US - Airsoft under threat?

[Enid_Puceflange]

I’ve seen a bit on the socials regarding the US govt wanting to start licensing Airsoft replicas

It appears congress tried to sneak this new ruling under the radar and it was spotted by some legal hot shot who brought it to light just a few days ago.

Looks like our American brethren have until the 12th to lodge enough protest to have this postponed for further discussions to try and work something out .

Seems that it will affect importing and costs, raising the retail prices quite dramatically

Just my jist of it

 

Canada just managed to fight something similar off, Australia weren’t so lucky

Whos next? ?

 

more info here

 

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Enid_Puceflange

[Guest]

Make no mistake, it will be us soon if this goes through

 

“First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.”

 

—Martin Niemöller

 

[Enid_Puceflange]

Ive got a .come mail address

Im gonna comment and sign, more numbers for them to help fight it can’t be bad for us?

[Enid_Puceflange]

Having read their Govt proposals, no wonder they are shitting a brick

Have a look at some of their proposals

A ban on imports

Rifs manufactured in either a transparent plastic or non real looking exteriors

 

[Lozart]

So basically the US version of the VCRA then.

[Tackle]

Wonder what was the trigger for this proposal ?. 

I suspect that they've had a glut of crimes involving Airsoft replicas, or worse a wave of officer involved shootings where rifs were present ? 

[Lozart]

2 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Wonder what was the trigger for this proposal ?. 

I suspect that they've had a glut of crimes involving Airsoft replicas, or worse a wave of officer involved shootings where rifs were present ? 

 

Given the availability of firearms, I'd guess the latter.

[Emergencychimps]

13 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Wonder what was the trigger for this proposal ?. 

I suspect that they've had a glut of crimes involving Airsoft replicas, or worse a wave of officer involved shootings where rifs were present ? 

 or it's part of the ongoing cultre war that seems to be happening in the US, left wing liberals vs right wing conservatives.

 

Airsoft is seen as and being promoted as a gateway into firearm ownership in the US, it's also seen as a valuable training tool by some along with range drills and target practice. This is most likely to be one side trying to stem and direct future gun owners into other hobbies, interests, views etc to reduce support so that they can eventually gun reform/legislation can take place. 

 

Legislation varies from state to state and some states already have legislation in place regarding having an orange tip on RIFs(not sure if they call them RIFs). 

 

 

[Impulse]

Well, also election season is coming up in the not too distant future.

[Dan Robinson]

The irony of making replicas harder to buy and use than the real thing. 

[EDcase]

The comment form allows you to change the country so I signed it too. (Copy/Paste the text)

We have to try and stop this because we'll be next...

[novioman]

They would have to make all manufacturers add a proper serial number then. I see it’s to late to add your comments as the deadline was June 6th.

Edited June 8, 2023 by novioman

[Skullchewer]

1 hour ago, Dan Robinson said:

The irony of making replicas harder to buy and use than the real thing. 

Fucking THIS. 

 

[Leo Greer]

Alright y’all. I’m a born and raised American, so here’s my perspective. Other Americans would probably disagree with me here, but I’m a decent representative of the airsoft-playing  demographic.

 

In recent times, there have NOT been a lot of police deaths related to airsoft replicas. The danger is when misguided and deluded people (often teenagers), brandish airsoft guns as weapons. When a teenager has what appears to be a fully loaded AR-15 and starts coming towards the cops brandishing the weapon, they have no choice but to shoot. If they don’t, the individual could be a prospective neighborhood/school shooter.

 

I.E. People are literally being shot for pretending airsoft replicas are real guns, and refusing to put them down when asked by the cops—there’s plenty of footage. In one recent example, a teen called 911 and asked for police help at his home because of domestic violence. The teen then answered the door with an airsoft M4 with the mag in and walked out at the cops with the gun pointed at them. There was no evidence of domestic violence.

 

Everyone will have a different perspective on gun laws, but in America, guns laws primarily serve to remove the rights or privileges of law abiding citizens. Why on earth would the criminal obey gun laws? There are more guns in America than people—any criminal can get his hands on a gun through a private sale.

 

In America, and in Texas in particular, concealed carry firearms (and open carry) is legal. A criminal or shooter’s WORST fear is not the cops catching him. It’s that the old lady in the diner or the kid’s baseball coach will pull out a concealed 9mm and shoot them from ten feet. This has happened repeatedly. School shootings are popular in part because staff are not allowed to carry weapons, as opposed to public places where shooters can be taken down by anyone.

 

All that to say, the attempted restrictions/bans on airsoft weapons are likely attempts to remove freedoms rather than based in actual fact.

 

Real weapons can be purchased in private or under the table sales by both legal and illegal owners extremely easily. Weapons are bought and sold at garage sales and over forums.

 

Restricting sale and ownership of replicas and real weapons only harms and hinders legal buyers and owners because those with malicious intent will simply buy illegally.

[Gunboat Diplomat]

3 hours ago, Lozart said:

So basically the US version of the VCRA then.

 

The question is, how long until our nodding-dog political peers follow suit and update VCRA to mandate that all RIFs must now be transparent, pink or shaped like a banana irrespective of your UKARA status.

 

Would be a very easy and lazy win in this climate of being tough-on-crime-whilst not-actually-being-tough-on-crime.

[Lozart]

1 hour ago, Leo Greer said:

Alright y’all. I’m a born and raised American, so here’s my perspective. Other Americans would probably disagree with me here, but I’m a decent representative of the airsoft-playing  demographic.

 

In recent times, there have NOT been a lot of police deaths related to airsoft replicas. The danger is when misguided and deluded people (often teenagers), brandish airsoft guns as weapons. When a teenager has what appears to be a fully loaded AR-15 and starts coming towards the cops brandishing the weapon, they have no choice but to shoot. If they don’t, the individual could be a prospective neighborhood/school shooter.

 

I.E. People are literally being shot for pretending airsoft replicas are real guns, and refusing to put them down when asked by the cops—there’s plenty of footage. In one recent example, a teen called 911 and asked for police help at his home because of domestic violence. The teen then answered the door with an airsoft M4 with the mag in and walked out at the cops with the gun pointed at them. There was no evidence of domestic violence.

 

Everyone will have a different perspective on gun laws, but in America, guns laws primarily serve to remove the rights or privileges of law abiding citizens. Why on earth would the criminal obey gun laws? There are more guns in America than people—any criminal can get his hands on a gun through a private sale.

 

In America, and in Texas in particular, concealed carry firearms (and open carry) is legal. A criminal or shooter’s WORST fear is not the cops catching him. It’s that the old lady in the diner or the kid’s baseball coach will pull out a concealed 9mm and shoot them from ten feet. This has happened repeatedly. School shootings are popular in part because staff are not allowed to carry weapons, as opposed to public places where shooters can be taken down by anyone.

 

All that to say, the attempted restrictions/bans on airsoft weapons are likely attempts to remove freedoms rather than based in actual fact.

 

Real weapons can be purchased in private or under the table sales by both legal and illegal owners extremely easily. Weapons are bought and sold at garage sales and over forums.

 

Restricting sale and ownership of replicas and real weapons only harms and hinders legal buyers and owners because those with malicious intent will simply buy illegally.

 

The VAST majority of guns used by criminals come from theft of legally owned weapons. If there are less legally owned guns there will be less illegally owned guns.

 

As for the "good guy with a gun" theory, it's been disproved plenty of times. The "2.5 million a year" figure has no actual evidence to back it up.

[Madhouse]

3 minutes ago, Gunboat Diplomat said:

The question is, how long until our nodding-dog political peers follow suit and update VCRA to mandate that all RIFs must now be transparent, pink or shaped like a banana irrespective of your UKARA status.

 

The wording posted above states one of the markings from 1272.3, one of those is an orange muzzle which is pretty much what they have now right? It appears that the US could do worse than adopting our VCRA rather than anything the other way around.

 

What I can't work out is what the problem is that this is trying to solve?

 

If they're hell-bent on registering stuff then surely they're better off registering all the actual guns first / at the same time? 

 

I don't recall ever seeing a news story that said 'mass shooting stopped by 76-year old Grandma with a Smith & Wesson', they all end with either suicide or shot by police. In fact according to this article a whopping 3% of active attacks were stopped by a civilian over 21 years, that's 13 in real terms - or to put it another way, 0.62 per year.

 

Let's face it, if 'MoRe GuNz' was the answer then America would be the safest place on the planet, but it seems that in reality that's not the case.

[Leo Greer]

3 hours ago, Lozart said:

 

The VAST majority of guns used by criminals come from theft of legally owned weapons. If there are less legally owned guns there will be less illegally owned guns.

 

As for the "good guy with a gun" theory, it's been disproved plenty of times. The "2.5 million a year" figure has no actual evidence to back it up.

Of course. But as long as there are guns to be owned, there will be those owned illegally. At this point it’s impossible to remove all firearms from the equation.

 

2 hours ago, Madhouse said:

I don't recall ever seeing a news story that said 'mass shooting stopped by 76-year old Grandma with a Smith & Wesson', they all end with either suicide or shot by police. In fact according to this article a whopping 3% of active attacks were stopped by a civilian over 21 years, that's 13 in real terms - or to put it another way, 0.62 per year.

 

Let's face it, if 'MoRe GuNz' was the answer then America would be the safest place on the planet, but it seems that in reality that's not the case.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-church-shooting-man-take-out-gunman-west-freeway-church

 

I wasn’t trying to quote actual attacks, just to give examples.

 

More guns are not the answer. That’s not what I said. What I said was that adding regulations to firearm ownership that already exists is hurting legal owners far more than illegal, which defeats the point of regulation.

 

In any case, I also spoke about the presence of firearms being preventative. What % of attacks take place in schools specifically? Why not go shoot up a police station instead?

 

Guns are not the problem or the solution. They’re an equalizer that allows anyone to take a life. The bad guys have guns. The good guys should have them too.

[Colin Allen]

3 minutes ago, Leo Greer said:

Guns are not the problem or the solution. They’re an equalizer that allows anyone to take a life. The bad guys have guns. The good guys should have them too.

Most of the developed world moved way beyond that incredibly simplistic view a long time ago.  Unfortunately, I suspect that there are so many guns in circulation in the USA that you are truly fucked.  You have created an armed, aggressive and fearful society with appallingly poor education and mental health provision, resulting in a situation where a reasonably large number of schoolchildren are going to be killed in mass shootings every year.  But hey, that's a price worth paying for Billy Bob to own his penis extension.

[Leo Greer]

35 minutes ago, Colin Allen said:

Most of the developed world moved way beyond that incredibly simplistic view a long time ago.  Unfortunately, I suspect that there are so many guns in circulation in the USA that you are truly fucked.  You have created an armed, aggressive and fearful society with appallingly poor education and mental health provision, resulting in a situation where a reasonably large number of schoolchildren are going to be killed in mass shootings every year.  But hey, that's a price worth paying for Billy Bob to own his penis extension.

Agressive and fearful society with terrible mental health care? For sure. A horrible education system? Absolutely. However just stating that our system is well and truly messed up doesn’t do much for us is ordinary Joes. The question is, what should ordinary people do to combat both the symptoms of the problem, and the roots.

 

I’m curious to hear why you think my view is simplistic.

[Colin Allen]

1 hour ago, Leo Greer said:

Agressive and fearful society with terrible mental health care? For sure. A horrible education system? Absolutely. However just stating that our system is well and truly messed up doesn’t do much for us is ordinary Joes. The question is, what should ordinary people do to combat both the symptoms of the problem, and the roots.

 

I’m curious to hear why you think my view is simplistic.

The part that I highlighted is incredibly simplistic; it is the classic argument that guns are not the problem and that "an armed society is a safe society".

Guns may not be the whole of the problem but they are a very large part of it; having an armed society hasn't worked out particularly well for you, has it?  Has it created a safer society?

I don't think that there is anything that ordinary Joes like you can do; the situation has reached the point where you just have to accept that dead schoolchildren are the price you have to pay for an obsession with owning guns and a devotion to every word, comma, full stop etc of an outdated constitution that prevents people from accepting that the conditional clause of the second amendment is now obsolete, thus voiding the right to keep and bear arms.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Colin Allen

[RostokMcSpoons]

2 hours ago, Leo Greer said:

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-church-shooting-man-take-out-gunman-west-freeway-church

 

 

Have you heard the saying "it's the exception that proves the rule".   For a long time I really didn't understand the logic of that saying, but I think I do now.  You've just given us an example.. you think armed Good Guys will stop the Bad Guy, but you're linking an article from 2019.  It just doesn't happen enough, they're exceptions.

 

I don't think widening gun ownership to the point everyone is carrying is the way to go.  The idea of all those untrained itchy trigger fingers, all those guns owned by double-digit IQ idiots, all those angry people with hot tempers... Too likely to get shot by accident or anger.  Scary.

[Lozart]

3 hours ago, Leo Greer said:

Agressive and fearful society with terrible mental health care? For sure. A horrible education system? Absolutely. However just stating that our system is well and truly messed up doesn’t do much for us is ordinary Joes. The question is, what should ordinary people do to combat both the symptoms of the problem, and the roots.

 

 

Far too much blame is laid at the feet of "mental health" when it comes to the big headline grabbers like mass shootings. Mental health is more of an issue in that something around 60% of gun deaths in the USA are suicides. Not because there are more suicidal people in the US but because they have such ready access to a very effective means of succeeding. A very high percentage of first suicide attempts in this country that fail end up with the person feeling completely differently within hours of the attempt, not an option with firearms.

 

As for the situation as a whole? That goes beyond the actual guns and is entrenched in the fibre of US society, particularly the vocal 2A crowd (from both sides of the political spectrum). My personal opinion is that the reliance on the "keep and bear arms" part of the 2nd Amendment is fine and well, but that it's taken WAY out of context and the "well regulated militia" bit gets glossed over. Everyone and their dog seems to want to interpret the constitution to suit their own agenda and hold that everything written in it is cast in stone with no consideration for the fact that modern society is (and should be) COMPLETELY different to the world that the founding fathers lived in. In the UK, legislation changes to reflect the times and yet the constitution is treated as if it's some immutable gospel, despite the fact that the very thing that they're arguing over IS A CHANGE. It's an AMENDMENT. It CAN be changed if it's needed!

[mightyjebus]

see this has turned into a American gun debate.

 

He's some wood for the fire:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

this is a paragraph from the 2nd amendment. Basically it means you can't stop people having guns as they may be needed to fight foreign or domestic enemys. However the average American can no longer go up against a corrupt American government as they have pistols and rifles against tanks, nukes, steath fighters, aircraft carriers and probably backwards engineered alien blasters for all I know.

No American politician is going to try to remove the 2nd amendment as that would be political suicide and fail if tried however what you can do, is over time take small chips from the amendment for brownie points and votes so you end up in the situation where the people can still have arms, just not arms that can overthrow a corrupt state or defeat an invading army.

 

Why is American airsoft on the radar, well probably because they are gun shaped and count as another chip. You see, even if it's successfully passed, you can still have an airsoft gun. Just not the one you wanted.

 

Should us Brits be concerned? well probably. Gun crime in the UK fell by 14% last year from the previous year. Handguns made up 40% of the 5600 cases last year. In 2nd place was imitation firearms coming in at about 25%. Doing simple politicians maths, remove the imitation firearms and that would remove 1400 serious crimes a year.

 

Our gun laws are stupid and confusing and probably for good reason. It would give someone with a political agenda good reason to throw them all out the window and start from scratch however historically every time the UK updates it's gun laws it all goes a bit horribly wrong. Let's hope the Yanks generate enough resistance to stop the change or we could find a hungry politician looking over our shoulder to see what we are doing.

[novioman]

Imitation firearms would also have to include many airguns, blank firers etc, so some sought of license possibly, that would involve millions of guns, a ban, possibly, but they would have to pay compensation, that would be billions. Who would run the license system, the police ? They are struggling in many forces to do renewals and grants for FAC’s and SGC’s, some people waiting a year for renewals.
The government did a ban/ or put it on licence with air cartridge guns, that backfired badly 60,000- 80,000 went underground according to government figures. 
If Labour becomes the government next year than I expect more aggro for legal gun ownership, but when it comes to airsoft, airgun replicas your looking at huge volumes of guns & people.