Jump to content

Engagement Distance for Snipers


Reef
 Share

This thread is over three months old. Please be sure that your post is appropriate as it will revive this otherwise old (and possibly forgotten) topic.

Recommended Posts

Hello,

 

I'm going to ask this question at our local site this weekend but was wondering on the thoughts of the collective.

 

We've just bought a VSR10 and reading the local sites rules the engagement distance is 30m for snipers.  I've worked out that the joule rating of the VSR10 will be around 1.16 max and at the site says snipers can go up to 2.3 Joule. This makes me think that the gun will be woefully underpowered for 30m. 

 

My questions are, why is the distance set on the type of gun and not the joule/power? As the rifle is lower powered is it the 'done thing' to engage at a closer distance? 

 

Sorry if this is a daft question, I'm sure I'm missing something.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Not daft on your part, the sites are making a very common assumption that any snipers will be running at or close to their maximum limit, whereas your out of the box sniper is only doing close to the aeg limit , which would seem unfair. 

Best thing you could do is explain this to the site, give them a call & see if they'll allow you to run it with a different contact criteria, explain its running at aeg levels & until you get it upgraded, it's more about practicing the field craft than getting long range kills.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When you Chrono the gun the marshall should tell you if you have an med or not. At 1.16j you're still in auto/AEG territory.

Have you worked it out or have you chrono'd it? On what weight ammo?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be difficult to treat each gun on a case by case basis and get this communicated out to people and it not cause management issues.

Med is somewhat arbitrary because of the energy loss over relatively short distances is considerable and is more with a greater starting energy.

However rules are rules.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Egon_247 said:

Have you worked it out or have you chrono'd it? On what weight ammo?

I've just worked it out using an online calculator on .28 BB's which I'm planning on using.

Totally get that it would be impractical to treat each gun on a case by case biases and I will stick to the 30m rule if asked too.  

I'll talk to the marshals when I get the gun chrono'd on Saturday and see what's said.

 

Thanks for the input and glad it wasn't a stupid question :)

 

 

8 minutes ago, Impulse said:

 

If you're unsure at your local site, I'd just speak with the marshalls and clarify. I can't imagine they'd saddle you with an MED if you're shooting at 1.14J or lower,

 

Thanks Impulse, I will take .2, .25, .28 BB's with me so if needs be I can make sure I'm under the 1.14J limit. The marshalls have been really helpful so far at the site so I'll take their advice.

Personally I don't have an issue with the 30m limit but my son who's 12 wants to use the rifle and I don't think he can judge distances as well as me, I don't want to get him into trouble or piss off other players. We don't have sidearms (yet).

 

My son and i will come down to Worthing Airsoft soon, only heard good things about this place.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Rogerborg, 

 

I've got a lot to learn on this, I've never fired a boltie and haven't put a round through our new gun yet. I'll see what happens the weekend and report back :)

 

I think we've fallen into the typical noob trap of getting over excited and buying loads of stuff. Hey ho, what else is money for.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From a marshalls point of view yes you shouldn't be subjected to a MED, but other than giving lower powered bolt action/DMRs highly visible tags it's too much of a ball ache trying to distinguish who should have a MED. Especially having to constantly deal with with players who don't understand what a snipers role is and try to do base clearance with a high-powered gun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Supporters
4 hours ago, Reef said:

I think we've fallen into the typical noob trap of getting over excited and buying loads of stuff. Hey ho, what else is money for.  

 

Practically mandatory.  I enjoy bolt action, it's a different style of play. And (especially when you're defensive) you're often within the range of other guns anyway, even if you're shooting at 2.3J.  Sneak and poke and have fun with it, it's all good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Reef said:

I've got a lot to learn on this, I've never fired a boltie and haven't put a round through our new gun yet. I'll see what happens the weekend and report back :)

 

If you live close to Dogtag then maybe get yourself over to Socom Tactical or Surplus Store before you play and get a stronger VSR spring, and you may be lucky and they can help you fit it there and then if you bring your pew pew with you :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Fatboy40 said:

 

If you live close to Dogtag then maybe get yourself over to Socom Tactical or Surplus Store before you play and get a stronger VSR spring, and you may be lucky and they can help you fit it there and then if you bring your pew pew with you :)

We actually bought the rifle from Surplus Store. I won’t be able to get over there before Saturday but happy to give it a go with stock spring.

I found a hank of rope in the garage that is 30m and laid it out, it’s actually not as far as I thought. Looks like our usual engagement distance for our AR’s on a wide game to be honest.

 

Thanks for all the help and advice, really appreciated.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I said I’d report back.

 

I think the gun crono’d at 1.17 with .28 BB’s. Marshall’s said we had to adhere to the 30m rule which was fine. We will use the heavier BB’s as recommended by you guys next time but I’d already bought the .28’s so thought we’d use them as a test.

 

How did the games go? No idea, my son took the rifle and hogged it the whole time… He said it was excellent and really enjoyed using it. The only game where he switched to his other gun was the last game which was a CQB.

He said we need to get a Bipod as it was hard to hold for long periods, can anyone recommend one?

 

Hopefully I’ll get a look in next time we play but I’ve just seen him searching for ghilly suits so I’m not sure.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm glad to hear it was enjoyed. Ii found Bipods are a mixed bag and gave up using one, instead I use a rip off pouch and put soft stuff in it. Then rip it off to use as a sandbag style rest when need.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Same with the bipod. Most of the time they're just dead weight and you're better off bracing against an arm/leg/tree, etc. Particularly with VSR, adding a bipod is probably going to near double the weight anyway (okay, a slight exaggeration, but then again I've got this Parker-Hale bipod that probably makes that an accurate statement)

 

Usually bipods end up just being used to stand the gun in the safe zone on rather than shoot from, unless you're talking something particularly heavy (support weapon, EBR-14, etc). However, if you're determined to have one, I'd suggest something like a Harris - I'm sure there are plenty of clones but I've not used them. They're lightweight and quick to deploy with spring loaded legs and usually the ability to cant to one side or other to keep the rifle level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, I told him to just use the terrain or branches to hold the gun up. Anything that makes it notably heavier I think is bad news, one of its key things is it’s so light. 
I’ll get him to try again and see what he says.

Great idea on the pouch, I’ve used something similar for camera lenses in the past.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a massive advocate for bipods, but on something lightweight like a VSR it isn't worth it. As @Hatchet said, it almost doubles the weight, or at least it feels like it because it massively shifts the weight of the rifle because it's lightweight by itself, so a large lump of metal near the front makes it front heavy and nasty to handle. For heavier stuff like M14s it's worth it because they're heavier, so harder to hold up for long periods of time anyway, and also because they're heavier the bipod doesn't have such a massive impact on the balance of the rifle, but I wouldn't put one on a VSR unless you get the heavier Maple Leaf stock; the regular stock and receiver setup's strength is that it's so light.

 

The sand sock has been used in the military for a long time. It's basically just a sock that is filled with sand and then tied off so it's a good rifle rest. I liked @concretesnail's idea of getting a tear-off pouch and filling it with soft stuff and then using that as a rest, as that's likely going to be fairly lightweight and can be worn on a belt kit or chest rig so you won't feel the weight much anyway, but will give you a steady place to rest your rifle when in a hide position.

 

Glad to hear the lad enjoyed running around with a bolt action, even one that was under-powered and still saddled with an MED; it's a very satisfying way of playing for sure! I would actually focus on the rifle before going for a ghillie though, as he'll learn better camo and concealment fieldcraft if he doesn't get reliant on a ghillie suit. It's amazing what you can do with good camo and concealment skills while wearing regular DPM, or even just flat olive drab! I see a lot of ghillie snipers who have awful fieldcraft and they're incredibly easy to counter-snipe. Having a rifle that performs well is always useful though and I'm sure he'll appreciate it when he's able to reach out to 75m with decent accuracy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks impulse, he’s been watching people like Sillyghillie and CamMan, I’ve just seen the prices of a decent suit so yes, field craft will come first!

The rest I used to have for camera lenses had polystyrene balls inside so was light and you could shape them, bit like a small beanbag. I also think the idea or Velcro is great, I’ll see what I can come up with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd say if you spend a lot of time prone and needing to stay dead still for 10+ minures, then a bipod is worthwhile. Otherwise you can often find something to rest it on. 

 

On ghillies, a concealment vest is about £40 and is an excellent base to craft on, no need to go for the expensive suits right away. BDUs + net + shoe goo is even cheaper. Green and brown cotton can be cheap, but tricky to get the right colours online. The ghillie packs of cotton are good colours but more expensive. Raffia is very cheap, nutscene do some excellent dyed colours. 

 

But good field craft is required to make it effective. 

Edited by Badgerlicious
Bush update
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is over three months old. Please be sure that your post is appropriate as it will revive this otherwise old (and possibly forgotten) topic.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...