Has anyone noticed Covid spikes after gatherings

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, EDcase said:

No matter how you quantify them, trends are clear given the same metrics

 

It matters how you contextualise them, because you only find the cases that you test for.  It's apples to apples, but it depends how deeply you rummage around in the sack to count them.

 

We have ramped testing through the roof - and I do mean through, as the ONS daily figures show us doing more tests than we have capacity, which is... rather remarkable.

 

Our case rate has risen even more sharply, indicating a higher positive test rate. That's bad.

 

But the rise in admissions seems to have plateaued, and is lower than in September and November.  That's good.

 

Because of shorter stays, the rise in admissions isn't leading to a rise in those taking up beds. That's better.

 

And mechanical ventilation (see above) and deaths are falling.  That's great.

 

I don't see much in these figures to justify violent dehumanising rhetoric.  Describing our fellow citizens as diseased rodents is part of a trend too, and I don't much like where that line ends up.

 

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

 

 

[hitmanNo2]

18 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

I don't see much in these figures to justify violent dehumanising rhetoric.  Describing our fellow citizens as diseased rodents is part of a trend too, and I don't much like where that line ends up.

Yeah.  Regardless of where you stand on vaccinations, it's rather terrifying this is all that it's taken to divide populations and turn people against each other.  Rather disgusting really.

 

Sure, you can say it's dumb or selfish or whatever for eligible people to turn down vaccinations that statistically are doing a lot of good but some of the vitriol that is coming out from certain people is borderline sociopathic.

[Cannonfodder]

When the anti maskers/vaxxers compare their choices to the murder of 6 million people I'll give them the respect they deserve 

[Rogerborg]

11 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

When the anti maskers/vaxxers compare their choices to the murder of 6 million people I'll give them the respect they deserve 

 

Is it fair to collectivise the views of all mask-sceptical and vaccine-hesitant people as being reflected by a loony-tunes lizard-people Q site?

[MAX DICKER]

Personally, I don't believe the dangers of covid have ever been enough to justify all the draconian measures and curbs on liberty that we have seen, and we have been comparatively lucky in Britain. Frankly, what's more frightening to me is how quickly our freedoms can be taken away by our elected public servants.

 

I think people who are more afraid of covid than the government are deluded.

[SBoardley]

2 hours ago, MAX DICKER said:

Personally, I don't believe the dangers of covid have ever been enough to justify all the draconian measures and curbs on liberty that we have seen, and we have been comparatively lucky in Britain. 

So you don’t believe it…..but we’ve been lucky? Maybe that’s because we’ve had draconian lockdown measures, used masks AND had one of the most successful vaccination programs in the world….oh and don’t forget the brave NHS workers who worked tirelessly, even more so for the last 2years, and died on the frontline try to save our old and infirm?

shut up you nobber. (Apologies)

Edited December 24, 2021 by SBoardley
Meds cut in now..!

[MAX DICKER]

7 minutes ago, SBoardley said:

So you don’t believe it…..but we’ve been lucky? Maybe that’s because we’ve had draconian lockdown measures, used masks AND had one of the most successful vaccination programs in the world….oh and don’t forget the brave NHS workers who worked tirelessly, even more so for the last 2years, and died on the frontline try to save our old and infirm?

shut up you nobber. 

 

To clarify, I meant we've been lucky compared to other countries that have suffered worse government stamp downs on freedoms.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I agree that mortality rate from covid can be brought down with extreme measures. For example; a full shut down of the country with martial law enforced lockdown. Mandatory vaccinations for everyone etc....

 

Is this a world you'd like to live in? Or maybe you're comfortable with the Mandatory vaccinations but not the martial law?

 

For me, personally, I believe everyone should be able to choose their own response. If you want a vaccine, go for it. If you want to go out in public wearing ppe, that's fine. If you want to lock yourself in your home for the rest of your life for fear of catching the sniffles, knock yourself out.

 

Freedom isn't free. And the only things that will survive the heat death of the universe are "temporary government powers".

 

[SBoardley]

10 minutes ago, MAX DICKER said:

 

To clarify, I meant we've been lucky compared to other countries that have suffered worse government stamp downs on freedoms.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I agree that mortality rate from covid can be brought down with extreme measures. For example; a full shut down of the country with martial law enforced lockdown. Mandatory vaccinations for everyone etc....

 

Is this a world you'd like to live in? Or maybe you're comfortable with the Mandatory vaccinations but not the martial law?

 

For me, personally, I believe everyone should be able to choose their own response. If you want a vaccine, go for it. If you want to go out in public wearing ppe, that's fine. If you want to lock yourself in your home for the rest of your life for fear of catching the sniffles, knock yourself out.

 

Freedom isn't free. And the only things that will survive the heat death of the universe are "temporary government powers".

 

Last time I looked, vaccinating isn’t mandatory; maybe that’s why this thing isn’t going away. 
on a personal note, I’m a stonemason, most of my work is outside. I don’t get the sniffles, can’t remember the last time I had the flu either. I’ve had my vaccinations because if I was to catch this and pass it on to my elderly relatives, I would never forgive myself.  Remember, these vaccinations aren’t just to protect you; they are to protect Everyone. 

[Rogerborg]

36 minutes ago, SBoardley said:

Last time I looked, vaccinating isn’t mandatory; maybe that’s why this thing isn’t going away. 

 

It's not going away even with complete vaccination.  If it were, it wouldn't exist in Israel or Gibraltar.

 

And given the HSA report today that protection from the mRNA boosters wanes after just 10 weeks, I'm becoming less convinced that "vaccine" is the correct term.  Temporary prophylactic might be closer.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I am not saying that the current mRNA jabs aren't working. I'm saying that they work as well as they work, and no better.  They're not a panacea, and it seems clear that they need to be updated to target more recent variants.

 

Given that omicron is turning out to be milder (as we'd expect), it's not unreasonable to ask: how many more doses, administered how frequently, and for how long?  In the context that we're never going to have zero SARS-COV-2. It's never going away.

 

 

36 minutes ago, SBoardley said:

I’ve had my vaccinations because if I was to catch this and pass it on to my elderly relatives, I would never forgive myself.  Remember, these vaccinations aren’t just to protect you; they are to protect Everyone. 

 

They do provide some protection against infection and transmission, but much less than we'd hoped.  And they've never claimed otherwise: all the trials only looked at protection from serious illness or death for the subject, not transmission (and I can't think how they could have done so).

 

On masks and preventing transmission, the only large scale community study done is the Bangladesh one.

 

The headline: Masks work.

 

The details: unlimited amount of free, disposable, surgical-grade masks, in conjunction with a campaign to wear them and instructions on how to use them properly, reduced community infection by an amount just barely on the cusp of statistical significance (96 fewer cases out of a sample size of 106,201, p = 0.043).  Cloth masks, even with the same campaign and instructions, did not (11 fewer cases out of 54,122).

 

https://www.poverty-action.org/sites/default/files/publications/Mask_RCT____Symptomatic_Seropositivity_083121.pdf

 

Cato Institute also says no on cloth masks.

 

https://www.cato.org/working-paper/evidence-community-cloth-face-masking-limit-spread-sars-cov-2-critical-review

 

Am I against masks?  Not as such.  It seems common-sensical that they would serve a "nudge" purpose to remind us that there is still a hazardous virus going around - although the Bangladesh evidence doesn't even support that.

 

What I'm against is people getting nudged to the point of fury at the absence of them, given the thinnest of evidence that even the best types actually have any benefit in the community.

[RostokMcSpoons]

1 hour ago, MAX DICKER said:

For me, personally, I believe everyone should be able to choose their own response. If you want a vaccine, go for it. If you want to go out in public wearing ppe, that's fine. If you want to lock yourself in your home for the rest of your life for fear of catching the sniffles, knock yourself out.

 

 

Yeah, but it's not 'the sniffles' is it 😠
At worst, it kills people. 

 

Imagine if Al-Qaida was killing 150 people per day (last figure I've seen for daily COVID deaths in the UK) and people sat around saying "I don't want anything done to stop it", perhaps even more pertinently "I won't do anything to stop, even though I could help".    How much respect would you have for those people?

Maybe you've not lost anyone close to you so let's make it more relatable.  

 

I've got friends I play football with who caught it before their jabs, and they could still hear the scar tissue in their lungs crackle months afterwards.

I had it, and even with the harshest edges of it knocked off by my two jabs, it was a pretty crappy week.  That's not the worst of it for me though.
I've lost a big percentage of my senses of taste and smell.  Maybe permanently.   Same for my wife and daughter.

 

Losing your ability to fully enjoy steaks, curries, beer, wine and all the other good things that usually make life enjoyable - that's really shit.   I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

When a normally delicious curry becomes an exercise in swallowing a load of pencil erasers in a tasteless liquid, and you wash it down with a beer that might as well be water, you will not be a happy bunny, guaranteed.

This is just an example as the senses thing is obviously towards at the 'best case' /  'inconvenient' end of the spectrum of outcomes. 

 

If you're happy for others to suffer because of 'personal freedoms', then... words fail me. 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

The details: unlimited amount of free, disposable, surgical-grade masks, in conjunction with a campaign to wear them and instructions on how to use them properly, reduced community infection by an amount just barely on the cusp of statistical significance (96 fewer cases out of a sample size of 106,201, p = 0.043).  Cloth masks, even with the same campaign and instructions, did not (11 fewer cases out of 54,122).

 

https://www.poverty-action.org/sites/default/files/publications/Mask_RCT____Symptomatic_Seropositivity_083121.pdf

 

 

 

Rebuttal to your one study, a meta-study published in the British Medical Journal:
https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068302

 

"Results from more than 30 studies from around the world were analysed in detail, showing a statistically significant 53% reduction in the incidence of Covid with mask wearing"

 

 

I absolutely don't want to get into an argument over this, I don't suppose any of us will change our mindsets (for better, or for worse).

 

Also with the Omicron variant the whole battlefield is shifting beneath our feet, the scientists are unsure of the longer-term outcomes, maybe we'll all end up catching an essentially harmless COVID that grants herd-immunity in the future.   That's probably ridiculously wishful-thinking, but there's certainly a possibility the way we approach the disease will change.  It may just be so infectious that we can't dodge it, masks or not.   

Edited December 24, 2021 by RostokMcSpoons

[Rogerborg]

9 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

If you're happy for others to suffer because of 'personal freedoms', then... words fail me. 

 

With respect, I have to note that two doses didn't protect you from being sick and symptomatic, so demonstrably can't prevent infection and transmission.

 

Do I think people should be vaccinated at this point?  Yes, I do.  I even agree with Tony Blair (on this point only) that it's idiotic not to be.

 

But do I blame the unvaccinated for the ongoing spread?  No, not really, they're mostly harming themselves at this point.

 

Given the dwindling numbers of unvaccinated versus the rising numbers of cases, it becomes harder to argue that this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated, let alone because of them.

 

Stupid people, yes, not plague rats. At the risk of broken drumming, who are the Gibraltarians blaming for cancelling Christmas?

 

It's perfectly understandable to want to blame a human agency for harming you, even when the damage is being done by something with no ill intent that's barely even a lifeform.  And pre-coofs, I was always the guy in the office shouting at plague rats stupid people bringing their coughs and sniffles in with them.  I haven't changed that opinion one iota - symptomatic people need to learn to bloody well isolate themselves, regardless of what they have or think they have.

 

However, I prefer to reserve my real ire for the people who ordered, funded, and carried out the gain of function research in Wuhan.

[Tackle]

To everyone who cites civil liberties & freedoms, & the alleged attempts by government to remove those said freedoms (for the greater good of the many), what's your opinion on conscription, in particular in wartime 🤔

 

For everyone screaming about their freedoms, remember without government taking decisive action in 1939, essentially breaking families up, many never to be reunited again, was necessary to ensure even the most basic rights & freedoms. 

Kinda puts the mild restrictions we face today in to perspective, those that disagree should all get together & give each other a big unmasked hug 😏

[RostokMcSpoons]

Ah, sorry Roger if I didn't make myself clear, it's being anti-mask as well as anti-vax that I have an issue with.
I appreciate your point regarding the vaccines is fair and valid especially given the new strain breaking through the immunity. 

For the previous strains we knew it was never 100% but still demonstrably doing a good job in reducing infections.  

If everyone in the UK had got their jabs done, it wouldn't have stopped Omicron from appearing - that's a failure of the SA govt and the international community.

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

Ah, sorry Roger if I didn't make myself clear, it's being anti-mask as well as anti-vax that I have an issue with.

 

I'm the other way around.  Even with waning efficacy of the current vaccines versus omicron and beyond, it seems clear that they're continuing to offer protection.  Although the HSA (and BioNTech) are implying that we're looking at re-doses every 90 days or so, which comes with a moral hazard[*].

 

Masks, I haven't found any compelling evidence for community efficacy (as opposed to careful use in clinical settings).  I mean, "it's just common sense", but my common observation is that many-to-most are being worn performatively rather than diligently.

 

For context, I bought and used a box of FFP3 respirators in early March 2020, "responsibly stockpiling" before the panic buying started.  I have no problems with measures that work, my issue (as with chrono!) is performing ritual safety theatre without any real benefit.

 

That's an argument in favour of better mask wearing, but it's probably a futile one, given that the same talking heads exhorting us to wear them generally don't even bother when they think they're off camera.

 

 

2 hours ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

If everyone in the UK had got their jabs done, it wouldn't have stopped Omicron from appearing - that's a failure of the SA govt and the international community.

 

Coronaviruses mutate rapidly, that's why they're so successful and tenacious.  We've never had a vaccine - or persistent herd immunity - for the common cold, as the several coronaviruses that cause those symptoms keep tweaking themselves just enough to escape immunity.

 

SARS-COV-2 is likely to do the same, vaccines or not, and the significant difference between 1 and 2 is asymptotic transmission.  That means variants are likely to spread because they'll already be out of the country before they're recognised as existing, or novel, let alone been sequenced and having a specific test created.

 

[*] Out of interest, what's your thoughts on the WHO's position that richer countries should be sending doses to poorer countries rather than engaging in universal booster campaigns?  If it was an either/or, would you prefer to get your third or fourth, versus a rural South African community nurse getting her first or second?

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/who-head-tedros-adhanom-ghebreyesus-admonishes-countries-with-blanket-booster-programs/vi-AAS4mkw

 

[Cannonfodder]

All the data shows that vaccines work to reduce the risk of infection and transmission of the virus. Does it give 100% protection? No but it significantly reduces the chance of infection and if you do get infected the chances of being hospitalised are far lower. 

 

All I'm hearing from the anti vaxx crowd is that it's a attack on their freedoms and other such nonsense. Nobody is being descriminated against or rounded up and its worth remembering that your rights end when your actions affect others.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Cannonfodder

[AirSniper]

 

Some things that are grossly overlooked with Omicron.

 

Sure it was South Africa that thisd appeared in, however, the Chinese community in Africa is numbering 20 million and most are regulars in travelling between the major cities that were responsible for the initial outbreak of Wuhan Flu which the CCP objected to because they are over sensitive about and that the WHO obliged and gave it a name that hid the origin...

This SA variant was like all these world pandemics and like the annual flu outbreaks, came from the same place as all pandemics originate, China.

The main reason being that their glitzy cities, travel less than 20 miles out of a major city and you have stepped back in time to a period that is more like the early years of serfdom in the UK, peasant farmers living with their livestock in horrendous conditions and easy transmission of viruses that break the zoonotic barrier. 

China pushes out an image of a modern society when nearly half of the people in china are still living in a level of poverty that makes their peasant farmers earn less than an illegal miner does in a day in South Africa.

 

Also note that in the last 10 years, China has been gearing up for war, who with, I D K but they are amassing tech that they never had 10 years ago, so like a bunch of kids are itching to try their toys out that were intellectual property of the west.

I am not about to venture down the growing body of evidence that Wuhan Flu aka COVID was a leaked bio-weeapon that the CCP were working on... I am just waiting fore that fact bubble to burst. Evidence of this research was discovered but quickly covered up and people disappeared. 

A couple of youtubers who spent a combined 20 years living in and have Chinese wives, commented on a number of things given their network of people that they are still in contact with, have better intelligence than the USA's NSA and what the Five Eyes collaboration brings to the table.

So for my end here, Omicron variant of Wuhan Flu came from the same place the original came from and weas trucked in via an executives or their family or family members coming over to stay with relatives escaping the outbreaks that keep on happening in China but news of is suppressed and the WHO has its woll pulled again because Tredos is a bought and paid shill and member of the CCP, evidence was presented to that fact as were tow other members of the WHO board sitting on this COVID committee in the WHO.

This is no conspiracy as all the evidence has surfaced and been presented by many people who have picked up on these investigators having direct links to the Wuhan research lab, previous work for the CCP... so its to me is just a cover up of another outbreak they worked so hard to cover Wuhan flu up that they missed evidence that was leaked by people and the discovery by the Chinese Doctor that got admonished for "Disrupting social harmony" was arrested and made to sign a retraction...  

 

So remember to look up in future, how many Chinese citizens and if that country is part of the belt and road initatives, then they will have a huge chinese population like Africa has over 20 million chinese there at any given moment... so its not hard to work out that the latest variant may have come out of Africa but it was trucked in from the usual suspect aka China.

Food for thought.

[Cannonfodder]

Careful, your tin foil hat is slipping

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

Jesus wept...  and on his birthday too.  

 

 

[Cannonfodder]

Got any sources for that pile of bollocks? 

[colinjallen]

8 hours ago, AirSniper said:

 

Some things that are grossly overlooked with Omicron.

 

Sure it was South Africa that thisd appeared in, however, the Chinese community in Africa is numbering 20 million and most are regulars in travelling between the major cities that were responsible for the initial outbreak of Wuhan Flu which the CCP objected to because they are over sensitive about and that the WHO obliged and gave it a name that hid the origin...

This SA variant was like all these world pandemics and like the annual flu outbreaks, came from the same place as all pandemics originate, China.

The main reason being that their glitzy cities, travel less than 20 miles out of a major city and you have stepped back in time to a period that is more like the early years of serfdom in the UK, peasant farmers living with their livestock in horrendous conditions and easy transmission of viruses that break the zoonotic barrier. 

China pushes out an image of a modern society when nearly half of the people in china are still living in a level of poverty that makes their peasant farmers earn less than an illegal miner does in a day in South Africa.

 

Also note that in the last 10 years, China has been gearing up for war, who with, I D K but they are amassing tech that they never had 10 years ago, so like a bunch of kids are itching to try their toys out that were intellectual property of the west.

I am not about to venture down the growing body of evidence that Wuhan Flu aka COVID was a leaked bio-weeapon that the CCP were working on... I am just waiting fore that fact bubble to burst. Evidence of this research was discovered but quickly covered up and people disappeared. 

A couple of youtubers who spent a combined 20 years living in and have Chinese wives, commented on a number of things given their network of people that they are still in contact with, have better intelligence than the USA's NSA and what the Five Eyes collaboration brings to the table.

So for my end here, Omicron variant of Wuhan Flu came from the same place the original came from and weas trucked in via an executives or their family or family members coming over to stay with relatives escaping the outbreaks that keep on happening in China but news of is suppressed and the WHO has its woll pulled again because Tredos is a bought and paid shill and member of the CCP, evidence was presented to that fact as were tow other members of the WHO board sitting on this COVID committee in the WHO.

This is no conspiracy as all the evidence has surfaced and been presented by many people who have picked up on these investigators having direct links to the Wuhan research lab, previous work for the CCP... so its to me is just a cover up of another outbreak they worked so hard to cover Wuhan flu up that they missed evidence that was leaked by people and the discovery by the Chinese Doctor that got admonished for "Disrupting social harmony" was arrested and made to sign a retraction...  

 

So remember to look up in future, how many Chinese citizens and if that country is part of the belt and road initatives, then they will have a huge chinese population like Africa has over 20 million chinese there at any given moment... so its not hard to work out that the latest variant may have come out of Africa but it was trucked in from the usual suspect aka China.

Food for thought.

Wow!  You would probably do well to lay off whatever you are on; it is seriously affecting your ability to discriminate between conspiracy theories and reality.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, colinjallen said:

Wow!  You would probably do well to lay off whatever you are on; it is seriously affecting your ability to discriminate between conspiracy theories and reality.

But surely all reality IS  a conspiracy theory? 🤣🤣🤣

[AirSniper]

Scoff all you like. At some point in the future, the funnies you make will backfire on you.

 

Try this 

 
Seems that the Aussies have more of a clue than we do here...

Then go down the rabbit hole and see a growing body of evidence of a cover up by the CCP.

So I say again, scoff and laugh all you like as you are the fools. Just sayin'.

[ImTriggerHappy]

4 hours ago, AirSniper said:

So I say again, scoff and laugh all you like as you are the fools. Just sayin'.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

 

Ain’t that the truth 

[colinjallen]

15 hours ago, rocketdogbert said:

But surely all reality IS  a conspiracy theory? 🤣🤣🤣

Be careful posting stuff like that; the black helicopters will be coming to get you.