Which retailers in the UK accept Just-Cos Cosplayer Insurance?

[Tackle]

6 hours ago, Enid_Puceflange said:

Yup, to be fair, it’s only recently that I have wanted to buy something new, from a store as they were just released - new models.
Almost all of my purchases otherwise have been through here or other forums/groups

Never been asked for a defence 

I've had maybe 3 or 4 members insist on some form of defence, initially adamant about ukara, but instead was able put together enough relevant info, as well as proof of an extensive rif armoury that shows that there's no criminality involved by adding to the collection. 

3 hours ago, superwok said:

 

I recently purchased an EMG Noveske N4. My local store does not stock this. Occasionally, I see similar rifs listed here and my past experiences buying and selling rifs through this platform have been positive.

 

However, I'm cautious with ads claiming the item is 'brand new,' 'never skirmished,' or 'used only in the garden,' especially when the asking price is nearly identical to a new item's cost. I prefer purchasing from retailers, so I can try them out, with the option to return if unsatisfied. Also with the added security provided by my credit card and to avoid the hassle of resolving issues with second-hand rifs not being as described. 

 

This forum is great for many things, like advice, selling and buying, dragging out threads over 6 pages from a simple question but you have very little protection over sales, other than paypal. 
 

Obviously claims of "brand new" etc need to be taken with a pinch of salt, after all @avenger63 claims nearly everything he sells is new😏, which we know is bs. 

But looking at the seller, feedback, post count, & most importantly post content, can give you an idea of the type of person your dealing with, whether its a commited knowledgeable player or a surly know nothing chav will definitely be an indicator of the quality of kit their selling, & if their claims are to be believed. 

[superwok]

looking at sellers feedback is all fine and good, but when you want a new toy, that is extra effort. easier to buy from a retailer.

[Tackle]

33 minutes ago, superwok said:

looking at sellers feedback is all fine and good, but when you want a new toy, that is extra effort. easier to buy from a retailer.

Your money, your choice 😁

[BigStew]

So am I like the only person that actually asks for proof of defense for the stuff i sell? Also how is this thread still going.

Just Cos goes against the the defense that was hard won and completely undermines the airsoft industry's ability to prove it can self regulate by selling RIFs to anyone and is a wonderful piece of ammunition for any pollical group who feel the need to go after airsoft.

[Cannonfodder]

2 hours ago, Tackle said:

Your money, your choice 😁

Agreed. I tend to buy new as I'm happy to pay a little more for something where I know it's new and I have the peace of mind knowing if it is a lemon it can go straight back for a refund. Also tbh it's very rare that something shows up in the classifieds which piques my interest and I actually have funds for

[gavinkempsell]

I've bought a few pews from the classifieds & a few from shops, on at least 3 occasions I've ordered from a shop & in a matter of days the pew I ordered at new price has appeared in the classifieds at a much lower price... DOH!

[Enid_Puceflange]

2 hours ago, BigStew said:

So am I like the only person that actually asks for proof of defense for the stuff i sell? Also how is this thread still going.

Just Cos goes against the the defense that was hard won and completely undermines the airsoft industry's ability to prove it can self regulate by selling RIFs to anyone and is a wonderful piece of ammunition for any pollical group who feel the need to go after airsoft.

I’m not having a pop at you, bud they are your RIF’s to sell , but…..

If you had something up for sale and you recognised a regular forum member , who has a reasonable collection already, would you ask them for a defence?

Im just trying to gauge when we cross the line?

Personally I have never asked for any defence from a buyer of one of my RIF’s

Edited March 17 by Enid_Puceflange

[Tackle]

3 hours ago, superwok said:

looking at sellers feedback is all fine and good, but when you want a new toy, that is extra effort. easier to buy from a retailer.

Effort is clearly an issue for you, like making the effort to play a site 3 times in no less than 56 days, not exactly difficult though ? 

(Unless your like me & for a long time couldn't find a site I liked enough to commit to🤔) 

Surely the downside to your cosplay defence is you're restricted to the limited number of retailers that accept it, & potentially screwed over on the price, compared to the relative ease of EVERY retailer accepting ukara, allowing you to shop around . 

Also, what's the situation on importing rifs on a cosplay defense. 

[Dan Robinson]

Looking at the classifieds pop up from members with zero feedback, and even less forum interaction - I am somewhat surprised at how easy it is to post an ad.  Some are blatantly from dealers/shops/not skirmishers.

Edited March 19 by Dan Robinson

[BigStew]

2 hours ago, Enid_Puceflange said:

I’m not having a pop at you, bud they are your RIF’s to sell , but…..

If you had something up for sale and you recognised a regular forum member , who has a reasonable collection already, would you ask them for a defence?

Im just trying to gauge when we cross the line?

Personally I have never asked for any defence from a buyer of one of my RIF’s

As others have said they don't check. there maybe buyers on here with perfect records who have never set foot on a site or not played in years. The chances of a prosecution happening are astoundingly low but sooner or latter it will happen. some one will sell to a brainless fuckwit who will point a RIF at a member of public and when they are arrested you bet they will squeal who the sold it to them. Don't know about every one else but having my life ruined over a toy gun is not worth the risk.

[superwok]

22 hours ago, Tackle said:

Effort is clearly an issue for you, like making the effort to play a site 3 times in no less than 56 days, not exactly difficult though ? 

(Unless your like me & for a long time couldn't find a site I liked enough to commit to🤔) 

Surely the downside to your cosplay defence is you're restricted to the limited number of retailers that accept it, & potentially screwed over on the price, compared to the relative ease of EVERY retailer accepting ukara, allowing you to shop around . 

Also, what's the situation on importing rifs on a cosplay defense. 

I have a disabled child that needs 24/7 care, the odd time I get free, I go to airsoft, so please do not assume or judge or make comments you no nothing about, effort is not a issue for me. 

[Shamal]

22 hours ago, gavinkempsell said:

I've bought a few pews from the classifieds & a few from shops, on at least 3 occasions I've ordered from a shop & in a matter of days the pew I ordered at new price has appeared in the classifieds at a much lower price... DOH!

Yep I know what you are saying.

I bought some pies from Asda and then found the same pies cheaper at Tesco. 😉

[Pseudotectonic]

To import you will need a defence, although most overseas shop probably don't accept anything other than UKARA to avoid problems

 

There is also the problem of customs, they are (probably) used to checking UKARA but not any other types of defence

[Dan Robinson]

1 hour ago, superwok said:

I have a disabled child that needs 24/7 care, the odd time I get free, I go to airsoft, so please do not assume or judge or make comments you no nothing about, effort is not a issue for me. 

 

Your case, and to a much lesser degree mine is why we need an alternative to the UKARA system.  But like I mentioned, we're very much a minority sport, and within that you and I are a minority, so options are limited.  Might be easier to get a sub category within the UKARA system to reduce fuckery with imports.

Edited March 18 by Dan Robinson

[Tackle]

16 hours ago, superwok said:

I have a disabled child that needs 24/7 care, the odd time I get free, I go to airsoft, so please do not assume or judge or make comments you no nothing about, effort is not a issue for me. 

I don't assume anything, by your own admission researching a seller is extra effort & you'd rather go to a retailer, a as I previously said, your money, your choice. 

The point being discussed, that many don't agree with, understandably, is the defence of cosplay has little bearing on airsoft, open to abuse by non airsofters, which in turn puts everything at risk for the genuine players. 

I sympathise with your situation, I too provide 24/7 care, literally day & night, to a relative, unpaid I should add, who is disabled & has dementia.

Add to that I've been receiving cancer treatment since 2021, & severe orthopaedic issues mean I currently can't climb or descend a flight of stairs unaided, so I know exactly how hard it can be to attend games, or even cope with getting around some sites.

(I'm determined to not let the health crap force me to quit) 

Cosplay would have been piss easy for me to use to buy rifs, but I don't agree with it for Airsoft rifs for all the reasons previously mentioned, maybe cosplayers and reenactors should have been made to go down the route of deacts or similar, in order to not "muddy the waters" for airsofters. 

& as has been mentioned, maybe people like you & I, who find themselves in difficult personal situations should have more flexible options for attaining a ukara defence. 

I'll put this out there as a general question, for example has anyone ever approached a site where they've started playing, but for whatever reason have had a protracted break between games, & asked the site to honour the previous games & make an allowance for the time away ?, allowing players get ukara approval. 

[concretesnail]

The ukara require 3 games in no less than given period, does it specifically state a maximum period? If it doesn't and you can show attendance beyond the minimum time surely a record of bookings is enough to obtain the defence. 

If a site has online booking them the bookings with a user account say, then the bookings themselves should serve as evidence enough for a ukara register entry.

[BigStew]

2 hours ago, concretesnail said:

The ukara require 3 games in no less than given period, does it specifically state a maximum period? If it doesn't and you can show attendance beyond the minimum time surely a record of bookings is enough to obtain the defence. 

If a site has online booking them the bookings with a user account say, then the bookings themselves should serve as evidence enough for a ukara register entry.

Never seen anything in writing but considering UKARA has to be renewed annually with in 12 months would seem the max.

[TheFull9]

The 'stated thing' floated around has always been between 3 months and 1 year; that's what I've always seen at least.  Not official like, but it seems to make sense..(within the known rules)?

[ParHunter]

On 17/03/2024 at 20:11, BigStew said:

So am I like the only person that actually asks for proof of defense for the stuff i sell? Also how is this thread still going.

 

How would you actually confirm that the UKARA number they give you is valid and not just a random number? Is there some information encoded in it? Does it have a given structure (like a VIN). Does it have a checksum or something?

[Colin Allen]

36 minutes ago, ParHunter said:

How would you actually confirm that the UKARA number they give you is valid and not just a random number? Is there some information encoded in it? Does it have a given structure (like a VIN). Does it have a checksum or something?

None of the above, apart from being a three letter site indicator followed by a  five digit number.

[Tackle]

1 hour ago, ParHunter said:

How would you actually confirm that the UKARA number they give you is valid and not just a random number? Is there some information encoded in it? Does it have a given structure (like a VIN). Does it have a checksum or something?

My understanding is there are a number of friendly retailers, such as firesupport, that are happy to confirm the validity of ukara details, including the address for delivery. 

[Jez_Armstrong]

8 minutes ago, Tackle said:

My understanding is there are a number of friendly retailers, such as firesupport, that are happy to confirm the validity of ukara details, including the address for delivery. 

GDPR would stop them from giving out or confirming an address surely?

 

only thing they can do is confirm that UKARA number belongs to the named player

[EDcase]

They will not give personal information but will confirm details you provide.

When you call you ask if a UKARA number is associated with 'name' and/or 'address' and if currently valid.

 

 

 

Edited March 19 by EDcase

[Tackle]

35 minutes ago, Jez_Armstrong said:

GDPR would stop them from giving out or confirming an address surely?

 

only thing they can do is confirm that UKARA number belongs to the named player

Your correct, I should have made it clearer, buyer approaches me & I'd ask for ukara number, linked name & address, which I can then provide to the likes of firesupport, who would confirm if it's correct & current. 

If all good, my only other requirements is to ensure the delivery address is the same, no deviation. 

Personally I've only ever done this twice, when I had concerns that the buyers were sus in some way, one turned out to be fine, his site also confirmed his regular attendance, but the other was moody af, underage & trying to use someone else's details........... He got swiftly fucked off by me & reported to the mods, ascuk if memory serves me, years ago. 

[Tommikka]

2 hours ago, Jez_Armstrong said:

GDPR would stop them from giving out or confirming an address surely?

 

GDPR requires information held to be used for the purposes for which that information was collected 

 

Using the GDPR as an excuse to not confirm details could be a breach of the GDPR in itself - particularly if the subject provided their reference details to a third party on the basis that the third party may request verification

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Jez_Armstrong said:

 

 

only thing they can do is confirm that UKARA number belongs to the named player

An address is personal data, the GDPR does not prevent the release of personal data - but to do so must be valid 
 

Technically a UKARA members address could be released, but the most practical outcome would be a query of whether or not ABC1234 matches with Joe Bloggs of 1 The Avenue.  A nice simple match would be a yes or no. Less simple would be that Joe Bloggs has moved, but that goes beyond an easy yes or no and becomes dependent on the policy under which the data was collected 

eg should it be a simple no that there isn’t a 100% match or something inbetween ?  - which probably shouldn’t be in the remit of a friendly site / retailer 

I’m sure there have been cases highlighted on this forum of issues occurring on import etc due to to customs blockage because of an import to a work address that doesn’t match the players UKARA registered address