How to setup ad-hoc fire teams

[ParHunter]

Hi,

 

My son (14) got me into Airsoft and I enjoy it more than I should for my age 😉 But I’ve found that most people just fight for themselves without much strategy or team work.

You often end up with static situations where both sides are shooting at each other without much movement. 

 

In the army you would do fire and movement. So one fire team suppresses the enemy with fire while the other fire team moves into a better position. Then they would switch roles (simple scenario).

 

But how do you get players that might not know each other and most likely won’t have an army background to do co-ordinated attacks?

 

I’ve tried it with my son but he just thinks I am ‘over thinking this’. 

[DanBow]

I did the same thing with my daughter(14) when we played. It was only the 2 of us, so we covered each other but we made more forward progress and got closer to the objective than others.

 

I really enjoyed the team playing part of it and would love to find a team to join, build up skill levels and Dominate!!!!  lol

[Gunboat Diplomat]

I think that is a pretty standard feature of casual weekend skirmish games.  The mix of players from regulars to first timers and young kids means effective grouping is a matter of luck as much as anything else.  

 

You'd likely enjoy a milsim type event over a normal skirmish day as these are more tactical affairs.

 

 

[Shamal]

Yeah I can see what he means 🙂

I guess we have all watched the war films and seen how it should be done but that all goes out the window on game days when as soon as you are out of the safe zone all the plans and strategies you made go to pot and it's everyman for himself 😂

 

I personally play for enjoyment and the freedom to approach the objectives in my own crazy way and maybe get some hits along the way and then I go home happy.

 

I think that the last thing I want is somebody barking orders and getting uptight cause I'm not in the right place at the right time.(I would not have made a good soldier😂)

 

I've nothing against teams that want to train and home theirs skills. I guess skills equal kills🤔

 

Just not for me👍

 

Regards 

 

[ParHunter]

Don’t get me wrong. The last thing I would like is to have a Sargent Major shouting at me 😉 I had enough of that in my army days!

 

But it feels everyone is trying to pull a heavy weight on their own when it would be so much easier if they would team up and pull together.

[Sewdhull]

I have found that pairing is useful but it's tricky to find ppl that have similar playstyle casually. However if you shout up, there's always someone that wants to have a buddy and whether they want to lead or be led doesn't matter to me. You soon find out where there strengths lie and how to progress from there.

The more organised sites do better but it's been a while for me so I don't know what it's like now 

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

This annoyed the fuck out of me when I first played, then I adopted Shamal's attitude and enjoyed the game much more.  

 

In milsims/filmsims etc, you'll get a much higher standard of play, but not necessarily much squad work; that tends to come with teams.  I've played with a couple of teams that have rolled up the opposition all day long, and it's still been a good game. 

 

What milsims and the like do though is increase comms a lot.  That tends to get you into squad work territory, and squads will work within them.  Spot one and join in if you can.   

 

In airsoft, basic leadership and direction will often win.  Well lead fireteams are a miracle.  

 

Most games I play are filmsim and I use an LMG.  Mrs TPH acts as my rifleperson.  Obviously, we know how to communicate between each other!  We play as a team of two within a main team of however many.  We attach ourselves to players that we know have a clue as a squad.  Good game pretty much guaranteed.  

[Emergencychimps]

Trying to organise skirmishers at a skirmish is like trying to herd cats, 1 might go in the right direction but it's not guaranteed. 

 

You then become sergeant major "move up". Everyone has paid their money and they can do as they please etc. 

 

Personally I much prefer to be in an organised group. I'd prefer a few good stretegic firefights that blasting like a skirmisher all day. Finding players who like the games I do, the way I do, at the sites I attend, when I can attend them (not much at the moment) is basically impossible. 

 

I'd suggest trying a milsim (Stirling) or more organised game (such as a gunman filmsim). With Stirling id always recommend the themed games at catterick 1st, they are more of a thinking man's skirmish. 11:00am to 11:00pm Saturday then again on Sunday, 7:00am (might be 7:30am) to 11:00am, all with hourly objectives. You get squad, command net, specific tas6ks, an awesome site/rules, team work etc. Without the need to camp, be on the ground for 24 hours etc. If you go on your own/2 people/small group, you'll be put with other players to form a squad. The most important fact is, everyone going there wants a more organised type game, it's that mentality and the fact they want it enough to go, that makes it so different. 

 

Once comfortable with that, then a combat mission at the trees or catterick is awesome, but they are harder/require more commitment. 

 

Most local site "milsims" are skirmishes with ammo caps and maybe medic rules. Gunman filmsims can be a bit of a middle ground between that local milsim and a Stirling. 

 

Enjoy the games you attend for what they're advertised for, a skirmish is a blat fest, a hard routine milsim might not have a single firefight etc. 

 

[Impulse]

6 hours ago, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

Most games I play are filmsim and I use an LMG.  Mrs TPH acts as my rifleperson.  Obviously, we know how to communicate between each other!  We play as a team of two within a main team of however many.  We attach ourselves to players that we know have a clue as a squad.  Good game pretty much guaranteed.  

 

I think this is the best and easiest way to do it. I frequently just pair up with a friend as a sniper team and we can do some real damage with some basic communication and teamwork.

 

10 minutes ago, Emergencychimps said:

Enjoy the games you attend for what they're advertised for, a skirmish is a blat fest, a hard routine milsim might not have a single firefight etc. 

 

 

Also this. I tried a milsim and I barely shot at all. Once during the night where we were essentially set up as the fall guys (only team without night vision put to defend an objective against way more than us all with night vision) and then were set up the next day on what felt like a very scripted vehicle ambush. So scripted to the point where we had to do a loop and pass by again because taskforce managed to bungle the vehicle ambush that hard and needed a 2nd chance at it. Didn't really enjoy myself for the event, so I don't really do milsim. Don't really want to pay a bunch of money to be uncomfortable in a field getting shot by nightvision gang all night without any response because I can't afford to drop a couple thousand on fancy NVGs.

 

I much prefer a good filmsim game over a milsim and would much rather spend my money on such. Gunman Namsoft is a great example; go out, make the lives of the GIs difficult by doing my sneaky sniper thing while yelling taunts at them. Play as much or as little as I want to through the day and then head back to the safe zone to eat something and get a good night's sleep before doing the same the next day.

[Rogerborg]

14 hours ago, ParHunter said:

You often end up with static situations where both sides are shooting at each other without much movement. 

 

Be the change you want to see, and move.  I tend to alternate between sniping at the back, and pulling the MP5K for a Leeeeeroy Jennnnkins run when things bog down.

 

Exceptions exist, but airsoft "suppression" isn't all that at a typical woodland site.  Most people prefer shooting to moving so the sound of brrrting is pretty much constant. Folk often don't even know that they're being shot at unless they're behind hard cover and hearing the tappy-taps.  Even then, it doesn't have a literal-life-or-death deterrence effect, particularly as some folk are going to "not feel" their hits anyway.

 

The main reason to try and co-ordinate is because it's fun, and you can build a narrative around it. Much of what we're doing is telling ourselves stories.

[Fatboy40]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

Be the change you want to see, and move.

 

100% this, but in the short time I've been playing airsoft I've come to understand how sometime stepping up and being the Shouty Sergeant is necessary otherwise people around you are just rabbits in headlights throwing plastic balls at each other with no effect.

 

As a human being I try not to be an arsehole, not always succeeding, so I've learnt that in a skirmish being the Shouty Sergeant is best in short bursts and only a couple of times a day otherwise you will piss others off.

 

(Probably the most regular thing I do is saying to others to make sure they shout out where they spot enemy players as it helps everyone)

[Cannonfodder]

In my experience barking orders and generally acting like a wannabe sergeant major will usually result in said player being ignored and/or laughed at. Instead others are more likely to follow those who lead by example or make suggestions. After all, we've all paid the same and there's no ranks.

 

Don't get me wrong, if someone's idea is sound then I'll happily go along with it

 

3 hours ago, Impulse said:

Also this. I tried a milsim and I barely shot at all. Once during the night where we were essentially set up as the fall guys (only team without night vision put to defend an objective against way more than us all with night vision) and then were set up the next day on what felt like a very scripted vehicle ambush. So scripted to the point where we had to do a loop and pass by again because taskforce managed to bungle the vehicle ambush that hard and needed a 2nd chance at it. Didn't really enjoy myself for the event, so I don't really do milsim. Don't really want to pay a bunch of money to be uncomfortable in a field getting shot by nightvision gang all night without any response because I can't afford to drop a couple thousand on fancy NVGs.

This is the exact reason I've been hesitant about doing a milsim. I'm loath to pay good money just to larp as an npc for site regulars

[Lozart]

50 minutes ago, Fatboy40 said:

 

100% this, but in the short time I've been playing airsoft I've come to understand how sometime stepping up and being the Shouty Sergeant is necessary otherwise people around you are just rabbits in headlights throwing plastic balls at each other with no effect.

 

As a human being I try not to be an arsehole, not always succeeding, so I've learnt that in a skirmish being the Shouty Sergeant is best in short bursts and only a couple of times a day otherwise you will piss others off.

 

(Probably the most regular thing I do is saying to others to make sure they shout out where they spot enemy players as it helps everyone)

 

Being the Shouty Sergeant ONLY works if you are leading by example, not just barking orders from the back.

 

I've played with a group of friends I've made through airsoft that actually understand how to communicate and move as a cohesive unit and it makes SO much difference. It ends up being more fun purely through being effective in the game.

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Fatboy40 said:

sometime stepping up and being the Shouty Sergeant is necessary

 

I now find it "necessary" to invite Major Move-Up to lead by example.

[Tommikka]

17 hours ago, ParHunter said:

 

 

But how do you get players that might not know each other and most likely won’t have an army background to do co-ordinated attacks?

 

 

I’ve tried it with my son but he just thinks I am ‘over thinking this’. 

Getting others to join in and do so is difficult, but not impossible.

Calling out direction is likely to get you ignored 

But practice with your son, and then acting upon it can have an effect - those keen to do the same will join in, and then those who see some progress will tag along

 

At a standard day just play as you wish and see if others tag along 

At a more organised event, even if not a MilSim etc check in with any assigned faction leader, tell them what / how you’re interested in playing - some people just want a shoot out, others an organised push and others a focused mission 

At one major event, the faction we would play for traditionally lost overall.

One year the faction commander was a current US soldier posted over here.

He had two core plans:

 

Plan A - his wife co-oridinated a ‘command centre’ just inside the main entry point.  She had players stood outside asking respawning players what they wanted to do, and with the aid of maps and the current state of play advised on the direction to go for a good shoot out or for a mission objective, and ‘organised’ teams would be on a cascade network of radio channels

 

Plan B - If it started to go wrong he planned to play the Ride of the Valkyries on a bull horn and to walk around the game area.

Any players within earshot would join the growing group and attempt to plough through 

 

Sadly Plan A worked and the game was won.  I wanted to do plan B

 

 

 

Keep it simple, and not necessarily to the book.

On the more ‘extreme’ my buddy would try making Hollywood & documentary style calls and hand signals 

Those are fine if you regularly train together, are ex Army with similar experience (and doctrine generation) or are watching the same things, eg assigning colours to the front, back, left and right of a building enables consistency whichever direction you come from - but is meaningless to Fred & George who just turned up 

 

In a building for floors he would call one, two etc based on Hollywoods American first, second floor etc but in the UK it’s ground and first (sniper in window on one would have people looking up, and sniper in red one would mean nothing)

 

 

 

 

[Cannonfodder]

34 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

I now find it "necessary" to invite Major Move-Up to lead by example.

One thing I've noticed over the years is that the amount a player shouts at others to move forward is inversely proportional to how close to the front they are

[Emergencychimps]

1 hour ago, Cannonfodder said:

 

This is the exact reason I've been hesitant about doing a milsim. I'm loath to pay good money just to larp as an npc for site regulars

 

In my experience, people and teams generally get out of a milsim what they put in. 

 

If you attend and your admin is good, you're not monging around, shooting bits randomly cause you're bored etc and put some effort in, you won't just be an NPC for others entertainment and your effort will impact the event. But you need to be ready, available and asking for takings. Sometimes the most boring job (external security during a raid, qrf, manning an op, doing stag) can turn into the coolest parts of the weekend if you do it well. You repel their qrf, you rock up to a squad and save the day as qrf, you see and report in the vital bit of intel, you call stand to and repel the fob attack etc etc.

 

If you attend thinking you're owed a good event and it's up to the organiser to entertain you/structure events so you feel Gucci because you've paid a fee and travelled all that way, then you'll probably end up not enjoying it and feel like an NPC. And that is generally because you and your squad aren't doing stag, aren't staying switched on etc so that time the enemy catches you off guard you'll get rolled up and that could just end up being your main contact for the weekend. 

 

basically, if you and your squad are switched on, you can't just be an NPC because you will be ready, you will react to the contact etc. You won't be caught napping and off guard, shot in your sleeping bags or your squad rolled up in a contact because you have a stag on, you've maintained spacing and have the right formation etc. 

[Cannonfodder]

I guess it really depends on the site. I've heard too many stories of games being scripted to the point that the outcome is the same, no matter what happens in the game (see impulse's post about the vehicle ambush) or where players who are willing to put the effort in and make themselves available but are sidelined because they're not a part of a certain clique 

[OTH21]

Derailing slightly. Is there an upto date list of milsim event organisers other than Stirling / Filmsim. Looking for more events for 2024.

 

On the subject of fire teams, I've found at best you might be able to nudge other players into a direction you want, but anything like a coordinated section attack in a skirmish day with randoms is almost impossible. Like others have said, personally If I've paid to play, the last thing I want is having some trumped up ex-cadet shouting like a Colour Sgt. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by OTH21

[Impulse]

12 minutes ago, OTH21 said:

Derailing slightly. Is there an upto date list of milsim event organisers other than Stirling / Filmsim. Looking for more events for 2024.

 

These guys do milsim events to add to your list

https://www.defiantevents.co.uk

[Davet]

3 hours ago, Tommikka said:

 

In a building for floors he would call one, two etc based on Hollywoods American first, second floor etc but in the UK it’s ground and first (sniper in window on one would have people looking up, and sniper in red one would mean nothing)

 

 

 

 

Your pal’s actually correct doing it that way, although inadvertently by the sound of it - yes, we refer to ground, first, etc, floors in day-to-day life but, for target indication, it’s 1 for ground, 2 for first, etc, etc.

 

Windows/doors are then numbered left to right - one one being first window on ground floor, one two second window, two one first window first floor etc.

[Tommikka]

21 minutes ago, Davet said:

Your pal’s actually correct doing it that way, although inadvertently by the sound of it - yes, we refer to ground, first, etc, floors in day-to-day life but, for target indication, it’s 1 for ground, 2 for first, etc, etc.

 

Windows/doors are then numbered left to right - one one being first window on ground floor, one two second window, two one first window first floor etc.

‘Correct’ it may be, and perfectly valid to adopt as a team.

But to get the random Joe Bloggs who happens to be at the next tree or corner to know what you mean then ‘first floor’ would work for the man off the street, the Signals scaley and the Infantry dealer of death, whereas ‘floor one’ could be interpreted as ground or first floor depending on experience & knowledge 

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

There's usually not much teamwork at Spec Ops, so I either pair up with Dan, or one of the other regulars I know, who actually push the objective - and then provide them with spotting info / covering fire / try a suicidal rush to find the entrenched opponent.   That keeps me happy that I'm trying to do something useful*.

   
If there are no friends around I just often ask anybody wandering around spawn what they think is the best place to go... if they give a sensible answer I tag along with them, and provide covering fire or ask them to cover me as I advance (for the first move or two at least).

 

I've seen people try to organise bigger squads with some more strategic teamwork (beyond the initial rush, which is of course very important).   It usually doesn't last beyond the first sighting of a BB in mid-flight, sadly.

 

 

* Either that I or I go on a long solo flanking run so I can bag a couple of easy-ish kills, and to find any blind spots in the defence.

[Dan Robinson]

I also see if I can latch onto someone with actual experience in the forces - had a good run with a couple of ex army lads at the RIFT Battlesim - learnt a few things, even though my knees won't allow me to do them now LOL.

 

I still remember that game where @RostokMcSpoonsand I held one of the kill houses in Ping Ping city for most of a game racking up a silly amount of kills. Knowing the sight lines and sneaky points of a site is super important.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually just realised my first sentence could be read in several different ways 🥴.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Dan Robinson

[Fatboy40]

6 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

I now find it "necessary" to invite Major Move-Up to lead by example.

 

Sometimes you've got to be both 😕 

 

I think maybe my local site has been an influence on me with this, Ironsight Airsoft, which is a great mix of CQB and outdoors but with well balanced teams you can get horrible stalemates in the middle of the site. The only way to break them is to encourage people to make a bold move, I've been Major Move-Up sometimes (a horrible sight I expect as I'm not built for speed, I'm no Lighting McQueen), but like you said I try to lead by example (sometimes just being a stupid meat-shield can help the team push up a bit, walking back to respawn a little slower than usual once hit 😉).