What makes Airsoft a joke

[Seth_Erebor]

Short Version - The lack of significant recoil and sound when compared to real firearms (even a .22) removes a large portion of the "gun" skill barrier.

 

Long Version - Imagine for a moment that call of duty or battlefield removed recoil from their games, how would that play out? People running around dumping laser beams with only gravity holding back their digital streams of death. Doesn't sound great, does it?

 

Turning our attention to Airsoft, we are currently in a situation where players can walk their BBs onto a target with a long full-auto burst like some sort of ghostbuster. Not only does this feel like overkill but quite simplistic in nature. Assuming we were in a world of 100% hit takers (don't get side tracked) placing a few well aimed shots would be far more satisfying.

 

Sound, same again, imagine if your favourite video game or movie replaced the gunfire sounds with the wet fart phhhht of an AEG gearbox.

I am of the opinion, and remember how much I hate snipers, that all RIFs should be loud enough to locate the origin of the shot. I can not stand snipers who sit in a bush silently spitting out .4g BBs.

 

If everyone knows where a shot came from it forces another layer of skill, timing, ambushes, etc.

 

*drops mouse and deletes account*

[Rogerborg]

Real(ish) caps and amplifiers, yo.

[Immortal]

19 minutes ago, Seth_K said:

I can not stand snipers who sit in a bush silently spitting out .4g BBs.

 

You'll not like me then... (And I spit 0.5g BBs)

 

My challenge coin:

 

[L3wisD]

@Seth_K - I'll be advertising my Kytech CSD beta unit for sale later. It's right up your Street.

 

You add custom sounds to a micro SD card then it activates the sound to play out of the peq box as the BB breaks the sensor.

 

They're going to be all the rage once they iron out a few problems.

[EvilMonkee]

Crap posts from Seth K?

[AK47frizzle]

Well, if you treat airsoft like a real life war simulator, that's where you're gonna have problems.

 

I don't play airsoft to be a pretend soldier; I play airsoft for the competitive strategy, mechanics, and functions of the gun itself, detaching myself from the history and "authenticity" of such things. Much like computer games that I compete in as an esports player, the detachment from real death opens up many opportunities for strategies to be created, as well as greatly improving your human abilities like reaction time, hand eye coordination, and congnitive abilities. I play airsoft like a computer game: it has it's own set of rules, and your task is to work around them.

 

That's why I only pick guns that have an optimized function in my arsenal (example: I don't have 2 guns that do the same thing). Though, I do occassionally like the novelty (I need to stop buying green gas pistols ffs).

 

You should be amazed that a small, spherical pellet can be lauched that far without killing someone.

[Tackle]

24 minutes ago, L3wisD said:

@Seth_K - I'll be advertising my Kytech CSD beta unit for sale later. It's right up your Street.

 

You add custom sounds to a micro SD card then it activates the sound to play out of the peq box as the BB breaks the sensor.

 

They're going to be all the rage once they iron out a few problems.

gotta get me one of those, only use single shot so think I'll have Homer shouting "DOH" every time I pull the trigger.

Awesome😁

 

p.s. Airsofts not a joke, at its fundamental basic level its awesome, not all new tech actually improves the gameplay, sometimes its best to employ the K.I.S.S. approach..

[Druid799]

News flash THATS WHAT SNIPERS DO ! The unexpected hit is the whole point ? 

Have to say mate most of the time your post are amusing, sometimes even make you think “never thought of it that way!”

But this time you’ve excelled your self in the realms of Bullshitery ! 

Really mate ? 

[E21A]

54 minutes ago, Seth_K said:

Short Version - The lack of significant recoil and sound when compared to real firearms (even a .22) removes a large portion of the "gun" skill barrier.

Lack of recoil is more than made up for by the inaccuracy of airsoft guns. Lack of recoil is a good thing in my opinion. Sound is somewhat solved by amplifiers.  

54 minutes ago, Seth_K said:

 

Long Version - Imagine for a moment that call of duty or battlefield removed recoil from their games, how would that play out? People running around dumping laser beams with only gravity holding back their digital streams of death. Doesn't sound great, does it?

 

Sooo, laser tag then? Ok, maybe not as big as airsoft/paintball but has a fairly big following in the US I believe? 

 

54 minutes ago, Seth_K said:

 

Turning our attention to Airsoft, we are currently in a situation where players can walk their BBs onto a target with a long full-auto burst like some sort of ghostbuster. Not only does this feel like overkill but quite simplistic in nature. Assuming we were in a world of 100% hit takers (don't get side tracked) placing a few well aimed shots would be far more satisfying.

 

Which you can easily do if you have a fairly well set up gun. 

54 minutes ago, Seth_K said:

 

Sound, same again, imagine if your favourite video game or movie replaced the gunfire sounds with the wet fart phhhht of an AEG gearbox.

 

Already mentioned amplifiers. There nowhere near real firearms but then airsoft is nowhere near real war. 

 

 

54 minutes ago, Seth_K said:

I am of the opinion, and remember how much I hate snipers, that all RIFs should be loud enough to locate the origin of the shot. I can not stand snipers who sit in a bush silently spitting out .4g BBs.

 

Never heard of real steel guns using silencers then?? Snipers are in the real world are generally far enough away or supported enough also. 

 

54 minutes ago, Seth_K said:

 

If everyone knows where a shot came from it forces another layer of skill, timing, ambushes, etc.

 

*drops mouse and deletes account*

 

Advantage of BBs moving slow enough to see them, unlike bullets. 

[Tackle]

6 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

News flash THATS WHAT SNIPERS DO ! The unexpected hit is the whole point ? 

Have to say mate most of the time your post are amusing, sometimes even make you think “never thought of it that way!”

But this time you’ve excelled your self in the realms of Bullshitery ! 

Really mate ? 

I think someone needs to buy @Seth_K a copy of this.....

 

[Musica]

28 minutes ago, AK47frizzle said:

I don't play airsoft to be a pretend soldier;

This is the fundamental problem I think OP has. It's not RP it's its own thing. Similarities of course but play airsoft to play airsoft  and don't get mad at people for doing things you don't like. I got killed by a speedsofter last game he 1 tapped me right in the forehead then proceeded to 1 tap another guy right in the head. The other guy complains how he hates speed softers but the guy did nothing wrong so whats there to hate other than being out skilled. 

 

It's similar how in video games meta strategy appear and people don't like it because it's not "realistic" well yea it's also a video game for fun.

 

 

[Seth_Erebor]

3 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

News flash THATS WHAT SNIPERS DO ! The unexpected hit is the whole point ? 

Have to say mate most of the time your post are amusing, sometimes even make you think “never thought of it that way!”

But this time you’ve excelled your self in the realms of Bullshitery ! 

Really mate ? 

4 minutes ago, Tackle said:

I think someone needs to buy @Seth_K a copy of this.....

 

 

Should be arriving today 6-10pm. Thanks

[EDcase]

I agree in principle with a lot of the points.

 

But...

 

Practically speaking:

- Recoil is very hard (and expensive) to implement.  Hopefully better systems will come along to remedy that but its unlikely to get to real world levels.

 

- Sound would be nice to have but that would kill off many airsoft sites from noise complaints so we can fit mock suppressors to match the sound level...

 

- I've said before that I think weapons should have matching fps to the real world versions but that'll never happen when its so easy to turn most weapons into BB hoses. 

[Seth_Erebor]

2 minutes ago, EDcase said:

I agree in principle with a lot of the points.

 

I do wish there was more realistic recoil, sound, rates of fire.

 

But...

 

Practically speaking:

- Recoil is very hard (and expensive) to implement.  Hopefully better systems will come along to remedy that but its unlikely to get to real world levels.

 

- Sound would be nice to have but that would kill off many airsoft sites from noise complaints so we can fit mock suppressors to match the sound level...

 

- I've said before that I think weapons should have matching fps to the real world versions but that'll never happen when its so easy to turn most weapons into BB hoses. 

 

You've said it a lot better than I have haha! 

 

6 minutes ago, Musica said:

This is the fundamental problem I think OP has. It's not RP it's its own thing. Similarities of course but play airsoft to play airsoft  and don't get mad at people for doing things you don't like. I got killed by a speedsofter last game he 1 tapped me right in the forehead then proceeded to 1 tap another guy right in the head. The other guy complains how he hates speed softers but the guy did nothing wrong so whats there to hate other than being out skilled. 

 

It's similar how in video games meta strategy appear and people don't like it because it's not "realistic" well yea it's also a video game for fun.

 

 

 

True, the realism factor is nice and apart from that I wonder how it would change the feel of the game. Better or worse?

 

19 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

News flash THATS WHAT SNIPERS DO ! The unexpected hit is the whole point ? 

Have to say mate most of the time your post are amusing, sometimes even make you think “never thought of it that way!”

But this time you’ve excelled your self in the realms of Bullshitery ! 

Really mate ? 

 

The first few shots, sure, it will cause confusion. I agree with you on that.

I am talking about airsoft in general, sound is very important for the senses, etc

 

It's more about balancing the advantage of range and accuracy, as it's airsoft I might be giving snipers more ability than they actually have. 

[EDcase]

Imagine if everyone had suppressors in real warfare.  Then it would be like airsoft...

What annoys me about snipers is that often they don't feel hits due to the qhille suits. (or they just feel invisible so ignore hits)

 

I'd love to try the military marker training...

https://simunition.com/en/products/fx_marking_cartridges

But that'll never happen because they use real firearms

[Seth_Erebor]

20 minutes ago, E21A said:

Lack of recoil is more than made up for by the inaccuracy of airsoft guns. Lack of recoil is a good thing in my opinion. Sound is somewhat solved by amplifiers.  

 

Sooo, laser tag then? Ok, maybe not as big as airsoft/paintball but has a fairly big following in the US I believe? 

 

 

Which you can easily do if you have a fairly well set up gun. 

 

Already mentioned amplifiers. There nowhere near real firearms but then airsoft is nowhere near real war. 

 

 

 

Never heard of real steel guns using silencers then?? Snipers are in the real world are generally far enough away or supported enough also. 

 

 

Advantage of BBs moving slow enough to see them, unlike bullets. 

 

Recoil - I can see the trade off there, except when combined with a high rate of fire and a large mag.

Don't quite get the laser tag reference though, do you mean that's what I'm describing?

 

Even suppressors made a sound, moving away from snipers, sound is just important for gameplay.

 

BBs are slow, true, but still.

[ImTriggerHappy]

Recoil on airsoft guns is frankly pointless. Let's be honest here most guns are lucky to shoot 40mtrs on good day. You are firing extremely light projectiles where the slightest thing fucks them up so recoil is actually your worst enemy. The reason TM recoils still manage to keep accuracy is because the recoil is pathetically weak and delayed.

 

Sound again why would you? Even in the woods in real world terms it is cqb so being as stealthy as possible is a benefit. 

 

Ask any soldier if they had a choice between the loudy bouncy gun they have or pointable silent weapon what they would want.

 

And sorry to keep beating the same drum it is not pretend soldiers as you can't recreate war it is just FUCKING HIDE AND SEEK.

[EvilMonkee]

The problem I have with the OP is that everything he posts appears to have the agenda behind it of being related to his own special little super secret squirrel project that he won't reveal any details of to anyone yet he still wants our opinion on.

[E21A]

 

11 minutes ago, Seth_K said:

Don't quite get the laser tag reference though, do you mean that's what I'm describing?

 

Yes, that’s exactly what you’re describing 

 

11 minutes ago, Seth_K said:

 

Even suppressors made a sound, moving away from snipers, sound is just important for gameplay.

 

Not really

 

11 minutes ago, Seth_K said:

 

BBs are slow, true, but still.

 

Still what? You can see where shots are coming from so don’t need to hear them. You can even dodge them if you’re quick enough! 

[clumpyedge]

I was going to write a fairly pleasant and thought out reply to this but in all honesty I really cant be fucked.

[Tackle]

as for "realistic" recoil, realistic to who ?, those of us that have shot real steel will know what the various levels of recoil are according to the weapon, most 5.56 weapons have a pissy weak recoil, hell I've fired pistols with more kick, but your never gonna simulate the recoil of a man-sized round, think 7.62 in an SLR, .308 in am M14, & what you gonna do with someone who's using smle no.4 (.303) , employ someone to follow them round & hit em in the shoulder with a large mallet every time the pull the trigger 😉.

I've resisted buying recoils for the same reason I've kept away from gbbr's, not realistic or relable enough without a LOT of tinkering, unless of course your day job rifle is an l85a1 😜

[Seth_Erebor]

17 minutes ago, EDcase said:

Imagine if everyone had suppressors in real warfare.  Then it would be like airsoft...

What annoys me about snipers is that often they don't feel hits due to the qhille suits. (or they just feel invisible so ignore hits)

 

I'd love to try the military marker training...

https://simunition.com/en/products/fx_marking_cartridges

But that'll never happen because they use real firearms

 

Aren't the USMC doing that? Maybe it was just an idea they were floating.

To do with hearing damage or something.

 

And they hurt! But yes, that system is pretty cool.

 

8 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

Recoil on airsoft guns is frankly pointless. Let's be honest here most guns are lucky to shoot 40mtrs on good day. You are firing extreme light projectiles where the slightest thing fucks them up so recoil is actually your worst enemy. The reason TM recoils still manage to keep accuracy is because the recoil is pathetically weak and delayed.

 

Sound again why would you? Even in the woods in real world terms it is cqb so being as stealthy as possible is a benefit. 

 

Ask any soldier if they had a choice between the loudy bouncy gun they have or pointable silent weapon what they would want.

 

And sorry to keep beating the same drum it is not pretend soldiers as you can't recreate war it is just FUCKING HIDE AND SEEK.

 

Even if we keep things as they are, no BB hoses please.

 

6 minutes ago, EvilMonkee said:

The problem I have with the OP is that everything he posts appears to have the agenda behind it of being related to his own special little super secret squirrel project that he won't reveal any details of to anyone yet he still wants our opinion on.

 

I fancied a winge tbh lol. 

No much to say about the squirrel project, work is ongoing naturally, it's a terrible thing to say but if I'd know how much of my life it would take up I might have reconsidered it.

Anyway, there is more info to dig up on it, but without even a stake in the ground, what's the point of saying anything.

1 minute ago, Tackle said:

as for "realistic" recoil, realistic to who ?, those of us that have shot real steel will know what the various levels of recoil are according to the weapon, most 5.56 weapons have a pissy weak recoil, hell I've fired pistols with more kick, but your never gonna simulate the recoil of a man-sized round, think 7.62 in an SLR, .308 in am M14, & what you gonna do with someone who's using smle no.4 (.303) , employ someone to follow them round & hit em in the shoulder with a large mallet every time the pull the trigger 😉.

I've resisted buying recoils for the same reason I've kept away from gbbr's, not realistic or relable enough without a LOT of tinkering, unless of course your day job rifle is an l85a1 😜

 

Just enough to stop it being a BB hose, so in practice full auto should really kick the muzzle up.

 

2 minutes ago, clumpyedge said:

I was going to write a fairly pleasant and thought out reply to this but in all honest I really cant be fucked.

 

I've been reading a lot of your posts on the "How many chances?" thread, so please add your thoughts to the discussion. 

[Resistor170]

I think you should go to a shooting club. It would take away your need for recoil and loud bangs in airsoft

[Rogerborg]

There is a market for catering to pretend soldiers, as well as hide and seekists.

 

The question being implicitly asked in this thread is whether it's a big enough market to justify a site buying a load of GBBRs with sound hogs / electro-shouty units to equip every C-clamping operator on the field.

 

I'd suspect not, unless there were taxpayer money being spaffed on it.  But there's only one way to find out.

[Seth_Erebor]

1 minute ago, Rogerborg said:

There is a market for catering to pretend soldiers, as well as hide and seekists.

 

The question being implicitly asked in this thread is whether it's a big enough market to justify a site buying a load of GBBRs with sound hogs / electro-shouty units to equip every C-clamping operator on the field.

 

I'd suspect not, unless there were taxpayer money being spaffed on it.  But there's only one way to find out.

 

Insightful as always Rogerborg, although I was just having a moan that is truly the question.

The cost or return is secondary, is the experience good or not, that what I want to know now. 

 

Having used a gbbr vector, I can say a number of those together would be amazing.