A small part of me died

[Druid799]

1 hour ago, Jaylordofwaargh said:

is there not space in a well-known day to have an ultra small map for a game not unlike speed soft? What about a quick game after lunch before the 'main' afternoon? 

At a site that reverses each game 'winning' is all about how quickly you can take each objective isn't?

Don’t disagree the ultimate objective is to win (fastest to capture the what ever type games are among my favorite) but my problem was you had a small group of players who’s only interest was to win as quickly as possible for them selves with no care at all for anyone else taking part and where treating the day almost as a ‘training session’ for them selves . In the end the marshals dropped those type of games and ran the rest of the day single shot only , so you needed field craft as well as a fast gun !😂

Ultimately you had the whole gameday being changed because of a very small group , so you had the majority having to change to accommodate the minority ?     

[Jaylordofwaargh]

3 hours ago, Druid799 said:

win as quickly as possible for them selves with no care at all for anyone else taking part and where treating the day almost as a ‘training session’ for them selves . In the end the marshals dropped those type of games and ran the rest of the day single shot only , so you needed field craft as well as a fast gun !😂

Well done to the marshals for being quick on the take. 

However is this not the case when 'teams' turn up to anytime woodland site? A team of two in full practise more could change the whole flow of the day... I am playing devils here as part of the experience is the community, growth of said community so one of the things to come from that will be teams...

By the same token there are three aspects to our hobby nd having not explored milsim or speedsoft as if get i can't say whether this group was in the wrong place. Are there walk o n speedball days? This question is also out of place here

[Rogerborg]

16 hours ago, Druid799 said:

In the end the marshals dropped those type of games 

 

Then I'm not really seeing much of a problem.  The speedsofties had their fun, then the Bush Wookies did.  Let's sing a song about compromise, and how we're not so different as we think.

 

[Aengus]

Comes down to site managers and marshalls to manage it through game changes and site design at the end of the day. If they can't or wont change their plan for who turns up on the day it must be a poorly ran site and you should be complaining at them rather than the ones that are just playing the game.

 

Also; Was this man called Richard sounds very Richard?

[Druid799]

1 hour ago, Aengus said:

Comes down to site managers and marshalls to manage it through game changes and site design at the end of the day. If they can't or wont change their plan for who turns up on the day it must be a poorly ran site and you should be complaining at them rather than the ones that are just playing the game.

 

Also; Was this man called Richard sounds very Richard?

The site did try to sort it , they asked them to ease up on turning it in to nothing but a foot race and they basically turned around and said fuck off ! So the site then dropped the single objective games and banned full auto for the rest of the day so they had to play the same as everyone else .

Question why should a site change its layout to suit 5or6 players when the other 60 on site are happy with it as it is ? seeing as I’m middle aged with a nackered leg and a couple of cracked vertebrae and can’t run for shit anymore are the guys who run the speedsoft sites going to alter them to suit me because I’ve turned up and want to play there ? Don’t think so !

Equally applies to any sport that has different styles ?  

Just indicative of life in general these days the majority having to bend to accommodate the minority.

PS who the feck is Richard ? 😳

[Immortal]

1 minute ago, Druid799 said:

The site did try to sort it , they asked them to ease up on turning it in to nothing but a foot race and they basically turned around and said fuck off ! So the site then dropped the single objective games and banned full auto for the rest of the day so they had to play the same as everyone else .

Question why should a site change its layout to suit 5or6 players when the other 60 on site are happy with it as it is ? seeing as I’m middle aged with a nackered leg and a couple of cracked vertebrae and can’t run for shit anymore are the guys who run the speedsoft sites going to alter them to suit me because I’ve turned up and want to play there ? Don’t think so !

Equally applies to any sport that has different styles ?  

Just indicative of life in general these days the majority having to bend to accommodate the minority.

PS who the feck is Richard ? 😳

 

Are you shaking your fist through a net curtain whilst saying this?

 

(However I agree; why change for a minority... typical of the times)

[Druid799]

1 minute ago, Immortal said:

 

Are you shaking your fist through a net curtain whilst saying this?

 

(However I agree; why change for a minority... typical of the times)

Nope , I don’t hide behind net curtains if I’m haranguing you in the street then I’m doing it with the window open and I’m hanging out of it shouting at you ! 🤣🤣🤣

[Tackle]

Are there many sites that have particular playing areas perfectly suited to speedsoft/speedball style games, I've only come across one or two in nearly twenty years, & they were only used briefly during gamedays, usually first or last game of the day.

sure, some players are gonna have an advantage in the "get to the objective first" games, but that doesn't have to be a speed softer, just any fit/reasonably young player who's built like a whippet, as opposed to an old lumbering behemoth 😏.

also I don't subscribe to the idea that a dedicated speedsofter will be an accurate shot, their only advantage may lie in using certain cover to get up close & personal & rely on full auto to get lucky hits spraying at targets while on the run, which I can see some more orthodox players (me included) taking exception to being "overkilled" at very close range.

15 minutes ago, Immortal said:

 

Are you shaking your fist through a net curtain whilst saying this?

 

(However I agree; why change for the butt-hurt snowflake morons...... typical of the times)

Fixed that for you 😀

[Musica]

Biggest problem I see is not the speedsofters but that you had game modes designed to end by a game method that could be accomplished by a few individuals.   My local CQB site runs better game modes that just can't end quickly like this. 

 

Fastest game I ever seen was 6 minutes long and it  was an attack defend game mode with no respawns for defenders and the attackers only killed about half of the defenders and rushed in to the objective in a crouch run and claimed it. This is a warm up game as well and they flip sides after awards so you get at least double the time playing assuming you don't get killed first as a defender. 

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

1 hour ago, Druid799 said:

The site did try to sort it , they asked them to ease up on turning it in to nothing but a foot race and they basically turned around and said fuck off ! So the site then dropped the single objective games and banned full auto for the rest of the day so they had to play the same as everyone else .

Question why should a site change its layout to suit 5or6 players when the other 60 on site are happy with it as it is ? seeing as I’m middle aged with a nackered leg and a couple of cracked vertebrae and can’t run for shit anymore are the guys who run the speedsoft sites going to alter them to suit me because I’ve turned up and want to play there ? Don’t think so !

Equally applies to any sport that has different styles ?  

Just indicative of life in general these days the majority having to bend to accommodate the minority.

PS who the feck is Richard ? 😳

Fully accept I might being going against the grain here, but I think it's unfair to blame the presumably younger, more fitter players from playing at the pace they're used to.

 

You're saying the site won't alter the game to suit you, but it sounds like they did. They did the opposite of what you're arguing against. They changed the site layout *against* the 5 or 6 players, to suit the majority - good to see they did it. A bad site owner would've just kept things going as they were.

 

A site's games should be tailored to the players. If no one's really bothered about going for the objectives (that's the impression I get here - correct me if I'm wrong) - what's the problem with just having team deathmatch games? The end result is ultimately the same, everyone has a nice chilled game moving around at their own pace.

 

 

E: Sorry Druid I misread this bit "seeing as I’m middle aged with a nackered leg and a couple of cracked vertebrae and can’t run for shit anymore are the guys who run the speedsoft sites going to alter them to suit me"

 

I assumed you were talking about the original site still, not a hypothetical site - either way I would say that it's not really the speedsofters fault, considering they were simply playing the game as set up by the owners.

 

[Immortal]

I just don't like the shell suit and mums knockoff hangbag kit most Speedsofters wear... 

 

(Ooops, did I say that online?! )

[Tackle]

Sometimes game scenarios are a bit "suck it & see", not everything works with every site or client base, so a bit of flexibility is preferable to players packing up early due to disappointment, whatever the cause.

Unfortunately it's not just speedsofters that can upset the balance, & by balance I don't just mean winning in the shortest possible time with barely a shot fired, I've seen teams turn up that while they're playing in a more traditional military role, their self belief in their own abilities & their overtly aggressive behavior, often combined with a lack of hit taking, has had a detrimental effect on the quality of play for both sides.

the latter type of players often feel that intimidation is part of their strategy, with the often polar results that opposing players will end up either squaring up for verbal or physical altercations, or alternatively walking away, aware that this kind of play isn't what they signed up for, & that it can only escalate.

unfortunately, this kind of thing has become more common, why I don't know.

[Aengus]

2 hours ago, Druid799 said:

The site did try to sort it , they asked them to ease up on turning it in to nothing but a foot race and they basically turned around and said fuck off ! So the site then dropped the single objective games and banned full auto for the rest of the day so they had to play the same as everyone else .

Question why should a site change its layout to suit 5or6 players when the other 60 on site are happy with it as it is ? seeing as I’m middle aged with a nackered leg and a couple of cracked vertebrae and can’t run for shit anymore are the guys who run the speedsoft sites going to alter them to suit me because I’ve turned up and want to play there ? Don’t think so !

Equally applies to any sport that has different styles ?  

Just indicative of life in general these days the majority having to bend to accommodate the minority.

PS who the feck is Richard ? 😳

They're not changing it to suit the minority as such. More just remove the opportunity for random players to have such a drastic effect. So basically what Musica is saying. If a group of 5 out of 60 can turn up and make such a drastic impact that it ruins everyone elses day the site has to have done something wrong whether it be poor site design, simple one man objectives or unbalanced teams. In a well set up site 1/12th of the players tryharding should make little difference. Your site did a good job imo.

 

Also Richard is a guy that loiters on facebook shitposting and riling up people like you ;), Also a pretty decent tech.

[Druid799]

@DrAlexanderTobacco didn’t have a problem with the changes (to be honest I’m not that bothered what ever the game is just as long me and my mates and everyone else have a good day) was just raising the point that the site had to change as the players refused to just rain it in a bit .

Yea was talking hypothetical about a speedsoft site altering its lay out to suit me , just as an example really of if the situation was to be reversed.

I’ve never been against it (I don’t deny Im not a fan but certainly don’t have any problem with anyone who does play it) its just another face of the sport , no it’s just I don’t see them running successfully together on a bog standard walk on site , no one can deny the bulk of the players at a walk-on aren’t particularly fit or ‘speedy’ types so obviously if you chuck a group of super motivated players in the mix then there gona absolutely dominate the game , just the nature of the beast nothing more nothing less . 

11 minutes ago, Aengus said:

They're not changing it to suit the minority as such. More just remove the opportunity for random players to have such a drastic effect. So basically what Musica is saying. If a group of 5 out of 60 can turn up and make such a drastic impact that it ruins everyone elses day the site has to have done something wrong whether it be poor site design, simple one man objectives or unbalanced teams. In a well set up site 1/12th of the players tryharding should make little difference. Your site did a good job imo.

 

Also Richard is a guy that loiters on facebook shitposting and riling up people like you ;), Also a pretty decent tech.

All fair point bud , if anything I’m just trying to highlight the way a small group can have such a huge effect on a site because there game style is run at 200mile an hr 😁! 👍

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

Nobody is stopping 45 year old blokes from being slo- i mean 'sneaky'. But if you get outplayed you get outplayed. In the unlikely event i get told to 'rain it in' id find another place to play - airsoft is a physical activity and most of the time you get out what you put in.

 

Edit: people give speedsofters a hard time, milsimmers a hard time.. seems the only non-controversial thing to do is just bumble about? Sod that!

[Musica]

5 minutes ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

Edit: people give speedsofters a hard time, milsimmers a hard time.. seems the only non-controversial thing to do is just bumble about? Sod that!

 

Just make sure your not having fun. It's serious business only. 

[Druid799]

1 hour ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

Nobody is stopping 45 year old blokes from being slo- i mean 'sneaky'. But if you get outplayed you get outplayed. In the unlikely event i get told to 'rain it in' id find another place to play - airsoft is a physical activity and most of the time you get out what you put in.

 

Edit: people give speedsofters a hard time, milsimmers a hard time.. seems the only non-controversial thing to do is just bumble about? Sod that!

Really not getting it are you ? wasn’t a case getting out played , it was a case of a small group of players using the game day as a cardio training session for them selves and screw the rest there ! If you do want to bring skill in to it then once there speed of foot and speed of gun fire was negated by the moving objectives single shot games they were about as noticeable as beer fart in a thunderstorm , and I ‘think’ they pissed off early (don’t remember seeing them later in the day) so nope not a question of out skilled by any stretch .👍

Given a hard time ? Only when they try lording it over the simple people of ‘normal’ land ?😉 

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

It does sound a lot like you got outplayed but whatever - none of us are getting younger.

[Aengus]

1 hour ago, Druid799 said:

Really not getting it are you ? wasn’t a case getting out played , it was a case of a small group of players using the game day as a cardio training session for them selves and screw the rest there ! If you do want to bring skill in to it then once there speed of foot and speed of gun fire was negated by the moving objectives single shot games they were about as noticeable as beer fart in a thunderstorm , and I ‘think’ they pissed off early (don’t remember seeing them later in the day) so nope not a question of out skilled by any stretch .👍

Given a hard time ? Only when they try lording it over the simple people of ‘normal’ land ?😉 

Ahem, the point I was making . A small group that’s twice as good as your average will still make fuck all difference at a well set up site.

[Immortal]

I've only played a few games in woodland with Speedsofters. I didn't mind the fellas running around except in a game with limited respawns. They used most of them up running in like headless chickens, they may have got a hit but would also get hit in the process. Where as the more skilled players were getting at least a few hits before being hit themselves (if at all). Very annoying to go and respawn to find after one life there's none left.

 

Being a fast runner doesn't make a better player nor does it mean they're better than whatever an average player is (?).

 

Taking an accurate shot and not getting hit shows a skilled player. That is far better than being able to run fast.

 

No need to spray a whole mag when one BB has the same result.

[FreeFrag.UK]

As has already been stated, one of the biggest factors is the ability and willingness of those running the game day to adjust things as time progresses to try and provide the best experience for everyone there. Unfortunately this isn't always easy as people often want to play with their mates (understandable) and can often be unwilling to be split up, even if it is in the interests of improving the day for all involved.

 

On a player level I think the biggest factors are being able to recognise how games are progressing and exercising that bit of judgement when it comes to their own conduct. Marshals and event organisers are far from omniscient and players need to accept a degree of responsibility too. Pummelling the opposing team consistently and to such a degree that you end up spawn camping is a perfect example of things going wrong. While this should be addressed by the staff quickly, it doesn't take much for those dishing out the pounding to say "hey guys, lets fall back a bit and give them some breathing room so that we can actually get some engagements going". I don't know about you guys but I don't find any enjoyment in spawn camping or being spawn camped.

 

It's easy enough to pick apart flaws in site design, layouts or game types but if you see glaring issues then it's up to you to give feedback in an appropriate manner in the hope that in the longer term those involved in the running of the site will find solutions. In the mean time it takes a degree of cooperation between the players and the site staff to find interim solutions.

 

No group is innocent within the airsoft community when it comes down to it; there are bad apples in every bunch. It costs nothing to show a bit of consideration and to conduct yourself in an appropriate fashion. Responding with infantile statements such as "get good" or other such puerile statements only serves to illustrate one of two things: either you are completely lacking in maturity or you're simply selfish to such a degree that it borders on narcissism.

 

Yes, we all like to approach the hobby in different ways and play our own way but a certain degree of give and take isn't an unreasonable expectation, especially when it comes to the more experienced and more mature community members.

[Sneaky]

Not for me.

[clumpyedge]

On 16/09/2019 at 16:26, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

Edit: people give speedsofters a hard time, milsimmers a hard time.. seems the only non-controversial thing to do is just bumble about? Sod that!

 

^ this...

 

I see a lot of people slagging off others that put an inordinate amount of effort into stuff like kit, prep, play style, teching, milsim, speedsoft, impression kits,  (some of those mentioned dont interest me but can appreciate why people like it - me personally I enjoy not only the playing but also the kit prep and organization, sad I know) etc to be the best they can be for their type of game play but no-one bats an eyelid when there's a team at a game who couldn't give a fuck about playing objectives or following a story they just want to empty their mag into a puddle before the first game even starts and then when the first whistle blows amble towards the first bit of cover and barely walk all the way back to spawn when they die while the people who do put the effort in actually do all the pushing/hard work and have to do so on their own and carry a team (and no I'm not just talking about kit whores I have seen full groups of rentals carry the rest of the team of "seasoned" Airsofters)

 

You can try and balance teams all you want but when you have people that turn up to games that literally have no interest in anything other than shooting anything that makes a noise or goes splish splash its hard to even that out. Don't get me wrong if you pay your money you do what you want (within reason) but why turn up to games with no intention of ever wanting to actually play the games? there is absolutely no logic in that what so ever, those types could quite easily just go in the garden with their mate and shoot each other there.

 

As a marshal its really disheartening and also very morale draining to have a group of people who couldn't give a toss how much effort you put in to make the day enjoyable for everyone by just not giving a shit and deciding that they would rather just amble about and not even attempt the objectives. Skirmishes always have an objective and I've not been to a site yet that doesn't at least have a loose objective to a game.

 

While I may have gone off on a bit of a rant there, there is definitely room for everyone in Airsoft but I think that people really need to consider not only their audience as a site but as a player, where you choose to play.

 

On 16/09/2019 at 21:10, FreeFrag.UK said:

On a player level I think the biggest factors are being able to recognise how games are progressing and exercising that bit of judgement when it comes to their own conduct. Marshals and event organisers are far from omniscient and players need to accept a degree of responsibility too.

 

100% this. Sometimes we have a team being thrashed all day and moan constantly about changing up the teams, teams get changed, team still gets pummeled. We've seen it happen where just one or two people attitudes can either kill or carry a whole team of people through a game day .

[Skara]

If a large group of people doesn't give a crap about objectives, isn't in the site's interest to just flip the schedule and play mainly team deathmatch games?

[Musica]

1 hour ago, clumpyedge said:

You can try and balance teams all you want but when you have people that turn up to games that literally have no interest in anything other than shooting anything that makes a noise or goes splish splash its hard to even that out. Don't get me wrong if you pay your money you do what you want (within reason) but why turn up to games with no intention of ever wanting to actually play the games? there is absolutely no logic in that what so ever, those types could quite easily just go in the garden with their mate and shoot each other there.

 

I seen some videos up from my local site and one of the titles was TDM. I attended that day and  there was no TDM played that day 😅 I commented on this and he said he forgot what the objective was. No l wonder his team got pumped all day.