Green Party banning airsoft

[joshcowin]

Just read this on airsoft action this morning such a shame someone has to throw the towel

[Guest PT247]

So not only do they want to leave our country defenceless by getting rid of the nuclear deterrent, they also want to ban a healthy sport that helps build teamwork, fitness and confidence. I'd never vote Green and have almost fallen out with a friend who believes they are the future. Go home Green, you're drunk!

[Undieing_Lust]

Green party need to be sent away in a boat and get lost in the ocean.

[Colonel Kurtz]

That would suck if we had to all have twotone/see through guns but the game would continue. I dont really have much sympathy for anyone who quit airsoft due to this, or ditched a friend due to differing political beliefs.

In my mind the Green party is abit 50/50 between good ideas and morally good bad ideas.

I can def agree with not renting nukes off the yanks anymore, why bother as we cant fire them independantly and theyve got thousands sitting in US subs/silos. And if anyone fires one we're all fooked M.A.D style anyways. The subs themselves would still be there and free to house more conventional weapons. It would mean there'd be many many billions of extra cash in the defence budget, about 5-10% of the total. Even if they cut some it could leave enough money to care for the actual soldiers more, give them better equipment and especially healthcare/support/pay and hopefully make charities like help for heros unnecessary.

Green party will never get in anyways, the odds of them even being involved in a coalition gov are very very slim. I would find it hysterical if everyone went more extreme; past tories all vote ukip and past liberals/labour all vote Green. Then we could have a UKIP/Green coalition government. I think theyd need Harvey Dent to run the show and do the coin flipping

[Guest PT247]

as far as the nuclear deterrent goes, do you think for a second America would be such a "friend" if we didn't have nukes? America also does not control when we fire or even if we fire, they are the UKs nuclear deterrent, not an extra wing of the US Navy! And as for giving the subs a different role, the only possible role they could have other than being on constant patrol 24hrs a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year deterring other countries from inflicting their regimes on our country would be to fit them with Tomahawk Cruise missiles in a vertical launch system within the tubes (which is doable) but not practical or a deterrent.... having a sub fully loaded with Tomahawk missiles out prowling waters would be an actual aggressive act and would start a war, having a nuclear sub in the middle of the sea with no launch package achievable within a designated timeframe is not aggressive to a specific country and because it is constant sending the sub to sea is not an act of aggression either. Sending a sub out with 50 Tomahawks constantly would not be viable as it would have to be in a non threat environment (ie middle of the sea) where it wouldn't have the range to strike anywhere. This would mean leaving them in port until we thought country X was getting a little rowdy so it gets sent out, country X sees that the sub has gone and threatens war with us due to our act of aggression towards them.

Having spent time at RAF Headley Court with a broken back I can honestly say the armed forces have some of the best care available to them, having damaged my shoulder on a different occasion and needing surgery I was under the knife less than a week later with minimal scarring, had that been on the NHS rather than through the RN I would have had stitches all around my shoulder, restricted movement and other implications for future life. The armed forces does look after it's people.

 

I served 12 years, I never had before and poss never will after earn as much as I did while serving, I wasn't an officer, I worked hard in my branch so did get promoted which helped fund many motorbikes and other silliness, so please don't think that all you hear about pay and conditions in the forces is true, had I not been serving when I injured myself I would probably not be able to play airsoft now due to lack of mobility.

 

I do believe you are possibly right reference 2 toning guns that airsoft may go on living, but it will not be the sport it is currently. Any metal gun will have to be 2 tone as it can't be transparent so will stand out like a sore thumb when skirmishing (just like all 2 tones currently do) which takes away the sneaky surprise attacks on folk, which is half the fun for me personally. What you and others possibly fail to see is that ANY new legislation of our sport leads to further legislation, and before you know it we will only be allowed to run around with sticks in the woods shouting bang bang, dakka dakka dakka and throwing pine cones at our mates.

 

Defend the sport you love, don't allow people who know nothing of the sport dictate how we play it!

[sp00n]

to be honest i am not that worried as my left testicle has more chance of getting elected to prime minister then they do

 

i have never voted green, and i never will

[ikarma70]

Green Party vote is a wasted vote!

[Colonel Kurtz]

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmdfence/986/986we13.htm

 

A link to the house of commons defence commitee report on the matter.

 

Edit - removed my lengthy anti-nuke rantings as off-topic. But basically i'd think it's more likely we get nuked due to having to participate in a US strike, than us getting taken over by a foreign power if we didn't have them.

 

On-topic - I shall be voting monster-raving-looney or defacing my ballot as usual, until someone that isnt a douche or a turd is availible to vote for. I'd be interested to see the figures for gun-crime involving RIF in the UK and what the expected result of banning them is. If they became illegal there'll be thousands of illegal RIF floating around the country and many would sell them illegally rather than hand them in to be destroyed (if a paint job wasn't enough to stop it counting as RIF). So effectively it'd flood the criminal markets with RIF and increase the amount of crime commited using them.

 

Of course unless someone shoots you can't tell if it's real or not so very hard to judge how much RIF is used in crime.

[Zak Da Mack]

The thing is, I feel like people who vote Green party seem to do so as a "fuck you" vote to the LibLabCon who don't want to vote UKIP. Some of Green's policies seem absurd and their budgeting is frankly appalling. AS such, they will never get into power. However, if they did, I'm sure airsofters across the UK would make sure that our sport stays alive, even if it means that we lose some of what we have today. Even if it means having an actual license of some sort. I'd rather have that than no no airsoft at all. Also, I'd be glad if they get rid of nukes. It's an old solution to an old problem. We'd all die anyway and be seen as less of a threat to anyone who would launch nukes in the first place.

[TheGrover]

Did this thread go off topic a little

 

Back to the point, if someone from the green party manages to get some big hitters to get behind this, our community may well be screwed, and we may have to get them to extend their "licence" idea to cover recreation, like shotguns now.

 

Maybe we could host a skirmish at their office and show them that there are indeed legitimate reasons to own a toy gun... Then start throwing bfgs at the dozy buggers

[Colonel Kurtz]

How about a Green-Party themed game at this years national airsoft event where the winner is the team that manages to hug and hold on to the most amount of trees?

[Sitting Duck]

We will be fine chaps - just much easier targets to pick off with 2-tones

(won't matter to me coz I suck at it)

 

suppose I'd best start ordering Bio's now or will they asked that we all use dried peas or corn now

maybe help farmers sow the fields a bit

 

oh yeah feel the love already - yeah right

Take that ya greenie with my non-eviromental firendly plastic bb's

 

ah crap, we might even be demoted to spring plinkers to save global warming ffs

[TheGrover]

 

suppose I'd best start ordering Bio's now or will they asked that we all use dried peas or corn now

maybe help farmers sow the fields a bit

 

oh yeah feel the love already - yeah right

Take that ya greenie with my non-eviromental firendly plastic bb's

 

 

Dried peas: crap acurracy but i bet they leave a good welt when you sneak up on a greenie

[Guest PT247]

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmdfence/986/986we13.htm

 

A link to the house of commons defence commitee report on the matter.

 

Edit - removed my lengthy anti-nuke rantings as off-topic. But basically i'd think it's more likely we get nuked due to having to participate in a US strike, than us getting taken over by a foreign power if we didn't have them.

 

On-topic - I shall be voting monster-raving-looney or defacing my ballot as usual, until someone that isnt a douche or a turd is availible to vote for. I'd be interested to see the figures for gun-crime involving RIF in the UK and what the expected result of banning them is. If they became illegal there'll be thousands of illegal RIF floating around the country and many would sell them illegally rather than hand them in to be destroyed (if a paint job wasn't enough to stop it counting as RIF). So effectively it'd flood the criminal markets with RIF and increase the amount of crime commited using them.

 

Of course unless someone shoots you can't tell if it's real or not so very hard to judge how much RIF is used in crime.

The link appears to be one side, not an unbiased report: "Greenpeace would like to thank the following for their help in the background research for this submission - John Ainslie, Scottish CND...."

 

But you are right, we have gone way off topic and even my 12yrs service as a submariner is a bias one so back to the point intended:

 

Banning RIFs from airsoft is stupid.

[Samurai]

Using bio BBs is not such a bad idea in my opinion. I'm no green at all but I use them instead of the never degrading ones. We pour quite a few bags of plastic on the airsoft fields each weekend. I think that adds up too fast.

[BrightCandle]

I would really like to see the crime numbers where UKARA holding individuals are committing crimes with RIFs. Because I suspect its not a big number!!!

 

The wife will be disappointed, she was holding some notion that despite some craziness the Greens weren't so actively harmful. But banning our hobbies done between consenting adults is just dumb.

 

Why is all of British politics so authoritarian? I don't understand why everyone wants to ban my exercise system or the computer games I play. Its all madness, I am not hurting a sole (well only the ones that sign up to be downstream of my BBs of course)

[M_P]

Who cares? They have no chance of getting in anyway. People who are happy with the current government will vote conservative, those who aren't will vote labour and the nutters will vote ukip.

[Sitting Duck]

I agree - we should be using bio's

but the limited options/stocks/slight price increase means that most places mainly stock regular plastic ones

 

Hmmmm - Quorn BB's, solves the enviromental issue and handy if ya feeling hungry out in the field

plus keeps the vegan's happy too - well except Mr Spock but he is a Vulcan not Vegan

 

soz getting silly again - back on topic

 

screw the green's

[joshcowin]

Who cares? They have no chance of getting in anyway. People who are happy with the current government will vote conservative, those who aren't will vote labour and the nutters will vote ukip.

no one can be happy with the current government their about as much use as a chocolate teapot,labour if you are foreign and ukip if your a racist,simples

[Sitting Duck]

They are much the same really and politics like religion (and ukara)

none of it is worth bitching about.....

 

All of them are liars and just tell you anything to get ya vote

never listen to you any other time except when they want your vote

 

be glad when its all over and we have another load of deaf selfish out of touch f*ckwits running it badly - again

[BrightCandle]

no one can be happy with the current government their about as much use as a chocolate teapot,labour if you are foreign and ukip if your a racist,simples

 

So where do all the moderate Britains go to vote? Because there is a lot of room between foreign and racist!!!!! I looked at the political compass yesterday and was kind of horrified how authoritarian and right wing the entirety of British politics is these days, its a huge swing to the extremes. When the SNP is your only central party you know something has gone wrong!

 

I just want to play Airsoft with my legally bought RIFs. I can live with them being brightly coloured if that is what it takes but I don't want to. I feel as each day passes the chance this harmless sport will get banned increases. We are living on borrowed time in a country that vilifies anything to do with shooting at all. At the shooting range (you know where olympians train) we were told to never say what was there to passer bys that asked, so it was also a lecture on something crazy like molecular biology or some such to throw people off the scent that they were near guns used by trained professionals for shooting holes in paper. This countries ruling elite is off the wall gun stupid.

 

Yet when I travel back and forth to airsoft games I find the average taxi guy is quite interested in the sport and they certainly aren't afraid of it. I don't think the average Britain is afraid of a country knowing about weapons as the establishment is. My own pet theory is its just an attempt to control the narrative and try and disarm an ever annoyed public that might one day revolt when the strategy of working within the system becomes obviously pointless.

[NickM]

I have voted green in the past and intend to vote green again. My reasons are this,

 

Their standpoint on fracking is one I agree with, we should be working towards a future that is powered by sustainable energy and not fossil fuels the reasons for that are clear but until someone starts pushing things that way we will continue down a route we will regret later.

 

Many of their other policies are actually quite good and they will fight for their ideals (just look at the Green MP for Brighton and Hove, arrested protesting against the fracking in West Sussex).

 

Like many parties they have some wacky ideas but on a scale including LibLabCon to UKIP they are far more moderate than most. This is a protest vote if nothing else.

 

While in many areas my green vote might be a wasted one I now live in Norwich which has a strong green presence and is making progress towards actually gaining a seat at the next election, the other likely places are Brighton and Hove (my previous residence and currently a Green MP) and Bristol again another place that is looking promising as a green seat. So elsewhere it might be wasted but it is likely to make a difference here. However 3 seats does not make a strong party to be making waves at Westminster. They will have little or no power realistically in the wider law making arena and realistically they would be pushing some of the larger issues that they are more concerned about like climate and the environment.

 

If nothing else they are miles better than UKIP as a protest vote. Lib dem probably would have been my protest vote of choice previously but current performance suggests they are not worthy. Any seat lost by LibLabCon and not won by UKIP is a great thing in my eyes, it will force the parties to consider their position.

[cavninja]

Oh I do hope and pray that not only does some do gooding politically correct nutter who thinks airsoft is evil gets in to power, but more importantly i hope they don't get in to a position to be a minority in a coalition government and be king maker and make airsoft one of their pet projects the big boys let em have as a sop to keep them quiet! Remember how big a lobby the countryside alliance is and look how far they got?!

 

I would agree with all that there is a perception in the UK that all guns are bad and all who like em are nutter, but if you talk to people about airsoft and show them what we do and what we use, they're generally very interested. Have any clubs or groups done any out reach like that? Perhaps at Uni?

 

Having spent 23 years in the military and now 6 years in the diplomatic service, I know when the "good idea fairy" turns up with another load of b*ll*cks!! and right on cue come the Greens!!

 

PT, thank you for your service my friend, only met your strange breed very briefly during my time, but was always thoroughly impressed with those who'd earned the Dolphins, always wanted to do the SETT course myself, just for shizzles, had some friends in my old dive club, who blagged a dive there!

 

I think that's far enough off topic now.......

[Colonel Kurtz]

The link appears to be one side, not an unbiased report: "Greenpeace would like to thank the following for their help in the background research for this submission - [/size]John Ainslie, Scottish CND...."

But you are right, we have gone way off topic and even my 12yrs service as a submariner is a bias one so back to the point intended:

Banning RIFs from airsoft is stupid. [/size]

Its a report from a parlimentary select commitee. It is their job to wade through information submitted to them related to a specific issue/topic and come up with a 'factual' report that has had any bias removed. So yes some of the sources of the report can certainly be deemed biased such as Greenpeace, but the whole point of such commitees is removing bias and coming up with what can be considered a factual report. People with any kind of bias are more likely to submit information to them because they have an opinion they want to try and backup with facts. The committee must verify the facts and the validity of the related opinions.

 

Of course there's potential bias in who gets appointed to such committees, and then plenty of bias in terms of how their findings are acted apon. The report is full of reasons for the common justifications of Trident being an outdated misconception, but rather than simply deem it therefor pointless, it has come up with more pragmatic justifications in their place. The generally theme of these being that where America leads we must follow. And this was the decision made, and the next generation of Trident has been signed up for and too many deals made to make cancelling it anything less than catastrophic in cost.

 

Essentially these reports don't really mean anything until the decision has been made and the results of the decision clear. If it turns out to be the wrong decision, then it's the kind of thing cited in parliament against the party/persons who made the decision for why it was an obviously bad one. If no shite hits the fan, then it doesn't matter how 'for' or 'against' the findings of the report the decision was.

[Guest PT247]

PT, thank you for your service my friend, only met your strange breed very briefly during my time, but was always thoroughly impressed with those who'd earned the Dolphins, always wanted to do the SETT course myself, just for shizzles, had some friends in my old dive club, who blagged a dive there!

Haha, the SETT is awesome.... or rather it was.... the health and safety brigade (ironic that I now work in health and safety) put a stop to the fun parts as they deemed it too dangerous to practice in a nice heated tank with fully qualified divers and first aiders and a decompression tank should the need arise, instead submariners are now expected to try escape from a submarine in the cold, pitch black, smoke filled and poisonous gas filled environment whilst probably injured with crew mates dead and get it right first time in probably far deeper waters than the 30m tank in Gosport!