is mental.

 

The United Kingdom Airsoft Retailers Association was formed in response to the 2006 Violent Crime Reduction bill to enable a safe method of selling Realistic Imitation Firearms (RiF's) to the UK Airsoft player market by confirming the eligibility of purchasers. > Will it keep the community safe? Not at all, but it is there to sell RIFS to legitimate players and therefore acts as a responsible instrument to show the authorities that there is self regulation within our sport.  I believe if there was no UKARA then we would either all be running around with two tones or worse still the whole hobby would be stopped. 

 

Oz is an extreme example of course but there are countries where two tone is compulsory so we are in a good place with having UKARA. for that sole reason we should be thankful for the scheme. I appreciate there are some  players who don't like the scheme as it stops them buying RIFS  but look at the potential alternatives of not having the scheme and what could happen. 

[jsmithski]

44 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

 

The United Kingdom Airsoft Retailers Association was formed in response to the 2006 Violent Crime Reduction bill to enable a safe method of selling Realistic Imitation Firearms (RiF's) to the UK Airsoft player market by confirming the eligibility of purchasers. > Will it keep the community safe? Not at all, but it is there to sell RIFS to legitimate players and therefore acts as a responsible instrument to show the authorities that there is self regulation within our sport.  I believe if there was no UKARA then we would either all be running around with two tones or worse still the whole hobby would be stopped. 

 

Oz is an extreme example of course but there are countries where two tone is compulsory so we are in a good place with having UKARA. for that sole reason we should be thankful for the scheme. I appreciate there are some  players who don't like the scheme as it stops them buying RIFS  but look at the potential alternatives of not having the scheme and what could happen. 

I hope we will never have to do the same here in PL but if for any reason it becomes a necessity it’s still not the end of the world.

[MiK]

So has anyone recently got a non UKARA membership like justco or sportsman and managed to buy any rif’s ?

my UKARA actually expired today and I was planning a getting a little something to cheer my lockdown blues a bit

[GenuineGerman]

I use my re-enactment membership and PLI to buy RIF's

[Jaylordofwaargh]

6 hours ago, MiK said:

So has anyone recently got a non UKARA membership like justco or sportsman and managed to buy any rif’s ?

my UKARA actually expired today and I was planning a getting a little something to cheer my lockdown blues a bit

Surely you are sat in an easy spot, can you not just get in contract with the site that signed you up to resubmit? Even if they charge to renew membership thats still cheaper than the others discussed here... 

 

I sit in that odd place of being an airsofter that for various reasons hasn't qualified for UKARA numbers. For the sake of hilarity consider the following

2019: 2 games - working lots but managed to get to the same site 

2020: two days before game day :LOCKDOWN: fine, move to summer CSW (rip) closes, rough for everyone. New site - sneak in a game in summer and October and boom lock down again. I'm looking into BAC but would need CS to verify.

 

Still, I have a decent fund for the next guns now...

[gunbod007]

So I just forked out an extra £50 for Sportsman's Association to use as Valid defence on my import from KYairsoft. Having ordered it I realised they offer 2 part shipping which would probably get through customs but anyway spoken to a firearms lawyer and he reckons this should be enough.

Really interesting point here is that UKARA is essentially preferred by retailers because it is pretty solid as defence and holds up in court. At the end of the day it is their responsibility to check.

But legally speaking you can buy or import a RIF without any of these previously discussed memberships. If you had an FAC for example you could say the RIF is for drills or target practice.

 

You just need a valid excuse essentially that if a reasonable person was to judge you they would say yeah he's not using this RIF for bad reasons. That valid excuse or defence has no exact legal licence or membership. UKARA has just become a very popular way for retailers to protect themselves but they can accept whatever defence they deem fit.

[Neptune]

1 hour ago, gunbod007 said:

If you had an FAC for example you could say the RIF is for drills or target practice.

 

You could say that, but it's not a defence under the law so would likely be rejected.

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

1 hour ago, gunbod007 said:

But legally speaking you can buy or import a RIF without any of these previously discussed memberships. If you had an FAC for example you could say the RIF is for drills or target practice.

 

Legally speaking, you can buy or import a RIF without any defense - it's up to the seller to decide on which defenses they'll accept as it's an offense to sell one. Customs can be tricky too always dicey going with someone outside of the norm. Importing through customs until, by memory 2014ish was chance if you even found someone who understood UKARA.

 

 

[ak2m4]

11 hours ago, DrAlexanderTobacco said:

Legally speaking, you can buy or import a RIF without any defense - it's up to the seller to decide on which defenses they'll accept as it's an offense to sell one. Customs can be tricky too always dicey going with someone outside of the norm. Importing through customs until, by memory 2014ish was chance if you even found someone who understood UKARA.

 

I ordered an AEG from HK only late last year with no defense marked on the box, arrived no problem - some slip through, some don't.  I've heard 1 in 10 are sent away to be checked.  I'm still skeptical regarding how customs access the UKARA system.  If you were one of the UK retailers who owned and operated that database would you allow UK customs to access it so potential customers can purchase outside the UK hmmmm. 

 

Going forward be nice to have a system where the sender could include a defense URL in the documentation or on the shipping label.  

[Tommikka]

On 05/02/2021 at 14:22, MiK said:

So has anyone recently got a non UKARA membership like justco or sportsman and managed to buy any rif’s ?

my UKARA actually expired today and I was planning a getting a little something to cheer my lockdown blues a bit

Normally threads on how to obtain RIFs without UKARA would cover the fact that VCRA doesn’t require UKARA but (for airsoft) a ‘defence’ that reflects the VCRAs skirmisher defence

Evasion wouldn’t be endorsed.

 

The current situation makes things difficult - we can’t play, some people

are strapped for cash and others have their disposable income piling up.

We want shiney things to keep us happy and we also want to support businesses so they still exist when this is all over

 

As your UKARA is only just expired, the first port of call would be to check in with the site you are a member of and see if they will extend 

 

On 05/02/2021 at 22:13, gunbod007 said:

So I just forked out an extra £50 for Sportsman's Association to use as Valid defence on my import from KYairsoft. Having ordered it I realised they offer 2 part shipping which would probably get through customs but anyway spoken to a firearms lawyer and he reckons this should be enough.

Really interesting point here is that UKARA is essentially preferred by retailers because it is pretty solid as defence and holds up in court. At the end of the day it is their responsibility to check.

But legally speaking you can buy or import a RIF without any of these previously discussed memberships. If you had an FAC for example you could say the RIF is for drills or target practice.

 

You just need a valid excuse essentially that if a reasonable person was to judge you they would say yeah he's not using this RIF for bad reasons. That valid excuse or defence has no exact legal licence or membership. UKARA has just become a very popular way for retailers to protect themselves but they can accept whatever defence they deem fit.

Split deliveries are a ‘possible’ workaround as they are different sets of ‘parts’.  But customs are aware of methods of smuggling

Breaking down a RIF into multiple packages is exactly that - smuggling.  This was offered by many Hong Kong retailers when the VCRA initially came into force 

Not ideal ‘advice’ from a lawyer

 

‘Valid excuse’ is not enough under the VCRA, you need one of the defences under the VCRA ad your ‘valid excuse’

 

For target practice you do not need a RIF. An IF will do just as well, and you aren’t restricted to basic blue BB guns, there is the two tone painting service

 

On a sale within the UK it is the sellers responsibility, on import it is the importers responsibility 

 

UKARA has popularity because it was introduced in negotiation with government and is the scheme that’s proposition enabled the skirmisher defence

 

 

On 05/02/2021 at 23:21, Neptune said:

 

You could say that, but it's not a defence under the law so would likely be rejected.

As on another thread a ‘shooter’ successfully managed to buy a RIF from a UK retailer for the purpose of practice for their FAC firearms.  They have the valid sportsman membership and insurance because that is their primary use.  On that thread we noted that the sale is not VCRA compliant on that basis, but as it’s a UK retailer to buyer sale then any fallout is the retailers problem

For gunbod it’s a different matter - they are the importer.  The different packages might get through, or they might get matched and challenged leaving gunbod with nothing or a box of RIF parts when one package gets through and the other gets stopped 

 

[gunbod007]

3 hours ago, Tommikka said:

Normally threads on how to obtain RIFs without UKARA would cover the fact that VCRA doesn’t require UKARA but (for airsoft) a ‘defence’ that reflects the VCRAs skirmisher defence

Evasion wouldn’t be endorsed.

 

The current situation makes things difficult - we can’t play, some people

are strapped for cash and others have their disposable income piling up.

We want shiney things to keep us happy and we also want to support businesses so they still exist when this is all over

 

As your UKARA is only just expired, the first port of call would be to check in with the site you are a member of and see if they will extend 

 

Split deliveries are a ‘possible’ workaround as they are different sets of ‘parts’.  But customs are aware of methods of smuggling

Breaking down a RIF into multiple packages is exactly that - smuggling.  This was offered by many Hong Kong retailers when the VCRA initially came into force 

Not ideal ‘advice’ from a lawyer

 

‘Valid excuse’ is not enough under the VCRA, you need one of the defences under the VCRA ad your ‘valid excuse’

 

For target practice you do not need a RIF. An IF will do just as well, and you aren’t restricted to basic blue BB guns, there is the two tone painting service

 

On a sale within the UK it is the sellers responsibility, on import it is the importers responsibility 

 

UKARA has popularity because it was introduced in negotiation with government and is the scheme that’s proposition enabled the skirmisher defence

 

 

As on another thread a ‘shooter’ successfully managed to buy a RIF from a UK retailer for the purpose of practice for their FAC firearms.  They have the valid sportsman membership and insurance because that is their primary use.  On that thread we noted that the sale is not VCRA compliant on that basis, but as it’s a UK retailer to buyer sale then any fallout is the retailers problem

For gunbod it’s a different matter - they are the importer.  The different packages might get through, or they might get matched and challenged leaving gunbod with nothing or a box of RIF parts when one package gets through and the other gets stopped 

 

Sorry to clarify.

The lawyer said that Sportsman's association should be good enough as it is used as a defence for skimming per the law. 

The retailer is insisting on splitting the shipment and I have asked them not to because to me it just looks like smuggling.

 

I think if I split the packages it makes it look like I even I don't believe in the defence whereas if it ships in one I think it proves I am genuine and want to airsoft. At the end of the day I think I just need to convince them I am an airsofter and intend on using it for skirmishing. Which is all true.

[L3wisD]

Umm guys... I think we've gotten their attention 😬

 

 

[Tommikka]

18 hours ago, gunbod007 said:

Sorry to clarify.

The lawyer said that Sportsman's association should be good enough as it is used as a defence for skimming per the law. 

The retailer is insisting on splitting the shipment and I have asked them not to because to me it just looks like smuggling.

 

I think if I split the packages it makes it look like I even I don't believe in the defence whereas if it ships in one I think it proves I am genuine and want to airsoft. At the end of the day I think I just need to convince them I am an airsofter and intend on using it for skirmishing. Which is all true.

Got you, thanks

 

I wouldn’t say that Sportsman’s membership on its own is enough, but it’s another layer - you would therefore be not just a skirmisher playing on insured sites but having the added degree of your own insurance.

 

If customs flag up the multiple packages then you are then in the position of justifying your defence, which is the same position as a single package but just with a potentially stroppy border official - who is used to dodgy Asian sellers

 

Its going to be suck it and see as to whether it just passes, they accept sportsman membership on the face of it, sportsman plus questions to back it up - or none of the above 

The final point is key - just convincing customs that your a valid airsofter 

[MiK]

Also split packages might not get seen by the same custom official so one might go through clean but the other half might get held up for weeks or bounce about the place 

[gunbod007]

1 hour ago, Tommikka said:

Got you, thanks

 

I wouldn’t say that Sportsman’s membership on its own is enough, but it’s another layer - you would therefore be not just a skirmisher playing on insured sites but having the added degree of your own insurance.

 

If customs flag up the multiple packages then you are then in the position of justifying your defence, which is the same position as a single package but just with a potentially stroppy border official - who is used to dodgy Asian sellers

 

Its going to be suck it and see as to whether it just passes, they accept sportsman membership on the face of it, sportsman plus questions to back it up - or none of the above 

The final point is key - just convincing customs that your a valid airsofter 

Yeah I opted against the split packages. Just seemed dodgy to me.

 

But I am a genuine Airsofter with proof of pat links to sites, sportsman’s, contact with new sites, existing RIFS

invoices on multiple Airsoft related products. 
anyway I will update when/if it all arrives 

[Sean]

Hi guys,

 

the site where I used to play near me has been closed down and I want to get back into airport when we’re allowed out.

 

I sold my old gun.

 

how can I get a new one as I wouldn’t qualify for a ukara licence as mine expired some time ago. I’m happy to pay for any licence or membership.

 

thanks 

[Oneshotscott]

Sean, 

 

 You my friend are in the same boat as me minus the bit about selling old guns.

 

3 games in no less than 3 months (after covid) and then you and I can go put to buy a nice toy gun but until then its either buy a two-tone or rental.   

 

Keep it legal 🦸‍♂️

 

 

[Hells Airsoft]

UKFOB doesn’t require UKARA for you to purchase guns as the law states you must be a skirmisher which the site does ask you, select that option and then your good to go.

[Adolf Hamster]

Not sure i'd trust somewhere where "yeah mate i'm an airsofter honest guvnor" is all thats needed.

 

Very sketchy.

[ak2m4]

 

31 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

Not sure i'd trust somewhere where "yeah mate i'm an airsofter honest guvnor" is all thats needed.

 

Very sketchy.

 

It does ask you to enter additional info / UKARA number, whether or not they check is another story

[Hells Airsoft]

54 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

Not sure i'd trust somewhere where "yeah mate i'm an airsofter honest guvnor" is all thats needed.

 

Very sketchy.

I know what your saying, but it does bipass the whole UKARA situation for now. As long as you know your not gonna be an idiot with the guns after purchase, then I can’t see the problem.

[38super]

I found a couple of retailers willing to accept Sportsman's Association membership for the insurance cover but they did ask me to provide photo/video evidence of relevant activity before they agreed.

[Lozart]

27 minutes ago, Hells Airsoft said:

I know what your saying, but it does bipass the whole UKARA situation for now. As long as you know your not gonna be an idiot with the guns after purchase, then I can’t see the problem.

 

UKARA is only there to protect the retailer. I think they'd be on a pretty sticky wicket if they ever got prosecuted for supplying illegally if their only defence was "but they said they were an airsofter". Still, that's their problem.

[Adolf Hamster]

1 hour ago, Lozart said:

Still, that's their problem.

 

hopefully, if it's a small enough issue that nobody notices it.

 

alternately it could get noticed and motivate more stringent procedures.

[Tommikka]

2 hours ago, 38super said:

I found a couple of retailers willing to accept Sportsman's Association membership for the insurance cover but they did ask me to provide photo/video evidence of relevant activity before they agreed.

Nice to read that