SSPKali
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Posts posted by SSPKali
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10 hours ago, MiniLuxy said:
And I have a question to G&P Nozzle Valve ( 4.0 ) users. What fps/joules you have on max settings? At least I think is max settings... A screw should be all inside the nozzle right? Because I have only ~310fps/1,24J on 0,28g it's just a little above 350fps(0,2g) using Nuprol 2.0 green gas. I was hoping that at least ~450fps/1,8J(0,2g) would be drawn 😕. Maybe I messed up sth during re-assembling?
You are running the Dynamic Precision valve stopper not the one G&P supply with the 4.0 valve - this might be causing the issue?
Moving the stop point forward or back a fraction of a mm can have a BIG influence on the FPS.
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43 minutes ago, Wild Weasel said:
Been using r a tech npas, standard setup with geoff's 0.32g bb's.
Cheers
Standard set up was giving me 268fps on 0.30g with ASG gas (green gas) at 14degC
Sanding the prongs down on the G&P stopper gave a better range of FPS, stock it was a bit low. High is now 295fps so will be good for cold days. Middle is now 265fps in current weather so ok for now (12-18degC)
There are people who have had good results from making the TM valve into an NPAS by drilling a 2.5mm hole then threading in a hot 3mm grub screw into it.
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28 minutes ago, Wild Weasel said:
Right folks I've had it with npas. What's the best option for sub 350fps on a standard setup using propane?
What weight BBs are you using? What length barrel? The stock set up and 250mm barrel will be fine on 0.20 to 0.25g...any heavier and Joule creep is a pain.
What NPAS have you been using?
The G&P valve stop (https://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/gp-marui-mws-gbb-adjustable-piston-valve) is good for having a low / med / high setting and no chance of adjusting its self. Search back a few pages and I posted some test data on it
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Small purchase but a great mod / upgrade if you frequent dark CQB sites.
2mm x 6mm green Tritium vial from https://www.iceatope.co.uk/ that cost about £8 posted and a drop of super glue onto the front sight of my Cyma CM041 MP-5.
Green is the brightest so probably the one to go for, it won't do anything in daylight like a fibre optic one would but then you can see where the BBs are going!
I added one to my shotty a few years ago and really helped getting faster shots on target in dark rooms / sites. That front sight wasn't protected like the MP-5 so it did get smashed at CHD when it was kicking about the FOB for a weekend.
- PopRocket123 and TheFull9
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3 hours ago, AlphaBear said:
Stand them up vertically and see if the new DP nozzle protrudes a tad more. To me it seems the head of the nozzle seems a tad longer than the Marui one. But it may well be the way the pic is taken.I would but they are all assembled as I have been testing them! One day when I am bored I will
EDIT I have measured the very old and worn TM one and the "old" but less used DP one - the DP is 0.41mm longer over all. New pic is the TM (left) and Old DP (right) side by side.
It seems that the lightweight bolt has worse issues with low fps randomness. I think that certain combinations of bolt and nozzle mean the the BB can be seated too deep in the bucking meaning less fps and hop. New TM bucking with 4 clicks on the adjuster...may need one or two more but I only have a 10m range!
DP nozzle with DP valve and G&P stop (low) in a DP lightweight bolt is giving 260fps (0.30g, ASG gas, 14degC)
Same set up with G&P stop in the mid position = 315fps.
No weird drops in power, all nice and consistent
TM bolt with AG Mk2 complete nozzle is giving 270fps +/-5fps. Plenty of adjustment either way to compensate for the weather and ammo weight.
I have the TM and AG Mk1 nozzles as spare spares should I trash the other two!
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6 hours ago, GothicGhost said:
And is the Dynamic Precision Reinforced Nozzle For TM M4A1 MWS better then the stock one?Dynamic Precision Reinforced Nozzle For TM M4A1 MWS
I have been using the TM nozzle and had a DP one as a spare. I tested it the other day and found a slight FPS increase (I think it seats deeper in the bucking)....and then the back ripped off it!
Mine was probably purchased 18mths ago and the spare from JKArmy (here in 5 days!) looks like a less shiny (less brittle?!) plastic.
I need to give it a proper test but initial thoughts are the TM valve doesn't fit as it is a hair too large a diameter. The alloy DP one is fine.
My TM nozzle has been giving inconsistent FPS (265, 266, 264, 150, 265...wait what?) and I think that is to do with the wear around the part that seals on the bucking.
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3 hours ago, GothicGhost said:
The shorter version I think 10.5 inches?
But I assumed its 14mm and YouTube review misinformed.
I have the 10.5" version and can confirm it is 14mm CCW.
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2 hours ago, Wild Weasel said:
Anybody has one of these this please?
http://www.wiitech.com.hk/product-detail.shtml?product_id=539&path=57_145
No experience with their ambi selector but I have a full set of their tigger internals and the materials, fit and finish are top notch. Might get some more of their stuff in the future.
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8 hours ago, GothicGhost said:
What the differences between version one and two magazines?
I assume I would only get version two now buying gun and mags new.
Thanks.
Not sure what the physical difference in the internals but the out-of-the-box efficiency means that the "green gas" mod (chopping the fill tube) isn't needed.
Search for Baddabing's MWS video on Youtube as I think he covered this last year (MWS 4 years later video?!)
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Today was some maintenance after last weekends woodland skirmish.
Modify Tan bucking changed out for an OG TM one. Tan one was starting to get chewed up after about 1200-1500rds. Plus it was really picky and one click more than "still dropping too far" had it skying 0.30g BBs.
Hoping the TM one will a) last longer and b) allow finer adjustment.
I tested the TM nozzle again and found that every 5th to 7th shot the fps dropped a lot. Rest of the time it was consistent. Average was 268fps (+/-5fps) but it would the throw in a 170 or 190fps for no reason. Nothing to do with the internal parts, I can only think that the nozzle is worn and scratched up so might not be sealing correctly leading to some gas leakage. Replacement DP nozzle is on its way from HK so will test then.
AngryGun nozzle and NPAS fitted currently as I need an NPAS for the warmer weather as the stock TM bits are giving 10-15fps above the limit so will keep them for cooler weather. Strangely it seems to have got a lot more consistent since I tested it last summer, keeping the fps +/-4 and a useful range of adjustment. Just makes me throw up a bit in my mouth that I have AG parts in my TM 🤮🤣
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1 hour ago, Urban Jaeger said:
Anyone got any ideas how the hell do I remove my fire selector? I have G&P adjustable trigger box installed and it has been working fine before but now when I did full cleanup on my MWS, also removing the trigger box and reinstalling after cleaning I ended up having some problems. The fire selector is moving just fine between semi and auto, but it gets really stiff about halfway between semi and safe. I can force it onto safe and it actually seems to work just fine when forced there. But the biggest problem is that I just cant seem to remove the fire selector no matter what I do. Any ideas what happened and how to fix?
I would check that the trigger box is seated fully in the lower receiver and that the fire selector is pressed in fully.
After that I would look to remove it (possibly with a drift if it is stiff...just be careful!) and look for burrs or other damage to it. Then check the trigger box components it interfaces with and check the trigger function.
Maybe test the trigger box out of the gun with the selector fitted?
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1 hour ago, Wild Weasel said:
Check this out:-
Wow, that probably came close to BaddaBings videos in terms of useful information and empirical data. I will be checking out the other videos on the channel.
Only let down by filling the mag with gas IN COMPLETELY THE WRONG WAY!!!! Do a 1s burst, wait a couple of seconds then do another. After 6x 1s fills wait a minute or two and top-up with a few more. They probably would have got over 120rds per mag if they had done that!
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5 hours ago, gunbod007 said:
I was only carrying 5 on plate carrier. Plus pistol and scootering belt. But after a year if not leaving the house it weighed me down haha. Jesus 10?!!
Where did you play on Sunday? I had woodland game where we did defend the base and move to the next when hit haha.
Spartan Woodland site near Bristol
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I played a woodland game on Sunday and can confirm that 6 in the chest rig and one in the gun is a good workout! For the two last games I used my AEG and the lower weight of 4 120rd mags was appreciated!
I used the Dynamic Precision lightweight bolt, G&P roller end and AG / G&P hybrid nozzle and parts. Chrono'd at 265fps in the morning (probably 5deg) and was ok for 4-5rd bursts if you didn't do it too often. Single shot was fine and got some good hits out to 40-50m (including one through a 15cm gap in a building from 30m 😁)
I struggled with the hop too, you had to buy the Bio bbs from the site and they did 0.30g or 0 40g. The 0.30g were a little light and 4 clicks of hop was too little, and 5 clicks was ramping them up too much. I have a spare TM rubber so might try that as the Modify tan might be ok for 0.36g anything less and it is a little too finiky!
I would agree that for Milsims and CQB the MWS is un-matched, where 3 spare mags is adequate for a game or you are patrolling / observing RoEs
Woodland games where you have 5 rolling "defend the base then move to the next when hit...rinse and repeat" on the trot...less so!
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2 hours ago, Hypokondrikern said:
@Davegolf Yeah, that's self explanatory
but there is no sign of that the trigger box needs a little love? Maybe its time to open up that trigger box after all. Two years of ownership + the unknown use of the previous owner.
@Jacket Lovely to hear. But you cant remember the brand? G&P?-- -- --
I am trying to build a milsim kit for longer games ( I more or less only play at Berget once a year ) and I want to have the MWS ready for this task. I have the complete rifle + a spare BCG. The nozzle and nozzle spring are the only "fragile" parts that might pose a problem during such games which are covered by the extra BCG I have. But what would be the next backup investment? The lower seems pretty solid. Would a second upper be useful? In case of hop problems? which already seem pretty rare... let me know if there is something I'm missingA spare bolt (or at least a complete nozzle) is a good start. Like you say feed nozzles and springs are the weak point and quite easy to change out.
I would add in a TM hop rubber and tools to change it. Rare that it would be trashed during a game but would make it U/S if it does.
Mag feed lips and gas router. Again rare to have an issue but could leave you a mag down (depends how many you have already!) Bit more of a faff to change in the field.
With all these things make sure you are confident in diagnosing an issue and fixing it with minimum faffing. You will have some downtime but you probably don't want to spend it fixing stuff!
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14 minutes ago, Davegolf said:
Have a good look for burrs or marring over on edges of the trigger parts
^ this. See where the trigger bar has worn the inside of the trigger box (usually at diagonally opposide corners) Polish that side of the trigger with some really fine wet+dry to make sure it doesn't bind under spring pressure.
The best lube is Graphite lock lube, it comes in a tiny thumb-sized spray bottle and is really slick, dry and doesn't attract dirt. £8 off Amazon and it will last for ages. Just make sure you wipe off the excess as it gets everywhere!
Failing that the WiiTech trigger parts are lovely and will improve the trigger but will cost £££££
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I have updated my long post above with the LOW power setting as I had some time today.
Unfortunately after setting it back to HIGH and checking it on the chrono the back of the DP nozzle sheared off 😱
So I popped the set up in the TM nozzle and tested it - with all TM parts it was putting out 220fps on HIGH. (0.30g BBs, Nuprol Green)
I put in the DP valve and spring and it went up to 261fps.
Then, because my day couldn't really get worse*, I sanded 0.1mm off the "pegs" on the front of the G&P valve stop.
High jumped from 261 to 296fps (+35fps) and Medium went up to 263fps (+22fps) This means that Medium is a useful power on green gas on 14degC days, and High can be used in winter conditions. I think that Low might still be a bit under powered but never mind!
Now lets hope that my TM nozzle survives tomorrows game!
JKArmy and Eagle6 are sorting me out with a nozzle, G&P roller bolt, little bolt roller and pin so I have a complete drop in spare ready to go 👍
*EOTech clone that arrived didn't work and when I tried to unscrew the cap to try another battery it wouldn't budge (not x-threaded) and then sheared the compartment off in the body.
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Fire Support were as speedy as usual and the G&P adjustable valve stop was delivered today.
TL;DR: 3 easy settings to tune to temps / gas - but may not play nice with stock TM parts, more testing needed.
Overview:
It comes with an o-ring to fit the "firing pin" end of the nozzle spring. Also included is a little grenade pin to help locate the valve stop and align the screw hole.
There are 3 sets of holes for the screw to fit, each a slightly different distance from the front meaning you have a low, medium and high setting as this controls how far back (or forward) the rocket valve sits. Kind of like a 3 step NPAS, but not interfering with the valve function and no chance of unscrewing and firing a grub screw down the barrel!
The brass body has some subtle flats machined into it meaning that it doesn't rotate as you push it down the nozzle to getting the correct hole lined up is easy. The pin makes it easier to locate as it is a snug (but not tight) fit in some nozzles and has to be perfectly straight to seat properly.
Testing:
First I tested my stock TM bolt set up (TM bolt, nozzle, valve, valve spring, Dynamic Precision upgraded nozzle spring set & green piston cup) to get a baseline with 0.30g on ASG gas at 14degC gave an average of 273fps (6fps spread)
I then used that exact set up with the G&P valve stop and it gave the following average FPS: Low - 61, Medium - 152, High - 230.
Yes, those are FEET per second, not meters! Great if you want to run black gas in the middle of a heatwave I guess??? Seems that it didn't play nice with the TM nozzle/valve for what ever reason. One day, when I have time, I will revisit this and try to pin down the issue, I am guessing the internal bore of the TM nozzle is the issue but I can't say for sure at this stage.
I then tested a set up I knew would increase the FPS - Premium Aftermarket Setup (Same TM bolt; Dynamic Precision nozzle, alloy valve, valve spring, upgraded nozzle spring & green piston cup)
Low - 145fps, Medium - 240fps, High - 277fps.
That is more like it! The consistency was also really good, I think from previous testing that this is down to the allow DP valve (3fps spread!). The medium setting will be great for running it in the summer (c. 20degC) or in cooler temps on Red gas. I am guessing the low will be around the 200-210fps mark so probably not that useful unless you have loads of Nuprol Black gas kicking about.
Summary:
A nicely made bit of kit that does exactly what it should and gives enough adjustment for UK weather and gas options. I just need to work out why it hated the TM nozzle, valve and valve spring so much! YMMV.
Pictures:
Blue background - G&P nozzle stop kit, Red background - Dynamic Precision valve
- RMDavis, Wild Weasel and TadsJ2
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27 minutes ago, TadsJ2 said:
m/s to FPS is just a matter of conversion... But okay, no problem, so, after playing more with the nozzles I am sorry to say that i give an edge to AG v2 nozzle
It hold FPS/ m/s better, and on medium AG NPAS i get to shoot on around 360-370FPS with everything else stock. With TM stock i get to shoot on around 345-355 FPS for roughly the same gas efficiency... So for now, i am going to stay with AG v2 nozzle, until the G&P adjustable nozzle valve 5.0 and valve stopper comes to me... One thing i noticed that AG V2 nozzle has longer lip which seats better in the stock tm hop up rubber, seems to me it gives better seal and FPS out of it, with highest "power" setting on the nozzle i managed to get 413FPS , but of course after 10shots the magazine was out of gas 
Mine was a v1, but there is no way I am giving them any more money for a v2! Using customers as paying r&d / putting out shoddy products is not acceptable.
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11 hours ago, TadsJ2 said:
Can I just clarify? When you were trying AG nozzle set up you were trying all AG nozzle internals right?
I personally switched from AG nozzle set up with all AG internals to TM stock nozzle... I only wanted to change the return spring in TM stock, but couldnt take out the pin out of firing pin, so i've taken the pin out of AG firing pin (nozzle return metal side part) ant put the new AG 170% nozzle return spring and the metal part on the return spring from AG.
So my nozzle return is setup as such: TM nozzle stopper, AG 170% nozzle return spring, AG firing pin - all this inside stock TM nozzle, do you think this could cause a problem?I already am waiting for G&P reinforced drop in nozzle set, as i think it will be better then TM?
Yeah it was the AG nozzle and components. With out some fettling with a file the internals lack the flat sides that the TM nozzle bore had.
I have ordered a G&P valve stopper (that attaches to the front of the nozzle spring) as it has 3 different sets of holes drilled in it for the tiny Phillips screw to locate in - each hole allows the stop to sit forward (lower power), in the middle, or further back (higher power). Zero chance of self-adjusting or doing odd things to the valve flow
Hopefully this alomg with the DP valve will give consistent results, as before, but allow low-med-high power tuning for varying temps.
3 hours ago, TadsJ2 said:I've come back from work, and after rereading your thoughts about FPS measurements i thought i should give it a go with my modified TM stock nozzle (with AG 170% nozzle return spring, and AG firing pin) - with 0,2g bbs first few shots was 108, 107m/s, then it gradually declined to about ~100-98m/s - is this normal for m/s to gradually decline after each 2 shots being shot on semi?
Yeah velocity will vary once the mag settles down, and if you fire shots quickly there will be some cool-down and drop in pressure.
I have found that the spread of velocities is worse with 0.20g. Heavier ammo seems to keep the variance smaller. I would say +/- 8 fps between shots is good, and it will probably drop 20 to 25fps over a mag full. Makes next to no difference to accuracy / performance.
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21 hours ago, Iceni said:
If you are using low caps there's a good chance you are either in a mill sim, or play in a very frugal fashion with ammo
OR use a gas rifle where 35rds per mag is usual! Once you get used to it you can work around it and know when you can make a shot and when to hold off and get closer. On the plus side carrying 6 heavy mags around the field is a great work out!
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1 hour ago, camden said:
Could not agree with you more. I have an AG suppressor thast just about 'works' as in: it doesn't fall off.
Just tried to set up my spare Dynamic Precision bolt with an AG nozzle set up - absolute tosh. FPS was +/- 18 and all over the place!
Replaced it with DP nozzle (very tough, dense feeling plastic, all DP springs) and RATech Black NPAS and it is much more efficient and FPS is pretty consistent.
I will be taking the springs and screws out of the AG valve as back-up last-ditch spares and binning the rest!
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Dynamic Precision MWS rocket valve test.
Purchsed from the great people at Fire Support.
https://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/dynamic-precision-enhanced-nozzle-valve-for-marui-m4a1-mws
It looks a lot like the polymer TM one but is made from Aluminium.
It fits nicely in the nozzle and works with the TM spring.
Testing it in direct comparison to the TM set up with ASG gas and 0.30g BBs there was an average gain of 8fps, but a reduction in fluctuations between shots (+/-4fps, vs +/-7fps with the TM valve)
Switching to the stronger DP spring gave the expected jump in output, raising to an average of 293fps (285fps limit on most fields with 0.30g)
Bottom line is that it is probably easier to get one of these than the TM one, and in doing so it won't change the gun too much.
I plan to fix a thin disc to the back to try and drop the fps while using the stronger spring so I can have this in the DP lightweight bolt I have spare.
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6 hours ago, AlphaBear said:
Guys, I did some FPS testing way back in January using a G&P BCG and a Marui BCG.
For those who want to know what power you get from using Abbey Ultra Predator gas (the one that comes in a red can) see the attached pic. I did some testing using 0.3 Geoffs and 0.2 Excels at a temperature of 20c (I do believe). The left side shows a G&P bolt carrier group. On the right is the standard Marui bolt. The max figure for the G&P bolt was 387fps!! With the Marui bolt it was 329fps on 0.2s. Interesting results eh? The mag was filled up each time fresh of course which explains the initial high power.
The main reason for the G&P bolt having a higher output is the floating valve in the nozzle. Obviously it's set to allow more gas to get pumped into the valve. Yes I can remedy this with a G&P NPAS which I do have but just haven't got round to installing it.... I will do at some point and then report back... (but don't hold me to that lol)
Solid work 👍🏻 I notice that there isn't a linear relationship between the 0.30g and 0.20g results - Take for example the TM bolt set up with an average of 285fps on a 0.30g, the same energy 0.20g BB should be going about 350fps....but the result is only about 320fps. I guess this is to do with the acceleration of heavier BBs, time to clear the barrel and effect on how fast the rocket valve closes. In all AEGs I have tested shooting at 285fps with 0.30g will always fire a 0.20g at 350fps just by changing the ammo weight.
So well below the limit if tested at a site on 0.20g BB, but as soon as you put in 0.30gs to play and it might be (slightly) over the limit 🧐
UPDATE:
I have just tested my stock bolt/nozzle MWS with both 0.20g and 0.30g BBs (same brand, ASG gas, 11degC in the shed) and found that over 10 shots:0.20g BB = 312 fps / 0.9 Joules
0.30g BB = 270 fps / 1.02 Joules
0.36g BB = 244 fps / 1.0 Joules ***UPDATED*** Looks like the short barrel and valve design keeps the power within Japanese limits even with very heavy ammo (IIRC TMs' are designed around 0.25g) ***UPDATED***
If I "adjust" the 0.30g BBs to equate them to 0.20g giving the same power predicted average is 331 fps, about 20fps difference
I have a Dynamic Precision valve coming with my FireSupport order so will give that a try with the exact same set up and see what difference the alloy (heavier) valve will make. I am guessing a boost to the power / fps.
THE TM MWS thread
in Gas Guns
Posted
I don't think there would be extra stress involved as the pressure of the gas would be constant. A longer barrel simply allows a larger volume of gas a longer time to accelerate the BB, before the rocket valve closes and the bolt cycles. Slightly more gas per shot, higher BB speed but no change in the pressure of the system.