Walts

[Paladin]

OK, so I'm sure this is going to prove to be a controversial topic ...

 

So there is a line between 'imitation being the highest form of flattery' and misleading persons unknown into believing that you are or represent something what 'you' are not

 

But where is the line? 

 

I am looking at 2 loadouts, one I am currently using based on British Army 16 Air Assault Brigade Pathfinders Group (for woodland sites), and a 2nd I am starting to work on based on Irish Defence Forces Army Ranger Wing Counter Terrorist Unit (for CQB sites)

 

The IDF BDU I've found have the IDF/Irish flag logos pre-embroidered (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IDF-Irish-DPM-Combat-Shirt-Large-Ref-5/353275988284?hash=item5240e3c93c:g:75wAAOSwz6ZfgxAL) but not the ARW logo (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Irish-Army-Ranger-Wing-Patch-w-Tab-Fianoglach-100-Embroidery/254482563003?hash=item3b4057bfbb:g:cOEAAOSw8vtfSvSS)

 

My Pathfinder loadout, I have British Army surplus Blanking patches on my UBASC, but no other insignia or rank markings, I would however consider some additions for example the drop zone flash (https://www.army-surplus.co.uk/dz-flash-16-aa-pf-pln), without any other insignia or marks.

 

However, I recognise that I am not now, nor have ever been in the Army, let alone in an elite regiment, and wouldn't want to cross a line ...

 

Brutally honest opinions always welcome 😅

 

 

[BigStew]

as long as you don't add on anything you didn't earn your generally fine. the issue is claiming or acting like you are ex military.  There was a former player who was a complete Walt he claimed  to be ex foreign Legion but couldn't speak a word of French. Everyone though he was a twat and he was eventually banned for poor sportsmanship after several warnings. 

 

So basically don't be a dick and you'll be fine.

[Cr0-Magnon]

I can see why someone who has been in those units would have a stronger opinion and quite honestly I don't really get the point of having all the correct gear as I think it crosses over in to full LARP'ing territory. However as above, if you don't in any other way make out like it's genuine, then I can't see the majority taking offence.

[Tackle]

Precise kit loadouts are fine, but regiment insignia/berets will always upset someone, & invariably Walt's behave like dicks, & that upsets everyone lol.

The general consensus that many agree with is that if you haven't got the "right" to wear it, DON'T.

Plus in real world combat situations insignia is close to non existent other than brigade flashes ?, Airsoft is most definitely "combat" based so surely the same applies ?.

[SgtTalbert]

Ive never served (outside of Air Cadet Special Forces) but to me, wearing unit patches is fine, non serving people do it for re-enactment so why is airsoft any different. For airsoft, wearing rank is odd to me as its got nothing to do with the loadout whereas correct gear and unit patches do. However, I will say, I dont get how people can Walt in airsoft as I'd say only 5% of airsofters even have the physique that could at a glance pass off as anything remotely in shape. Most are either overweight or a 12yr old bean pole. 

[MagpieTactical]

As ex forces, i coukdnt care less if you want to dress up and use insignia to play with toy guns in the woods. 

I may ask you to rescue some hostages or something if you have SAS badges etc, but it will be piss taking. 

 

If you dress up and use insignia, and claim to have served in that regiment etc, even though you didnt, then that offends me. 

 

My site, and i suspect most has ex and serving members who play airsoft.  At my site the attitude would be same as mine. Dont be a walt and claim to be anything you arent, and its fine by me

[lukeB]

Safezone gossip quickly identifies the walts, regardless of what they wear.

[Adolf Hamster]

i'm with tackle on this, recreation loadouts and kit are just fine as long as it's sticking to just the equipment. once you start adding specific patches it becomes an issue.

 

the exception is historical instances where it's patently obvious you're not pretending to have actually served in a given unit, for example ww2 re-enactment. although again my preference would be to forgo the insignia in deference to the people who actually put their lives on the line.

[Tackle]

Exsqueeze me ?, How is being under or overweight an indicator of someone's service in the military, when I served I was fitter than a butchers dog, but between injuries & the passage of time means I've put on some timber, for some it's almost inevitable.

[Tommikka]

Airsoft includes dressing up, as long as you are not making false claims then nobody really cares.  (Many ex soldiers are of the opposite opinion - airsofters are a good source of eBay income)

 

You are not a Walt unless you are impersonating and making false claims:

https://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Walter_Mitty

 

However, there are self appointed Walt hunters who pursue those that they consider to be walts and regularly go after the wrong people because the Walt hunters only have their beliefs:

 https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/whoops.214715/
 

A genuine WW2 Belgian SAS veteran pursed by Walt hunters because they didn’t like his medal arrangement or the mix  of beret colour and badge

[Steveocee]

1 hour ago, Paladin said:

The IDF BDU I've found have the IDF/Irish flag logos pre-embroidered (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IDF-Irish-DPM-Combat-Shirt-Large-Ref-5/353275988284?hash=item5240e3c93c:g:75wAAOSwz6ZfgxAL) but not the ARW logo (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Irish-Army-Ranger-Wing-Patch-w-Tab-Fianoglach-100-Embroidery/254482563003?hash=item3b4057bfbb:g:cOEAAOSw8vtfSvSS)

 

Why not just sew your own patch over the ones it has? BDU you want with your stamp on it and won't insult anyone.

[Cannonfodder]

I've never served, but from talking to players who have the impression I got was that most don't really care unless you're making false claims about having served. It tends to be the septics who tend to get their knickers in a twist over this sort of thing 

[MagpieTactical]

31 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

I've never served, but from talking to players who have the impression I got was that most don't really care unless you're making false claims about having served. It tends to be the septics who tend to get their knickers in a twist over this sort of thing 

This,the whole Stolen Valour thing.  Its not actually a crime in the UK to claim to have served, unless doing so benefits you in some way eg financially. 

 

[Tackle]

I never gave insignia etc in Airsoft a second thought, just one more bit of unnecessary kit to slow you down lol, then a team turned up at my then local, all wearing my regiment beret/cap badge, & they were the scruffiest bunch of twats I'd ever seen, & behave like total knobs.

I'm not a snowflake but you couldn't not be offended 🤬

[Paladin]

59 minutes ago, Steveocee said:

 

Why not just sew your own patch over the ones it has? BDU you want with your stamp on it and won't insult anyone.

 

Since I'm looking at replicating a IDF ARW load-out, the flag insignia would be part of that, same as anyone who wears a Union Flag on a British inspired kit or Stars & Stripes on a US inspired kit, it's the extra details, like the dropzone flash, or AWG Regimental insignia that I feel pushes the kit to a borderline Walt situation that I'm interested in discussing

 

Saying that, the closest I can get to being Irish is marrying my half Irish partner (hold the date: 7th April 2021) and applying for dual citizenship ... Which oddly enough is an entirely separate non-airsoft related plan that I have 😉

[TheFull9]

There's flag patches and flag patches, which are very different to unit/service patches, but there's an awful lot of grey with room for personal interpretations.  I do think there is a small difference between the little union jacks sewn on to issued kit vs a £3.50 black velcro version you slap on airsoft kit, but certainly nobody cares about all the players running around in surplus PCS shirts and rightly so.  I think it might be slightly more likely to appear you're portraying yourself to have served in a foreign military unit if you wear their issued flag on their issue uniform, mounted in the location mandated by their regulations and the rest of the gear is all pretty accurate; whereas cutting about in an issue MTP UBACS with a condor belt rig etc etc ('tyical' player) is a different look overall. Not telling anyone they shouldn't, just some thoughts.

 

Either way it needs to stop before any unit patches as far as skirmishes go.  They make zero functional difference and adding 1% more immurshun to your weekend bb wars in no way takes precedence over the experience of guys who may well have been through some real shit while wearing that stuff.

[Paladin]

2 minutes ago, TheFull9 said:

Either way it needs to stop before any unit patches as far as skirmishes go.  They make zero functional difference and adding 1% more immurshun to your weekend bb wars in no way takes precedence over the experience of guys who may well have been through some real shit while wearing that stuff.

 

Fair point fella, appreciate the feedback

[Adolf Hamster]

2 hours ago, Tommikka said:

A genuine WW2 Belgian SAS veteran pursed by Walt hunters because they didn’t like his medal arrangement or the mix  of beret colour and badge

 

considering he's still able to make a baguette look like an offensive weapon i think he can wear his medals however the hell he likes.

 

53 minutes ago, Paladin said:

Since I'm looking at replicating a IDF ARW load-out, the flag insignia would be part of that

 

i'm assuming the insignia only narrows things down to idf, which is presumably what the camo pattern will be doing anyway.

 

i've run with country flags on kit that i bought surplus and happened to still have them on (union flag on dpm and german flag on flecktarn)

 

it's when it gets down to specific units that i'd start to consider it an issue.

[CrackCommandoUnit1972]

Ironically, SF dudes don't tend to wear anything that would identify them in case they get captured.

[GenuineGerman]

As long as you don't tell everyone you was in Red Sabre Squadron and personally shot Osama who care what you wear. Its your load out, however i wouldn't wear specific unit patches or awards. Generic is probably the way forward. And most ex soldiers can tell the difference between a walt and someone just wearing military kit quite quickly. 

[SgtTalbert]

4 hours ago, Tackle said:

Exsqueeze me ?, How is being under or overweight an indicator of someone's service in the military, when I served I was fitter than a butchers dog, but between injuries & the passage of time means I've put on some timber, for some it's almost inevitable.

 

Thats exactly my point. you're now not serving and can be however big or small you like. My other point is 90% of airsofters tend to kit themselves up as special forces or at least some tier above standard military + normally they arent UK units, at least based on the MILSIMS or sites ive been to so even if someone was dressed to the nines as Seal team 6, the fact they are about 14 or 34 but with a massive beer gut hanging over their shooters belt, proves they couldnt walt even if they wanted to

Just now, SgtTalbert said:

 

Thats exactly my point. you're now not serving and can be however big or small you like. My other point is 90% of airsofters tend to kit themselves up as special forces or at least some tier above standard military + normally they arent UK units, at least based on the MILSIMS or sites ive been to so even if someone was dressed to the nines as Seal team 6, the fact they are about 14 or 34 but with a massive beer gut hanging over their shooters belt, proves they couldnt walt even if they wanted to

 

Having said all that, I've never worn unit patches or rank that are 'real'. I once got called out on Reddit for being being a walt because I had a glock photo with the SEAL Team TV show patch next to it....which blew my mind

[Shamal]

5 hours ago, Tackle said:

Exsqueeze me ?, How is being under or overweight an indicator of someone's service in the military, when I served I was fitter than a butchers dog, but between injuries & the passage of time means I've put on some timber, for some it's almost inevitable.

Amen to that.

Ain't that the truth!

 

[Dogsbody100]

Never before in the field of human conversation has one subject been talked about so much by so many! 
 

And rightly so.
 

I might be a little blinkered in my view on the whole thing but with airsoft it’s somewhat more simple owing to the fact that we don’t conduct our sport in public and usually well away from any spectators.

 

Walking about in public dressed in full ‘Iranian embassy black’ is where a lot of these videos on YouTube of walts being busted occur, so by skirmishing on private sites there is usually no issue.

 

You can wear what you like as long as you don’t claim for things that aren’t yours - simples.

 

I was in the army but held no rank above private and was awarded no medals or any citations, therefore my airsoft load out is (although accurate as it would have been when I served) without rank or badges. I could (even though I wouldn’t want to) wear more but would make it perfectly clear to all that I was a mere private. 

[Nick G]

Interesting topic, and i think we all agree just dont pretend be what you are not is the way to go. For my part I only wear British kit. Usually DPM and yes it has the British flag on it of, which I am fiercly proud. Insignia wise though it's just the team patch and UNIT badges for a bit of DR Who fun ! I do wear a set of wings on my sleve from time to time , but I got my licence years ago with the cadetts so I've earned those.  I've got mates who have served, some who are serving and some who served and never came back, and would feel that I was disrespecting them if I wore any 'real' unit insignia , not to mention doing an accurate loadout involves running around in way more kit than I've got any intention of lugging about !

[Paladin]

14 hours ago, Nick G said:

I've got mates who have served, some who are serving and some who served and never came back, and would feel that I was disrespecting them if I wore any 'real' unit insignia

 

I've lost a couple of close mates who served, more to PTSD than combat, and I absolutely respect the commitment, service, and sacrifice