Membership numbers and influence

[DanBow]

I've just posted some copy off faceache about UKAPU that was posted there yesterday, and that got me thinking. Yes, I know, I shouldn't!

 

Are we, airsoft-forums.uk, not a large enough collection of players to be classed as influential? There has been a lot of talk on here about the various organisations that want to represent us at a more national level but they post, what is possibly a good news for them story, but no mention of it on here! I know fb gets the numbers but I've always found that the real knowledge base is on the forums. I'm on a few different forums for this reason and even I am on fb I very rarely post. Yes, I know some of oyu are thinking that I should take the dame stance here too!

 

I don't want this to turn into a ukapu bashing/loving thread but what are your thoughts about it?

[Dan Robinson]

Whilst there are plenty of registered users,  there are only a few tens of regularly active contributers. 

 

That's not to say we can't be of a positive influence within the hobby.   It active social media groups brainstorming and lobbying their industry contacts that have pushed forward some rapid modernisation in our industry rather than the self appointed "organisations".

[Pseudotectonic]

I won't talk about UKAPU here

 

I think in order to represent something you need to first have a clear definition of that something

 

And airsoft is a very broad and nebulous cluster of activities generally revolving around "RIFs" and "skirmishing" as defined in law, but really there is no single way of playing or enjoying the hobby, in other words it is very open for interpretation, and my opinion is that this open nature is something quite quintessential at the core of airsoft, that there is a spirit of play and discovery and fun within what can perhaps be called a sandbox

 

You can invent your own subset of airsoft (e.g. speedsoft) and make some official rules for it and call it speedsoft, or slowsoft if you prefer, but I don't think anyone can possible claim authority to define, hence represent, the bigger airsoft as a whole

[Cannonfodder]

I'd guess groups claiming to represent airsoft would post to faceache as that's where they have the biggest audience. Unfortunately though size isn't everything (stop giggling at the back). I'd rather spend time on a smaller forum like this where the quality of information is higher, than the average airsoft group on social media which are full of morons who think they know everything 

[Impulse]

6 hours ago, Pseudotectonic said:

or slowsoft if you prefer

 

Calling out 90% of airsofters right here 😂

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

I've spent years with pressure groups, political parties etc.  Organisation works better than numbers every time.  

 

Ever heard of the Taxpayers Alliance?  It's 'Britain's non-political grassroots voice of the taxpayer.'  It's actually two disgruntled ex-members of one party who seem to get prime press coverage whenever they damn well like.  

 

Alternatively, try and get on the executive of Just Stop Oil or Femen...

[Mad dog 49]

23 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

 I'd rather spend time on a smaller forum like this where the quality of information is higher, than the average airsoft group on social media which are full of morons who think they know everything 

100% agree with this. The standard of banter and actually useful (borne out of real experience) advice and information on here, beats anything I've seen on FB.  FB groups are quite toxic on the whole, I'm not sure I'd want anything created and administrated on/via FB being the governing body or voice of the sport. 

[John_W]

On 25/02/2024 at 00:25, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

I've spent years with pressure groups, political parties etc.  Organisation works better than numbers every time.  

 

Ever heard of the Taxpayers Alliance?  It's 'Britain's non-political grassroots voice of the taxpayer.'  It's actually two disgruntled ex-members of one party who seem to get prime press coverage whenever they damn well like.  

 

Alternatively, try and get on the executive of Just Stop Oil or Femen...

Don't forget our "Nemesis" the Gun Control Network. It started with seven members and is now left with Gill Marshall-Andrews and his wife collecting newspaper cuttings.

Despite all this they are still getting quoted by newspapers and politicians as some kind of expert source.

Edited March 2 by John_W
Spelling

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

On 02/03/2024 at 10:18, John_W said:

Don't forget our "Nemesis" the Gun Control Network. It started with seven members and is now left with Gill Marshall-Andrews and his wife collecting newspaper cuttings.

Despite all this they are still getting quoted by newspapers and politicians as some kind of expert source.

Spot on!

 

I vote we nominate someone on the forum to act as spokesperson for the Airsofters' Alliance and ask them to put out authoritative press statements until they're accepted as a lazily sourced supplier of info for time pressed journos.  

 

We'll read through the UK Law threads and select Rogerborg someone.   

 

 

[Leo Greer]

In order to have influence, I suspect you need one of two things: either a large base of active members, or an irrelevantly sized base with connections to the industry.

 

For example, I participate on several other airsoft forums that don’t have a large amount of active members. However, we have a few folks who are connected in one way or another to the industry. One of the admins for the chief American airsoft forum is a distributor for MOS (E&L and Arcturus). On the AirsoftSniper forums there are several members who design, produce, and sell custom upgrade parts and even complete custom projects.

[Pseudotectonic]

How about we talk about inventing a ruleset for new airsoft sport (Neosoft?):

 

1. A presentable version of airsoft that highlights sportsmanship and benefits of being the safest gun sport available

 

2. Long term goal to becoming an international sport federation recognised by IOC so we can have gunfighting Olympics

[Shamal]

4 minutes ago, Pseudotectonic said:

How about we talk about inventing a ruleset for new airsoft sport (Neosoft?):

 

1. A presentable version of airsoft that highlights sportsmanship and benefits of being the safest gun sport available

 

2. Long term goal to becoming an international sport federation recognised by IOC so we can have gunfighting Olympics

What? suits and shiny boots and 'Splendid shot old chap','Bravo' 😉

[ParHunter]

22 minutes ago, Pseudotectonic said:

2. Long term goal to becoming an international sport federation recognised by IOC so we can have gunfighting Olympics

That would certainly be in the spirit of the Olympic Games 😉

But it would also be a block buster on TV. Just imagine the USA playing Russia!

[Pseudotectonic]

Why the heck not, it is not milsim, it is not speedsoft, I guess in principle any clothing/equipments 1. should not impede hit detection and 2. should also be safe, so a suit might be appropriate, while a plate carrier is not because of excessive padding

 

So there might be a "Goldilocks zone" of a clothing regime that is balanced between feedback (feeling hits) and safety (protection from welts), perhaps we will need experiments, we need a list of example clothing that you can reliably feel a hit through it but not get a bruise from it... we need some volunteers, some basic testing protocols, and some pen and paper... and a fashion designer to collaborate with

 

PS In fact, we need to first decide the joule levels that is legal in most countries so we can have a realistic prospect of going international

[Pseudotectonic]

PPS This will be a new sport, there will be new ways to play, to dress, and to customise your airsoft, there will be newly designed airsoft fields that is more fun and accessible, it will develop its own aesthetics and culture (just as speedsoft did, but differently of course), and potentially an expanded hobby and market to the benefit of the entire industry and supply chain and ultimately more options, and fun, for the players

[Tommikka]

25 minutes ago, ParHunter said:

That would certainly be in the spirit of the Olympic Games 😉

 

 

The primary spirit of the Olympic Games being military skills.  

[Pseudotectonic]

We have shooting sports in Olympics, we have team sports in Olympics, there is really no reason why a gunfighting team sport cannot exist in Olympics, if it can be done safely, and fairly

[EDcase]

The problem with airsoft as a real competitive sport is its just too easy to cheat.

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

2 hours ago, EDcase said:

The problem with airsoft as a real competitive sport is its just too easy to cheat.

Fencers wear suits that register hits.  No reason that airsofters couldn't in a real competition.  

[BigStew]

31 minutes ago, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

Fencers wear suits that register hits.  No reason that airsofters couldn't in a real competition.  

fencing as a completive sport is done indoors where as airsoft is quiet often played outers where there is tree branches tall grass, knocking into structures and weather such as rain. Any suits sensors would be going off every other second. 

[EDcase]

2 hours ago, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

Fencers wear suits that register hits.  No reason that airsofters couldn't in a real competition.  

Foil & Saber fencing use simple electrical circuits in a limited space where the two participants are tethered with a cable to the control box.

I've thought about it before and honestly don't know how accurate scoring could be achieved with airsoft.

 

The closest related tech would be laser tag but that is obviously more accurate than blowing BBs out of a tube so they wouldn't be compatible.

Personally I'd be happy to drop the whole BB firing thing to be replaced with low power laser or IR and mechanical recoil.

It would essentially be a version of laser tag with more realistic weapons.

I'd miss making holes in paper targets of course but worth it I think to eliminate the honour system.

(And no, I'm not going to bugger off to play laser tag instead because they don't use RIFs 😄)

 

But having a robust scoring system would be the first step to making it a legitimate sport.

Although the premise of people 'shooting' each other in mock combat for fun may still have some opposition.

 

 

 

Edited March 5 by EDcase

[EDcase]

-Double post-

Edited March 5 by EDcase

[Rogerborg]

9 hours ago, BigStew said:

fencing as a completive sport is done indoors where as airsoft is quiet often played outers where there is tree branches tall grass, knocking into structures and weather such as rain. Any suits sensors would be going off every other second. 

 

... acorns...

 

 

[Madhouse]

9 hours ago, EDcase said:

Personally I'd be happy to drop the whole BB firing thing to be replaced with low power laser or IR and mechanical recoil.

It would essentially be a version of laser tag with more realistic weapons.

 

This is actually a pretty good idea, it'd certainly rule out ambiguity as to whether someone's been hit or not although the new version of cheating the chrono will be installing a military grade laser 🤣. Side benefits are that not using a projectile will also appease a lot of the haters and it'd also mean that all the sellers in Mack's whose pew 'shoots like a laser' will finally be correct.

 

Of course the major barrier is that it's a global sport so you'd either need everyone to swap at the same time or more realistically develop some kind of retro-fit device to turn dry fire into a laser beam.

[Dan Robinson]

But I like shooting puddles.