People’s view of how the sport of airsoft skirmishing will fair if Labour win the election

[Pseudotectonic]

This is going back to the discussion of having an association/federation/facebook group

 

Who should be keeping track of and able to pull out numbers about the airsoft economy

[gavinkempsell]

Still bent british industry over the table.

[Tiercel]

1 hour ago, hunter511 said:

But airsofters aren't unionised...... which would have helped with Thatcher (and Starmer)

 

But... then what do UKAPU do..?🤔

1 hour ago, hunter511 said:

But airsofters aren't unionised...... which would have helped with Thatcher (and Starmer)

 

But... then what do UKAPU do..?🤔

[hunter511]

6 minutes ago, Tiercel said:

 

But... then what do UKAPU do..?🤔

 

But... then what do UKAPU do..?🤔

Thats a REALLY good question..... and one I've also not seen an answer to

[Shamal]

20 minutes ago, hunter511 said:

Thats a REALLY good question..... and one I've also not seen an answer to

If you have a problem or there is a cause to fight then they can help.

You will only know if it's put to the test. But they have fought in the past to keep our limits what they are today.

[hunter511]

11 minutes ago, Shamal said:

If you have a problem or there is a cause to fight then they can help.

You will only know if it's put to the test. But they have fought in the past to keep our limits what they are today.

Thats certainly what they claim to have done. However I have yet to see a single piece of evidence.

 

I could claim to have sold my left testicle for funds to fight the VCRB before it became the VCRA but the fact is a very few individuals from the community did all the heavy lifting.

[Tackle]

1 hour ago, Shamal said:

If you have a problem or there is a cause to fight then they can help.

 

[Cannonfodder]

6 hours ago, Shamal said:

But they have fought in the past to keep our limits what they are today.

So they claim, despite being formed a few years after the vcra became law

[Pseudotectonic]

In the spirit of larping we can actually wargame this out:

 

In what circumstances would the VCRA be amended to not allow RIFs being sold to airsofters?

 

(I'm surprised GPT actually came up with some half decent answer, for comprehensiveness I'm editing collating the key points below)

 

Quote

Threats:

 

1. Public safety concerns - If there is evidence of increase in public safety concerns related to misuse of RIFs / Rising incidents of RIFs being used in criminal activities / Evidence of a significant increase in airsoft-related injuries or accidents / Concerns over the potential for RIFs to be mistaken for real firearms in public spaces

2. Public opinion - Pressure from anti-gun advocacy groups / Changes in public opinion towards airsoft and replica firearms / Public outcry or pressure from advocacy groups calling for stricter regulations on airsoft gun ownership / If there is a shift in societal attitudes towards the use of weapons in recreational activities, leading to a greater emphasis on safety and responsible ownership.

3. Pressure from authorities - Pressure from government-led initiatives to reduce access to replica firearms / Recommendations from law enforcement agencies to restrict access to RIFs / If there are improvements in technology that allow for better identification and tracking of RIFs, making it easier to enforce stricter regulations / If there is a need to address loopholes or gaps in current regulations regarding airsoft guns

4. International pressures - Upholding international arms control agreements / International or domestic security threats: In response to specific security threats or incidents, the government may decide to tighten restrictions on the sale of RIFs to airsofters to prevent any potential misuse or exploitation by individuals or groups with malicious intent

 

 

Can you suggest actions airsofter can take to prevent these items

 

Quote

1. Airsofters can work together to promote proper safety measures, such as enforcing age restrictions, ensuring proper storage of RIFs, and promoting responsible use of airsoft guns to prevent accidents and misuse. / To address public safety concerns related to airsoft, airsofters can actively participate in safety training programs and promote responsible use of RIFs within the community. They can also report any misuse of RIFs to authorities and cooperate with law enforcement to prevent incidents. Additionally, airsofters can educate the public about the differences between real firearms and RIFs to reduce the likelihood of mistaken identity in public spaces.

2. Airsofters can engage in community outreach, education, and advocacy to promote a positive image of the airsoft community and show that airsoft is a safe and responsible recreational activity. / In response to changes in public opinion, airsofters can engage in advocacy efforts to promote the positive aspects of airsoft as a recreational activity and demonstrate the importance of regulations that balance safety with the enjoyment of the sport. They can also work to build relationships with community leaders and stakeholders to address concerns and dispel misconceptions about airsoft.

3. Airsofters can collaborate with law enforcement agencies to develop guidelines and best practices for the responsible ownership and use of RIFs, as well as to address any concerns or recommendations from authorities to prevent misuse of airsoft guns. / They can also participate in discussions with government officials and law enforcement agencies to provide input on proposed regulations and suggest alternative solutions to address any identified issues. By proactively working with authorities, airsofters can help shape regulations that are fair and reasonable.

4. Airsofters can stay informed about international arms control agreements and actively participate in discussions and negotiations to ensure that any regulations or restrictions on the sale of RIFs to airsofters are fair, reasonable, and do not unfairly target law-abiding enthusiasts. / They can also engage with international organizations and participate in discussions on security threats to demonstrate the responsible use of airsoft guns and advocate for regulations that prioritize safety and security. By promoting a positive image of the airsoft community on a global scale, airsofters can help mitigate concerns about potential risks associated with the sale of RIFs.

 

This AI is not bad

[Cannonfodder]

With airsoft being far more popular and mainstream than it was 15-20 years ago I think any attempt to restrict or ban rifs is going to get more push back than when the vcra was being discussed 

[ruskitseller]

20 hours ago, Pseudotectonic said:

This is going back to the discussion of having an association/federation/facebook group

 

Who should be keeping track of and able to pull out numbers about the airsoft economy

Yes you are spot on. This forum is a good start and there are also many airsoft associations and general shooting groups. 

 

I wonder if there is some official lobby group that unites all of these...or maybe UKARA or some other group do that to some degree in terms of the retailers who support it...No idea. 

 

I see this chap asked for data in 2018. I imagine the only ones who really know are the retailers. It would be very interesting to know a figure of how much it generates though and likely put a lot of minds at ease. 

 

Cheers

 

Edited June 2 by ruskitseller

[Cannonfodder]

7 minutes ago, ruskitseller said:

This forum is a good start and there are also many airsoft associations and general shooting groups. 

You're right that there's many self proclaimed official airsoft groups, but the sum total of what they've contributed to the hobby is ⅘s of fuck all. If I had a pound for every time a new organisation popped up claiming to be the saviours of airsoft, only to never be heard from again I could probably afford a TM NGRS upgraded by DCA.

 

As for other shooting groups, they'll often try to distance themselves from airsoft and in the past have seemed to deliberately throw us under the bus in an attempt to save themselves. To me this is very short sighted as many airsofters are interested in other shooting disciplines.

[TheFull9]

The only people (person?  speaking dog?  sentient rock monster?) I can think of who might have a rough number of active players would be UKARA.  Except far as I'm aware we still have zero real clue who holds this mystical database with (presumably) 10s of thousands of people's information on it.  I'd honestly love to be wrong on this one though.

 

Actually just had a quick dig, not sure if it's been mentioned before but the random-af address linked to UKARA's GDPR reg is just a totally bland wood block on the Cornish coast right next to a GCHQ site.  Said site has a stronger fence line that any MoD establishment I've ever visited and is bristling with radar/radio dishes.. tinfoil fully deployed 😂  The first google review for the site is just stunning lol.

[Pseudotectonic]

Amazingly the story of UKARA is truly becoming lost history because their operation is so obscure.

 

Here is a brief mention of it being an Excel file sitting at a site called Ironfoot Airsoft that used to exist (near the GCHQ site), but the farmhouse is now demolished.

 

So there is really no solid up-to-date information of exactly who and where and how UKARA is maintained.

[Asomodai]

14 minutes ago, Pseudotectonic said:

Amazingly the story of UKARA is truly becoming lost history because their operation is so obscure.

 

Here is a brief mention of it being an Excel file sitting at a site called Ironfoot Airsoft that used to exist (near the GCHQ site), but the farmhouse is now demolished.

 

So there is really no solid up-to-date information of exactly who and where and how UKARA is maintained.

Fire Support nominally run it. UKARA was essentially created by Frank at Fire Support, Wolf Armouries in Camden and Zero One. 

[Pseudotectonic]

@Asomodai While I do not doubt your credibility, is there an "official source" where this info can be checked?

 

BTW I just noticed a fun fact, UKARA charges a £300 annual fee from each of their retailer members, there are 64 retailers on their website so this is a ~£19k fund annually for maintaining the database. So I assume this is all going to Fire Support?

[Asomodai]

12 hours ago, Pseudotectonic said:

@Asomodai While I do not doubt your credibility, is there an "official source" where this info can be checked?

 

BTW I just noticed a fun fact, UKARA charges a £300 annual fee from each of their retailer members, there are 64 retailers on their website so this is a ~£19k fund annually for maintaining the database. So I assume this is all going to Fire Support?

It's not on the UKARA website. But it's well known that Frank from FS is the chair of UKARA. He doesn't have to be transparent about it. The idea is that the player asks the site for UKARA info, if it was transparent that Frank was the Chairmen, imagine the idiotic questions that would be sent to him from the average player? 

 

Search for Frank and UKARA and you'll get lots of references to him being the chair. 

 

 

 

 

https://arniesairsoft.co.uk/news2/85557

 

Edited June 3 by Asomodai

[Pseudotectonic]

It appears to me that UKARA has a monopoly of lobbying power because they hold the secret sauce data of the airsoft market. However because they are not really an airsoft association they do not have the capacity to take on the role of one. A full fledged airsoft association should really be doing a number of stuff even during "peace time", e.g. PR and promoting safety and improving the hobby etc (see suggestions from GPT above). So that the public perception of our hobby does not depend entirely on external factors such as whichever party is in charge.

In other words, the toy gun illuminati might be too good at being secretive it is unintentionally trapping the hobby in the fringe zone it originated from.

[Rogerborg]

I'll be that guy again, and ask: if you feel strongly that UKAPU isn't doing what you want, what's stopping you from volunteering to join it, and changing that? 

[ak2m4]

Make Airsoft Great Again

[John_W]

On 04/06/2024 at 09:04, Rogerborg said:

I'll be that guy again, and ask: if you feel strongly that UKAPU isn't doing what you want, what's stopping you from volunteering to join it, and changing that? 

Which one would you join? The Popular Front for Airsoft,  the People's Airsoft Front,  the People's Front for Airsoft? Or perhaps the Airsoft Peoples Popular Front?

[Colin Allen]

1 hour ago, John_W said:

Which one would you join? The Popular Front for Airsoft,  the People's Airsoft Front,  the People's Front for Airsoft? Or perhaps the Airsoft Peoples Popular Front?

UKAPU; that was what the discussion was about.

[Jamsandwich]

1 hour ago, John_W said:

Which one would you join? The Popular Front for Airsoft,  the People's Airsoft Front,  the People's Front for Airsoft? Or perhaps the Airsoft Peoples Popular Front?

 

1 minute ago, Colin Allen said:

UKAPU; that was what the discussion was about.

 

[John_W]

Having taken the time to read the Labour Manifesto, their specific focus is on reducing Knife Crime. No mention of Gun Crime or Replicas.

Unlike 2005 when they specificaly mentioned Replicas, though only in regards to raising the purchase age.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4335097.stm

[Airpig41]

I was looking at another forum recently and they noted an intention within the Labour manifesto to increase firearms licensing to cover the full costs involved. Now I know that's not airsoft but shooters of ALL disciplines should be aware that if one group is targeted successfully then you can bet your last BB that they will look elsewhere to do something similar.

Get more money in from our sport, maybe ban it, or more difficult to access. Who knows.

You can never trust these politicians........