CQB training course

[Joe142]

Hi all, so I’ve been looking around on the Google’s and not had much luck 😂 I’m after a training course in the uk to better my CQB skills and learn proper tactics on room clearing etc, i know a lot of people don’t think these kinds of things are very good for Airsoft but personally I love the tactics side of things and love learning new techniques 😁 any info would be awesome 😁

[Lozart]

If you're not playing as a team then you'll learn about as much that's useful on You Tube.

 

Room clearing drills and tactics are all about teamwork, on your own, once you've learnt the basics of the fatal funnel and pieing corners you're pretty much covered.

[leadly]

Names Nicco is worth watching on YouTube. He has an army background and seems to have a lot of experience in CQB.

 

I like the guy but I'm sure someone will be along soon enough to bash him.

 

He's obviously not the only person on YouTube you could watch but from watching his videos I've learnt about pieing corners and swapping from high to low when engaging them baddies. Probably simple stuff but it feels more 2nd nature now I'm actively trying to do it more!

 

I think camp Sparta run training days but I haven't got a clue what that entails and as has been said already, not much point if your rolling solo!

Edited September 29, 2021 by leadly

[hitmanNo2]

I seem to recall Legion Airsoft have done some training events in the past but I'm not seeing any more scheduled. 

 

UFPro on YouTube have some pretty decent videos too

 

 

[Lozart]

13 minutes ago, leadly said:

I like the guy but I'm sure someone will be along soon enough to bash him.

 

 

 

 

Yes, he's ex-military but that doesn't mean he's a CQB expert. Plus it's more of the same "CHEETER EXPOSED!!!!!" "EX SQUADDIE DESTROYS AT AIRSOFT" clickbait bullshit.

 

Personally, I'd recommend this guy https://www.youtube.com/user/rwiley1690 (active duty SWAT officer that also plays airsoft) or these guys 

 

 

[Joe142]

56 minutes ago, Lozart said:

If you're not playing as a team then you'll learn about as much that's useful on You Tube.

 

Room clearing drills and tactics are all about teamwork, on your own, once you've learnt the basics of the fatal funnel and pieing corners you're pretty much covered.

I play alone quite a lot but every now and again I go with a few buddies, I’d ideally like to do the course with a mate or two so we can all learn the drills and be more fluent when it comes to playing as a team

49 minutes ago, leadly said:

Names Nicco is worth watching on YouTube. He has an army background and seems to have a lot of experience in CQB.

 

I like the guy but I'm sure someone will be along soon enough to bash him.

 

He's obviously not the only person on YouTube you could watch but from watching his videos I've learnt about pieing corners and swapping from high to low when engaging them baddies. Probably simple stuff but it feels more 2nd nature now I'm actively trying to do it more!

 

I think camp Sparta run training days but I haven't got a clue what that entails and as has been said already, not much point if your rolling solo!

I’ve watched a few of his vids but I’m Not a massive fan of his, I’ll check out camp Sparta and see what’s what

 

42 minutes ago, hitmanNo2 said:

I seem to recall Legion Airsoft have done some training events in the past but I'm not seeing any more scheduled. 

 

UFPro on YouTube have some pretty decent videos too

 

 

I’ve actually watched all of the UF PRO videos, that’s originally what got me wanting to learn more CQB tactics 😂😁

[leadly]

1 hour ago, Lozart said:

 

 

 

Yes, he's ex-military but that doesn't mean he's a CQB expert. Plus it's more of the same "CHEETER EXPOSED!!!!!" "EX SQUADDIE DESTROYS AT AIRSOFT" clickbait bullshit.

 

Personally, I'd recommend this guy https://www.youtube.com/user/rwiley1690 (active duty SWAT officer that also plays airsoft) or these guys 

 

 

See, that didn't take long 😂

[SSPKali]

I did a training day at Strikeforce in Gloucester put on by the ITAS guys (search for them on Instagram) that covered CQB techniques specifically tailored to airsoft as direct transposition of military tactics doesn’t work.

Was a busy day but ratio of 3:1 students to instructors and a final kill house scenario made it well worth the £80.

[Joe142]

40 minutes ago, SSPKali said:

I did a training day at Strikeforce in Gloucester put on by the ITAS guys (search for them on Instagram) that covered CQB techniques specifically tailored to airsoft as direct transposition of military tactics doesn’t work.

Was a busy day but ratio of 3:1 students to instructors and a final kill house scenario made it well worth the £80.

That’s ace, do you know if they still run it? I’m only 35 mins away from strike force 

[SSPKali]

40 minutes ago, Joe142 said:

That’s ace, do you know if they still run it? I’m only 35 mins away from strike force 

https://www.instagram.com/itas_events/Is their Insta. They hired Strikeforce for the day so I guess they could run it at other locations given enough interest.

 

Pic from the day with Matt, Chris and myself from the DarkOak about to breach a room…again 😁

Edited September 29, 2021 by SSPKali

[Joe142]

23 minutes ago, SSPKali said:

https://www.instagram.com/itas_events/Is their Insta. They hired Strikeforce for the day so I guess they could run it at other locations given enough interest.

 

Pic from the day with Matt, Chris and myself from the DarkOak about to breach a room…again 😁

That looks like great fun, I’ll check out their insta later 

[Rogerborg]

Room clearing drill: pull, throw.  Frag self, get mediced, repeat.

 

 

The issue I have with these courses is: who's training you, and are they training you to play airsoft against rental chavs, or to murderise insurgents up a treat (and then you get rinsed by rental chavs).

 

I've seen a few of these advertised on Failbook, typically promoted as being run by an ex-Delta Special Ranger SAS Force Operator.  When I've asked how they've established said person's bona fides to be sure that they're not just some grifting Walt, it's been crickets, blocking, or the claim suddenly alters.

[Hrimfaxi]

I've attended a few pistol drill/CQB "courses" when FCS were about at in Lewisham, many years ago now.  If anything, it was a laugh! 

[Joe142]

58 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

Room clearing drill: pull, throw.  Frag self, get mediced, repeat.

 

 

The issue I have with these courses is: who's training you, and are they training you to play airsoft against rental chavs, or to murderise insurgents up a treat (and then you get rinsed by rental chavs).

 

I've seen a few of these advertised on Failbook, typically promoted as being run by an ex-Delta Special Ranger SAS Force Operator.  When I've asked how they've established said person's bona fides to be sure that they're not just some grifting Walt, it's been crickets, blocking, or the claim suddenly alters.

I like how you put the frag self, get mediced, repeat real small 😂😂 I do have a 9mm oshiboom grenade which works wonders and I already do the pieing on doorways etc but I just love even if not used completely in Airsoft learning and trying to implement a more realistic play style, I just have more fun that way 😅😂 

but aye I do agree that there’s a lot of those kinda people on Facebook hence asking on the forum to try avoid them all 😂

 

18 minutes ago, Hrimfaxi said:

I've attended a few pistol drill/CQB "courses" when FCS were about at in Lewisham, many years ago now.  If anything, it was a laugh! 

That’s the thing mate, if all else fails it’ll be a good craic and a good laugh 😁😂

[JamesAirsofterAgent]

As others have said best bet is if on your own just use youtube for basics or get a few friends and have a dry run of the basics together (obviously without RIFs). You'd be surprised how much you can learn without needing to use your RIF, just learning simple communications & movements with friends will do you good.  I'd be weary of the courses as often times as others have said its someone who doesn't know anymore than you, its just they've watched Black Hawk Down a few more times, have thrown in a military sounding title and some black cammies > voila, tactical airsoft advisor. 

Edit - If you have friends with pistols and a garden that people can't peer into/neighbours that have been informed etc you can do some quite fun pistol drills at home. Example being get a youtube video such as this, colour code targets and give specific drills to specific numbers IE 1 > fire 1 bb & reload, 2 dont fire, 3 > shoot 2 bbs. If youve got some friends with you it makes a good competition, we just use folding garden chairs as the targets and stack them against a bench. 

Another fun one is write up some random colours, stick 8 in a circle on 2 sticks then have your back turned and have a friend call out a colour target, you have to turn, scan and shoot the right one ( can do a trick call and say a colour which isnt there). Again fun little competition.

 

I usually find drills on this youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePrwAQ4GQmY&t=620s&ab_channel=GunTalkMedia, no idea if there is a drill in the video but they usually have SWAT/Rangers [insert US military branch here] on there walking civilians through CQB tactics with different firearms.

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by JamesAirsofterAgent

[Druid799]

I’ve always been a believer in that if someone is offering any kind of military based training course that the public can attend and it doesn’t cost hundred pounds(training with someone who has time served experience isn’t cheap no matter what field it’s in)then there’s a VERY good chance the person running it is either a walt or bloater . I’ve family and friends who’ve spent yrs working for big international security companies that are also involved in training others and I’m pretty sure none of the ‘bonafide’ companies would have anything to do with training Joe public AND they charged thousands for their courses . 
What it comes down too is the guys who could train you do this properly from their own personal experience are already getting payed mega bucks to do it for a big company somewhere , they don’t need to run Mickey Mouse courses that anyone can attend for a couple of quid . 
As lots have said just YouTube the crap out of it and I’m sure you’ll substantially up your game just by doing that . 👍

[AirSniper]

Training?

The sport / game is for all abilities, so given that many ex-military guys and girls attend airsoft, possibly the best way to learn new skills is if you pay attention to how they play.

Keep an eye open for youtube video bloggers who are ex-military in the airsoft community. They will likely have plenty of material that you can absorb information to give you more scope in game play.

[Rogerborg]

8 hours ago, Druid799 said:

there’s a VERY good chance the person running it is either a walt or bloater

 

Mmm, indeed.  I don't mind honest advertising, and if it's some ex Royal Marine or similar who's actually an airsofter doing it mostly for a laugh, that's another thing.  But I'm thinking of one weekend in particular that was advertised as featuring training by an ex-SAS member, then you'd camp out and listen to his riveting tales of derring do.

 

When I asked how they'd established the identity of someone who isn't supposed to identify himself, who can't be verified, and why he would be blabbing operational details, the advertising got quietly amended to "ex military".  Even at that, I'd wonder.

 

Still, we do this for fun, and if you enjoy the experience, it's all good.  Another thing to consider is asking your local site if you could rent it out on an off-day for your team, specifically to practice tactics and set-situations against the marshals.  They might enjoy that as well.

[Stratton Oakmont]

Can you afford/get hold of enough pyro to do it properly? If not do it speedsoft style as the outcome will be more or less the same as it’s who can shoot

faster and at least you will be a moving target.

 

 

https://ifunny.co/tags/speedsoft

At the last cqb  based venue I played at to use reusable pyro you had to reach your arm into the room and drop it because apparently if you post it under arm my trmr can bounce up and hit someone in the face!!!! 

 

 

Cue getting your arm shot by anyone with a quick response and the thing wouldn’t go off half the time. I love crazy safety rules in a game where you are actively trying to shoot people at close range. In the face!!!!!

Edited September 30, 2021 by Stratton Oakmont

[Tommikka]

5 hours ago, Stratton Oakmont said:

Can you afford/get hold of enough pyro to do it properly? If not do it speedsoft style as the outcome will be more or less the same as it’s who can shoot

faster and at least you will be a moving target.

 

1) Yes I can afford and can get hold of plenty pyro

(However I do have a sponsorship relationship with a pyro company)

 

2) This is key, and reflects some of the earlier posters comments.

What is ‘CQB training’ for?  Playing games is different to real life, a rapid run through often wins and when it doesn’t you just go back and respawn

 

Is the ‘instructor’ just going to teach and run through some drills, or are they going to teach the strategy behind those drills so that you can understand them and apply the right ones at the right time?

 

Additionally the abundant use of pyro might actually be the wrong way to do it Why are you going in?  
 

 

Do you want to kill/eliminate everyone you encounter?

Are there friendlies that may be coming in other doors?

Are you rescuing someone?

If you go too slow will the hostages get executed?

If you go too fast will the hostages get caught in the crossfire?

 

 

 

In real life - why are you bothering to do CQB when you could just bomb the place and drive tanks over the rubble?  
The answer today would be because of the innocent civilians, the answer in Stalingrad was that by destroying the city without immediately defeating the Russians inside it that the Germans created the perfect defences for the Russians to hide in

[SSPKali]

ITAS are all ex-bootnecks who play airsoft for fun and have developed their own methods to make a team more effective. Their training isn’t the cheapest but was good quality (been sent on courses of varying quality with work in the past!) and helped us work better as a unit. Youtube gives you a lot of the theory but you can’t beat someone watching you do it for the umpteenth time and give feedback!
 

It won’t turn you into a Tier 1 door kicker, but you and your mates will be slightly better than the usual headless-chicken players out there and might spend less time walking back to respawn.

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

5 hours ago, Tommikka said:

What is ‘CQB training’ for?  Playing games is different to real life, a rapid run through often wins and when it doesn’t you just go back and respawn

 

Is the ‘instructor’ just going to teach and run through some drills, or are they going to teach the strategy behind those drills so that you can understand them and apply the right ones at the right time?

 

Additionally the abundant use of pyro might actually be the wrong way to do it Why are you going in?  
 

 

Do you want to kill/eliminate everyone you encounter?

Are there friendlies that may be coming in other doors?

Are you rescuing someone?

If you go too slow will the hostages get executed?

If you go too fast will the hostages get caught in the crossfire?

 

 

 

In real life - why are you bothering to do CQB when you could just bomb the place and drive tanks over the rubble?  
The answer today would be because of the innocent civilians, the answer in Stalingrad was that by destroying the city without immediately defeating the Russians inside it that the Germans created the perfect defences for the Russians to hide in

"What is CQB training for?"
 

For getting better, at CQB, in Airsoft.

 

"Is the ‘instructor’ just going to teach and run through some drills, or are they going to teach the strategy behind those drills so that you can understand them and apply the right ones at the right time?"

 

Some will do the first, some will do the second.

 

"Do you want to kill/eliminate everyone you encounter?"

 

Yes, because we're playing Airsoft.

 

This isn't rocket science. People want to get better, at what is probably one of the hardest parts of playing airsoft to do well.

 

From a walting point of view I don't think I'd actually care, I just want to source good training from people who are good at CQB in Airsoft. There are tonnes of courses out there, some will be shit, some will be good. Just like every course system in life. A lot of people in the thread are overthinking this.

Edited September 30, 2021 by DrAlexanderTobacco

[Tommikka]

1 hour ago, DrAlexanderTobacco said:

"What is CQB training for?"
 

For getting better, at CQB, in Airsoft.

 

"Is the ‘instructor’ just going to teach and run through some drills, or are they going to teach the strategy behind those drills so that you can understand them and apply the right ones at the right time?"

 

Some will do the first, some will do the second.

 

"Do you want to kill/eliminate everyone you encounter?"

 

Yes, because we're playing Airsoft.

 

This isn't rocket science. People want to get better, at what is probably one of the hardest parts of playing airsoft to do well. The rest of what you've said is conjecture and doesn't apply to Airsoft.

 

From a walting point of view I don't think I'd actually care, I just want to source good training from people who are good at CQB in Airsoft. There are tonnes of courses out there, some will be shit, some will be good. Just like every course system in life. A lot of people in the thread are overthinking this.

That’s the thing. If it’s ‘eliminate everyone because it’s airsoft’ then 9/10 times the speedsofter will win.

If I’ve designed the mission as ‘rescue the VIP’ then the speedsofter will fail the entire mission in two seconds, and the defenders will have the advantage over gamers who think they can stack up in doorways.

The group who’ve prepared for rapid sacrificial CQB can draw out the defenders from their shadowy hiding spots and have one final player alive to bring out the VIP

 

The conjecture with nothing to do with airsoft is about understanding the tactics - knowing why they are what they are and how to apply them to situations

It’s also why there is a generation of ex soldiers with valid CQB experience.  CQB isn’t just the realm of special forces, it was the bread and butter of quite a few ‘ordinary’ infantry for a few years recently clearing compounds and buildings.

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

21 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

That’s the thing. If it’s ‘eliminate everyone because it’s airsoft’ then 9/10 times the speedsofter will win.

If I’ve designed the mission as ‘rescue the VIP’ then the speedsofter will fail the entire mission in two seconds, and the defenders will have the advantage over gamers who think they can stack up in doorways.

The group who’ve prepared for rapid sacrificial CQB can draw out the defenders from their shadowy hiding spots and have one final player alive to bring out the VIP

 

The conjecture with nothing to do with airsoft is about understanding the tactics - knowing why they are what they are and how to apply them to situations

It’s also why there is a generation of ex soldiers with valid CQB experience.  CQB isn’t just the realm of special forces, it was the bread and butter of quite a few ‘ordinary’ infantry for a few years recently clearing compounds and buildings.

Yea I edited out the conjecture bit because I didn't mean to have a go, but I guess you saw it - apols

 

In any case... All you're doing here, from my perspective, is building up excuses or imaginary situations for why this is a waste of time. You're not going to encounter speedsofters all the time, and certainly not at milsims or battlesims.

 

Point being, CQB training is beneficial for improved performance. You might encounter speedsofters, you might break your ankle trying to do an ultra tactical lean. Either way, it's good to build up skills if you want to play better.

 

 

E: Apologies to bookend with a potential strawman - but I'm trying to draw equivilancy here - to me, this would be saying something like "I would like to learn how to drive go-karts better, so I can do better at go-kart tracks." With the response "Ah, but you see, unfortunately there's a pro racer driving here today and you need to follow my special rules, too"

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by DrAlexanderTobacco

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, DrAlexanderTobacco said:

A lot of people in the thread are overthinking this.

 

Well, the simplest way to git gud at room clearing is to John Wick in while shouting "You missed, you missed, I didn't feel it, gun hit, didn't feel it, missed."

 

My very mild concern about actually paying for training to play pretend soldiers with toys is that it might - might, not saying that it does - indicate a predilection for winning the game rather than playing the game.

 

I'm thinking of a couple of players I've met who took it all far too seriously, and ended up flouncing or being kicked out of the hobby.

 

All that said, I would be interested in doing such a training day, if only to see how well it really works in airsoft versus fearless rentals and pre-firing speedy bois.