Opinion Discussion, which hits should count?

[A Radford]

Hi everyone,

 

I thought I would open up an open discussion on the topic of hits to guns, helmets, equipment etc.

 

I have been to about 5 or 6 airsoft games locations in total and there has been a mix of ruling on gun shots therefore question No. 1 is:

 

1. Should shots hitting a player gun count as a hit?

 

On this one I am of the opinion that it shouldn't. the two airsoft location I played where a gun hit counted doubled up as paint ball locations. All the airsoft dedicated playing grounds said that shots to guns don't count.

 

 

 

The next question I want to ask is about equipment/gear hits. I'll put this into context: you are wearing a kitted out tac vest (some grenades, smokes and and mags lining you) and you take cover behind a tree. The only thing that is protruding out of cover is a few inches of your the side of your tac vest. A pellet comes flying and hits one of your pouches however if the pouch wasn't there it wouldn't hit you. (I hope you managed to keep up with that )

 

2. should the above situation and ones similar where there is overhanging gear be a hit or not?

 

This is a tricky one because it could lead to arguments about if so and so was hit or not and it would make life more difficult for the marshals so I would be inclined to say that if it is on you and its hit it counts. From my experience however I would say that airsofters don't usually seem too bothered about this. if a hit takes place in this kind of manner the person who has been hit may not feel it and I feel that if I was shooting I would understand that. as long as the shot wasn't literally straight in their eye-line. This actually happened to me in a paintball game but of course then then when someone shouts that they hit you you can look down and see the paint splodge on your gear. Slightly different in airsoft though obviously. I'll be interested to know your opinions on this one.

 

 

 

The final and possibly most controversial question I'd like to put up for discussion is:

 

3. Should shots to military/swat style helmets count?

 

I am on the fence with this one. On the one had I think they should count because not everyone wants to wear a helmet and because all other types of body armour do not protect you from taking hits. It would be rather ridiculous if everyone ran around airsoft grounds in kevlar shouting "YOU HIT THE BODY ARMOUR!!!!" .. On the other hand since some sites don't allow head-shots anyway, it would probably make for another slightly interesting tactics variation and military helmets do save you from death by bullet. Also I would like to make it clear that I don't mean a full face motorbike style helmet or juggernaut helmet just a top of head swat/military helmet (you know what i mean ) I you ran an airsoft ground what would you do?

 

 

I look forward to your input

[Lozart]

Personally anything that hits the gun IN YOUR HAND is a weapon hit and doesn't count (weapon disabling etc is a whole different kettle of fish). Anything else that hits you, your kit or your helmet is a hit and it counts. Any sort of "oh you hit my body armour" gets ridiculous because then you'll have people arguing that THEY have a P90 so your body armour is irrelevant or a sniper arguing that a FAST helmet wouldn't stop a .50 BMG from his Barrett.

 

You have to draw the line somewhere.

[sp00n]

1, yes, however this is site rule dependent

2. yes, if you wear it its hit point

3. yes, if not this is too open to abuse etc

[Sitting Duck]

yes to all

 

the first one - gun hit/disable applies to my site

what you are supposed to do is switch to secondary/pistol if gun is hit

 

As I often don't carry pistol I am brown bread if my gun is hit

 

Not all sites apply this rule but think majority go with gun disabled

and if you no secondary - ya dead m8

 

helmet - deffo, and I'll say the tink of a bb just scraping ya helmet - ooh painful

makes it easy to know ya hit than a light tap/scrape against armour or a whisper or flick on boonie rim etc....

 

I made it to cover once last time or so I thought, but 2 secs later I realised I took a tink to my helmet

(the delayed realisation when pumped up but slowly it dawns I'm hit.....)

I popped my hand out and started to emerge from cover announcing - yup I'm hit

 

F*CK ME some bastid DMR mofo shot my hand straight away - I had gloves but jeez it stung a smidge

(followed by the usual retards who fail to see ya hand up and follow up shooting dead people)

jeez I thought - forget this playing fair bollox sometimes - kidding

 

But the above instance makes it easy to feel ya hits to ya head from scraping ya helmet....

snigger snigger smutty comments etc.....

[jcheeseright]

Anything from the top of your head to the tip of your toes.

[Happy]

Where I play gun hits count if they are across your chest or if it comes from in front of you. If you're poking your rifle out of cover and it hits the side I the barrel then it doesn't count. Just a matter of common sense really.

[Okto Eight Milsim]

There is no right or wrong to this really. It depends on the site and as you've found out there are lots of variations.

 

We play milsims and have a ruling that a hit to a weapon only disables the weapon, but we don't accept the use of body armour or helmets in terms of hit prevention.

A hit to any part of the body or gear (excluding weapon) is a wound.

 

When we reach anything controversial regarding these kind of rules, we have polling votes within our player community to seek buy-in.

 

We recently discussed having kill and wound areas on the body following one of the players posting up about a new electronic milsim scoring system that somebody had made in Poland. In the end, the community didn't buy in, so it didn't go any further.

 

The worse we could think of is some sort of unified sport ruling so every site was the same. That would be so boring.

[Guest PT247]

At our site gun hits mean switch to secondary/semi auto, next hit you are out wherever it is.

All other hits count be they to head armour or chest rigs or the heel of your boot.

 

I like these rules, they make sense, are not complicated and less abuse.

[Esoterick]

I think all hits to the body or equipment should count. I've never played anywhere where this isn't the case though

 

As far as gun hits go I think the best rule is it disables your gun and you can switch to a backup if you carry one, once this gets hit you are out. Where i've seen this rule in play you aren't allowed to take more than 2 gun hits(i.e. carry loads of weapons to use as lives)

 

I have always suspected that people could use a no gun hit rule to treat their gun as a shield, but i've not witnessed it.

[n1ckh]

I know this all people running around and being pretend soldiers but I say yes to all 3

 

Any hit on any part of you is still a hit wether it's a bb, a rock or a real round

 

As to the weapon, if a real one is hit then it's out of action. It's the same with ricochets, if it hits you then it counts

 

Problem is that different sites have different rules

 

My original site allowed U18's to use pyro's but my regular site (now) doesn't allow it for safety reasons

[Sitting Duck]

Technically if gun is hit/disabled you could stay in play even if you don't have secondary

As suppose you could go for knife kill or stay in for recon/overwatch.....

 

but as explained I don't caryy secondary usually so ig gun hit/disabled it is just easy and les rows to say wtf I'm off to respawn/dead zone

 

rebounds and getting shot through tiny holes/slits that you can't stick ya head through seem to cause more rows/debates

 

you know if you can't fit ya head through you can't shoot through it

plus getting the odd bb through a slit in some stacked pallets don't count

but none the less there is still some bitching now n then

 

rebounds are another matter - in a split second you often have to decide if that was a direct hit or possible ricochet tap

often I call it no matter what and even if I'm 101% it is a ricochet I call a possible second ricochet to avoid any crap

 

Well that is how I try to roll but it ain't always so easy n clear cut out in the heat of the moment

I often just call it and like to think I have played more on the fairer side than shrug off loads of clear hits like some players I see

 

try to play fair n call ya hits but don't get too stressed if not everybody rolls the same way - thats my guideline I go with

[Lozart]

I don't agree on ricochets. Granted a real ricochet will f*** you up just as well as a direct hit in many cases but in airsoft you could end up with someone deliberately aiming at the side of a tree or a wall to hit you with ricochets.

 

As I say, you have to draw a line somewhere.

[Okto Eight Milsim]

Never seen it happen at ours, but if your primary weapon is hit, it's considered disabled.

If you have a secondary weapon and that gets hit, that is disabled as well. You then have to survive without any weapons and rely on buddies to get you to safety.

[Lozart]

Technically if gun is hit/disabled you could stay in play even if you don't have secondary

As suppose you could go for knife kill or stay in for recon/overwatch.....

 

but as explained I don't caryy secondary usually so ig gun hit/disabled it is just easy and les rows to say wtf I'm off to respawn/dead zone

 

rebounds and getting shot through tiny holes/slits that you can't stick ya head through seem to cause more rows/debates

 

you know if you can't fit ya head through you can't shoot through it

plus getting the odd bb through a slit in some stacked pallets don't count

but none the less there is still some bitching now n then

 

rebounds are another matter - in a split second you often have to decide if that was a direct hit or possible ricochet tap

often I call it no matter what and even if I'm 101% it is a ricochet I call a possible second ricochet to avoid any crap

 

Well that is how I try to roll but it ain't always so easy n clear cut out in the heat of the moment

I often just call it and like to think I have played more on the fairer side than shrug off loads of clear hits like some players I see

 

try to play fair n call ya hits but don't get too stressed if not everybody rolls the same way - thats my guideline I go with

 

 

I'm not opposed to being shot through the holes in pallets and stuff. I like the rule at The Mall on this - if the hole is smaller than an A4 sheet you can't poke your gun through it but if you can fire through it from 10ft away then that's fine (skill shotting). Stops people hosing down through a hole and potentially blind firing someone at close range.

[Sitting Duck]

I know this all people running around and being pretend soldiers but I say yes to all 3

 

Any hit on any part of you is still a hit wether it's a bb, a rock or a real round

 

As to the weapon, if a real one is hit then it's out of action. It's the same with ricochets, if it hits you then it counts

 

Problem is that different sites have different rules

 

My original site allowed U18's to use pyro's but my regular site (now) doesn't allow it for safety reasons

 

Ricochets is a bastid tricky one as I said but to me I'll call the second one just to make the peace

 

my site will allow my responsible (but f*cking stroppy) son to use a bfg with my approval but not pyro's

 

all sites are different and some players may or may not fully understand the slight different rules at some sites

(or they might just be dirty cheating bastids)

 

As my site is a cheap n cheerful but quite safe most of us tend to leave our ego's at home at just enjoy ourselves no matter what the other players are like

Sod the K/D crap, I play for fun with other similar saddo's with toy guns

[Lozart]

leave our ego's at home at just enjoy ourselves

 

This.

 

 

A million times this.

[Sitting Duck]

 

 

I'm not opposed to being shot through the holes in pallets and stuff. I like the rule at The Mall on this - if the hole is smaller than an A4 sheet you can't poke your gun through it but if you can fire through it from 10ft away then that's fine (skill shotting). Stops people hosing down through a hole and potentially blind firing someone at close range.

 

Like I said it is hard in the split second to decide what is a direct proper hit

what size a hole is, if that cover is truely solid or like getting shot through a bush - yes it counts

 

I like to think I have played as fair as possible - numerous times reflecting if I really was hit but too late I called it

but people as well as sites do not always play the exact same way as everybody else

and the odd genuine mistake - bad call or people thinking they must of hit ya but dry fire or way off target etc....

jeez - I just try not to sulk but there are some people I won't be inviting to my Birthday Party no more

[cyrexx]

All 3 should count as hits, reduce the changes of cheating/powerplaying. I've seen people hide behing their guns (was a PKM) when gun hits didn't count, really ruined the game, and from that I won't ever pay at a site that has gun hits don't count a s rule.

 

Regarding ricochets I'm not fussed, i'll take anything that hits me unless I can comfirm 100% that it was a ricochet.

[Okto Eight Milsim]

In our humble opinion, creating rules to stop cheats is the wrong way to go.

 

Cheating should be stopped other ways and rules should be made for safety or to make the game better.

[n1ckh]

Funny enough, my last game me & my mates played SF, we came upon a position where we got it from the left & in front

 

I was hitting one guy about 25m to my left behind a barricade, he exposed most of his body I was in the open & every shot he fired sailed past me, he shouted for me to take his hits & I said I would if they hit me lol

[cyrexx]

In our humble opinion, creating rules to stop cheats is the wrong way to go.

 

Cheating should be stopped other ways and rules should be made for safety or to make the game better.

 

I totally agree, but sadly there's always a few that push the rules/cheat, plus I think it helps reduce any arguments about people not taking hits.

[deebo]

I like okto's rule of if it hits a gun its disabled. Id do rgis for any gun. Aside from that no, any hit on a person counts. Real bullets come in all sorts of penetrating rounds so armour isnt as good as hoped some times.

[Okto Eight Milsim]

We never understand people who cheat in milsims.

 

They play milsim saying they want it to be realistic.

 

If they cheat when they are hit by pretending they weren't, then how is that realistic and surely they are only depriving themselves of the realism they crave ?

[ImTriggerHappy]

I think whether gun hits count should depend on the type of site. Like lozart said at the mall gun hits dont count and thats right for there and other cqb places. If gun hits counted then all some people would do is hide in places and shoot at every gun that started to appear round the corner because the gun comes round first. Also a lot of people like minimal loadouts for cqb and dont always want to carry a side arm.

In other sites like woodland which are not a maze of corridors then the gun being disabled works well.

Anywhere else counts

Ricochets shouldnt, all the in the real world ricochets would count is crap its not the real world and bullets dont ricochet like bbs do off breeze blocks and wooden walls.

Kit should count.

Skill shotting through gaps should count and be applauded for good aim.

As for stopping people cheating isnt going to happen ever. Must of shot a couple of dozen people last weekend who didnt call it and you could see the tracer rounds bouncing off. Its a sad fact that in a game based on honour so few players have any.

[deebo]

Yep! Its because what they really want is everyone to look up to them like some sort of bullet hard god like soldier and to have a reputation smong airsoft as the best. If they wanted that, they should have been a real soldier.