Best Load Carrying Options to save the knees! Advice needed.

[slipperysquid]

Hi all,

With my age rapidly moving on (50) and over the years having a pretty damanding worklife I've started to develop niggles and pains I didnt have before namely my left knee!

 

I know that the main answer is to lighten my load and carry the minimum at all times which I'm looking to do going forward and even wear a knee support on game days but is there any rig that distributes weight better?

 

My firing position always favours the left leg forward so that takes the most strain, I run a battle belt with yoke and I'm just curious to whether a chest rig (Mayflower or Warrior Assault 901) would distribute the weight better?

I usually carry 4 hicap mags, 2 TRMR, pistol, bottle of BB's water bottle, pistol and two pistol mags and radio. I know this seems a lot but some of the fields I play the games go on for a long time and reverse so you can be out for well over an hour.

 

So does anyone have any ideas? or is it just a case of reduce what I carry and it doesnt matter what rig I use?

 

Thanks in advance!

Edited March 13, 2023 by slipperysquid

[Lozart]

Hey there fellow creaky knee 'softer!

 

I literally feel your pain so I would say that while a battle belt and a chest rig will distribute weight differently belt kit is widely regarded as better distribution for your body as a whole. By moving the load from your shoulders down to your hips it helps with mobility etc. That being said I tend to run almost exclusively with chest rigs. I have both a WAS 901 and a couple of Mayflower copies (UW IV and V) so in terms of reducing your overall load I'd stay clear of the 901. It's quite a bit heavier than either of the Mayflower rigs, plus it's just MOLLE so you need to factor in the weight of all the pouches you'll want to add. The UW IV is good if you only want to carry 4 mags and a few bits, the V is probably easier to load up with everything bar the kitchen sink (you'll need a rucksack for that).

 

I'd suggest that maybe keep the belt for your pistol and pistol mags and shift the rifle mags etc to a chest rig just to help spread things out a bit but the basic issue is just trying to cut down on the overall load.

 

Additionally, if you've only just started getting knee pain, maybe go see an osteopath and see if there's any exercises that could help alleviate the issue. My knee pain comes from years of cycling when I was younger which has pulled the knee cap out of line. There's exercises for it though and if I remember to do them regularly it does really help minimise the discomfort! Good footwear cannot be overemphasised either.

[slipperysquid]

Thanks so much for the reply! It really does help with my choices! The knee pain has been a long time coming. I just chose to ignore it so maybe time to visit some one and ahve it checked out! I'll take everything you've written onboard sir and update here with what I eventually went with! I agree with footware and always run high quality boots...but I suppose age catches up with all of us and now its just damage limitation

[concretesnail]

id second what lozart has said about seeing if you can find some exercises to aid with the knee. ive found over multipul reconstruction surgieries rehab never ends and continued use of the exercises as helped tremendously, im a little behind you regards age but the milage has been hard  . Regards kit, what youre carrying doesnt seem too extreme fore long games, very simialr to what i carry. What might help is moving the weight about a little. I have various rigs and found that sometimes a heavier rig balances the weight better than having it all one side/front. the warrior 901 i have wraps my waist well and keeps everything close to the body, adding the back panel and then putting a source hydration armour bladder in it was a god send. it spreads the water weight evenly over both sholuders and keeps it very close to centre mass. i have a micro rig that i use for short cqb type games but adding fluid weight that isnt well supported makes it become uncomfortable after a while.

[RostokMcSpoons]

I've had bad knees (arthritis) and ankles (easily injured) for many years.  But I've lost just a few kilos since Xmas and honestly it's been like night and day the difference it has made.  I can run up and down the stairs again. 

 

Quite happy to talk about it more offline but basically I've just done the 5:2 diet, with a 7 day attitude of cutting down on carbs, and not being very strict in the 2 days fasting after the first couple of weeks.  I quickly lost 3kg, and more slowly lost another 2, and now I'm really just maintaining it, but my fitness has improved and basically all the day to day joint pain has gone.

Edited March 13, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[Lozart]

3 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

I've had bad knees (arthritis) and ankles (easily injured) for many years.  But I've lost just a few kilos since Xmas and honestly it's been like night and day the difference it has made.  I can run up and down the stairs again. 

 

Quite happy to talk about it more offline but basically I've just done the 5:2 diet, with a 7 day attitude of cutting down on carbs, and not being very strict in the 2 days fasting after the first couple of weeks.  I quickly lost 3kg, and more slowly lost another 2, and now I'm really just maintaing it, but my fitness has improved and basically all the day to day joint pain has gone.

 

Weight loss (and the subsequent regaining of it) has made an enormous difference to my knees etc. I need to get back down to a sensible weight though, back to nearly 18 stone!

[Dan Robinson]

My dad has been on the 5:2 diet for years and he is in great shape for his age (78 this year).  He's had one knee replaced as well which has helped.

 

I'm thinking about it, but my biggest issue is booze.  I could probably use a light loadout, but i keep adding to it instead LOL.

24 minutes ago, Lozart said:

back to nearly 18 stone!

 

 

18 stone for me was a long time ago.  Think I'm around 21 - 22 stone now.

[RostokMcSpoons]

6 minutes ago, Dan Robinson said:

My dad has been on the 5:2 diet for years and he is in great shape for his age (78 this year).  He's had one knee replaced as well which has helped.

I'm thinking about it, but my biggest issue is booze. 

I said I'm cutting down carbs - I traded regular intake of my beloved chips and rice to carry on drinking beer during the 5 days - some things are too important to give up

[SSPKali]

I have found that the SADF M83* chest rig can carry 6x M4 gas mags and two BFGs and will not feel heavy or make my back complain after a days play. With 6x AEG mags in it disappears. Can be found for £50-60 if you search around. I would steer clear of the micro-chest rigs as these are fine for 3 mags and sitting in a vehicle as that was their design. Arktis chest rig (or the MoD DPM ones from a surplus store) are another good bet.

The Platac Peacekeeper Mk4/5 or other more recce rigs might be good for weigh distribution that is key. Also don't take anything out that you don't need! Mags, bangs, water (if hot / long games) and essential meds (Epi Pen, not that knock off tourniquet from Amazon PLEASE!)

 

If you can Get away with 2 Hi-Cap mags - 1 in the gun, other stuffed in a trouser pocket and some Mk5s in the other = all set

 

*Note this is NOT the M83 battle jacket / tactical waistcoat - unless your Airsoft game is going to last 3 days ?

[ak2m4]

I'm down to the standard "renters" loadout.  Often "plastic" shorty aeg with a single hi-cap mag and a bag of BB.  Knee pads essential.  I laid a bathroom floor the other week without kneepads and couldn't walk straight for a week.

[RostokMcSpoons]

52 minutes ago, ak2m4 said:

I'm down to the standard "renters" loadout.  Often "plastic" shorty aeg with a single hi-cap mag and a bag of BB.  

[Krisz]

On 13/03/2023 at 10:20, slipperysquid said:

Hi all,

With my age rapidly moving on (50) and over the years having a pretty damanding worklife I've started to develop niggles and pains I didnt have before namely my left knee!

 

I know that the main answer is to lighten my load and carry the minimum at all times which I'm looking to do going forward and even wear a knee support on game days but is there any rig that distributes weight better?

 

My firing position always favours the left leg forward so that takes the most strain, I run a battle belt with yoke and I'm just curious to whether a chest rig (Mayflower or Warrior Assault 901) would distribute the weight better?

I usually carry 4 hicap mags, 2 TRMR, pistol, bottle of BB's water bottle, pistol and two pistol mags and radio. I know this seems a lot but some of the fields I play the games go on for a long time and reverse so you can be out for well over an hour.

 

So does anyone have any ideas? or is it just a case of reduce what I carry and it doesnt matter what rig I use?

 

Thanks in advance!

Unsolicited medical advise because I've got shit knees, too.

See a physiotherapist who can stretch you properly and can give guidance regarding exercises which can and should ease your pain. It helped me a LOT. It's not cheap though.

 

Also, get some joint supplement. It may help a bit. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Krisz

[Davegolf]

9 hours ago, slipperysquid said:

Hi all,

With my age rapidly moving on (50) and over the years having a pretty damanding worklife I've started to develop niggles and pains I didnt have before namely my left knee!

 

I know that the main answer is to lighten my load and carry the minimum at all times which I'm looking to do going forward and even wear a knee support on game days but is there any rig that distributes weight better?

 

My firing position always favours the left leg forward so that takes the most strain, I run a battle belt with yoke and I'm just curious to whether a chest rig (Mayflower or Warrior Assault 901) would distribute the weight better?

I usually carry 4 hicap mags, 2 TRMR, pistol, bottle of BB's water bottle, pistol and two pistol mags and radio. I know this seems a lot but some of the fields I play the games go on for a long time and reverse so you can be out for well over an hour.

 

So does anyone have any ideas? or is it just a case of reduce what I carry and it doesnt matter what rig I use?

 

Thanks in advance!

Do you have any actual knee issues like tissue damage or previous injuries?

Or does it just feel achey and/or weak sometimes?

 

Seeing as you run long games away from the safe zone (lucky git) and you need stuff to stay hydrated and bomb up I would say a better setup would be to have a chest rig (personally love the TT MAV 2) for all your actual battle gear.

Then support that with a backpack that carries all your restock/hydro/food.

That will ditch a good 2-3kg I’d wager at least.

 

 

Cheap and most excellent, will carry everything you have described.

https://www.tactical-kit.co.uk/tactical-tailor-fight-light-mav-2-piece-23018lw-15480-p.asp

[Dan Robinson]

If you're on the larger side, and work a lot kneeling down, your cartilage is possibly goosed. 

 

Years of rugby, motor bike crashes and working as a plumber has meant both my knees have had the cartilage trimmed down and tears removed. 

 

Sometimes my left knee pops out of its joint and you can hear it go back in..... from a few metres away apparently.  Freaked the shit out of one of my new employees the other week when we were working together and he was in the next room ???. 

 

Told him that it should be a lesson to him to wear knee pads. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Dan Robinson

[TheFull9]

Unfortunately unless you strap gear to your calves the weight is the weight, as you say all you can do is lessen it.  Distribution only significantly matters for really heavy loads over prolonged periods (100L+ bergans, heavy body armour), your pelvis and down experience it the same either way essentially.

 

Barrel length and gun body material don't really matter in airsoft; get a short plastic gun (if you haven't).  A couple more plastic mid caps offers far more rounds for far less weight than your pistol + pistol mags.  I don't know about anyone else, but I always carried a gas pistol just because 'it's the done thing' for so many years and never needed it so it's mostly relegated to indoor games now.  2 TRMRs is a ton of weight but obviously big cost long term vs lighter disposable pyro.  Water of course is rather non-negotiable as is the ammo, can you stash a bag somewhere maybe?  Nylon wise, just opt for for the best and lightest you can afford (modern 500D or lighter not 1000D) that carries what you must have.  Get the lightest mags you can with plenty of capacity to minimise the quantity, maybe do some maths on rounds carried ratio to weight of all the mags carrying said rounds.

[Tommikka]

1 hour ago, Dan Robinson said:

If you're on the latter side, and work a lot kneeling down, your cartilage is possibly goosed. 

 

Years of rugby, motor bike crashes and working as a plumber has meant both my knees have had the cartilage trimmed down and tears removed. 

 

Sometimes my left knee pops out of its joint and you can hear it go back in..... from a few metres away apparently.  Freaked the shit out of one of my new employees the other week when we were working together and he was in the next room ???. 

 

Told him that it should be a lesson to him to wear knee pads. 

I discovered the ‘talent’ of being able to turn around by popping my knee out, leaving my foot facing forwards, collapsing in a heap and laying down on the ground holding my knee back together for a few minutes saying “I’m fine, f f f f f, I’m fine” and then getting up to find a convenient seat

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

I always take a holdall for food, water, bottles of BBs etc.  I only run a couple of mid-caps, 500ml water bottle and one pyro usually.  I top up the water bottle, my cloth BB bag, speedloader from the holdall.   

 

Unless it's a milsim on a massive site there's no way I'm carrying much more than that.  Most games I don't bother with a pistol either.  I can fit the lot on a battle belt with ease.  One large pouch for BBs, spare mag, speedloader.  One fast pouch thing for the other spare mag, and a bottle of water in a cheapo 8fields bottle holder.  

 

Themed loadout is chicom and 56 pattern bottle on a shoulder strap.  There aren't even pockets in black VC PJs and we do fine.  

 

Too much weight these days and arthritic bits start to complain.  

 

I do physio, but pain killers at the start of the day help.  

 

If the joints fucked, try to strengthen the muscles around it perhaps.  I did my back a few years ago.  Core strengthening helped more than physio did for me.  

[Tommikka]

@slipperysquid

That age thing is getting nearer to the wrong side of the 50s, and I’m in pretty good health if me & my doctor ignore the clapped out parts of my body 

 

Mine is partly down to the odd car & motorbike crash and also cracking my skull open as a child, but mostly is fair wear and tear

 

Hydration is mentioned above, it’s amazing how much difference that makes to recovering from a weekend.  I used to suffer around Tuesday / Wednesday (rarely on a Monday)

Which I attributed to my body telling me it can’t take what it used to, but hydration & electrolites cured those failings.

Unless I physically trash myself and then need time to recover then I’m all good

Depending on what I’m doing, I’ll try to plan ahead such as an elasticated knee support slightly loose below the knee under my jeans in the morning then pulling it up in place when doing heavy lifting.  Or with some tougher activity using a knee brace for solid support 

 

 

 

Look up Project Payne, and take note that it’s not supposed to be about funky new Virtus load carrying systems but is about carrying the right load in the optimum manner

 

https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/overburdened-infantry-soldier/

 

You will see that as equipment & gear becomes ‘lighter’ that soldiers just fill it up with more, so that a unit has in its possession everything it might possibly need, but won’t us it up 

As players we do the same, when a gun is more efficient many don’t carry enough to play one game session but just keep on carrying more which will last the day rather than reloading back in the safe zone in between

 

 

Carry less, we distributed, on a body that’s cared for properly and at best your body & health improve or at worst they don’t degrade as rapidly 

[Cannonfodder]

11 hours ago, SSPKali said:

SADF M83* chest rig

Seconded for these being a great bit of kit. I've tried different kit for lugging stuff around on the field and always end up going back to my one. They're lightweight, durable (mine's almost as old as me but in far better condition) and easily hold enough to get you through a game

 

As others have mentioned, hydration is a big factor on lessening how knackered you feel. One thing I found was that if I carry a water bottle I'll often forget to take on water till I feel thirsty which means I'm already dehydrated. For me a camelback helps as I tend to take smaller drinks more often

[Dan Robinson]

10 hours ago, Tommikka said:

I discovered the ‘talent’ of being able to turn around by popping my knee out, leaving my foot facing forwards, collapsing in a heap and laying down on the ground holding my knee back together for a few minutes saying “I’m fine, f f f f f, I’m fine” and then getting up to find a convenient seat

 

Yep... I've done the Homer Simpson spinning on the floor dance many times because of the pain and not being able to stand up.  LOL

[Tommikka]

9 hours ago, Dan Robinson said:

 

Yep... I've done the Homer Simpson spinning on the floor dance many times because of the pain and not being able to stand up.  LOL

We’re a fine example to the younger generation 

 

 

But is the best advice to try to take more care of yourself in the younger years, or just sod it as bodies fall apart anyway ?

[Davegolf]

The best advice is definitely have an active job that doesn’t involve you being in stress positions for hours every day.

Like others I’ve got one weaker knee from work, it suck’s sometimes.

Luckily I think I cottoned on to it pretty soon, and as such I make concerted effort to strengthen it by doing rucks and taking joint supplements, collagen peptides look very interesting (not the fillers, they look interesting for sure ?), but as a powder supplement, it plays a big part in joint cartilage repair which falls off a cliff naturally once in your 30s I believe.

[Tommikka]

35 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

…..collagen peptides look very interesting (not the fillers, they look interesting for sure ?),

 

 

 

Try being subtle in a corner of Waitrose car park when the guy who was bringing a prop has just called to tell you he’s ill and no longer coming, and you have about an hour before picking up another couple of guys and still need to reproduce the prop 

 

This prop being a briefcase needing to be filled with clear sandwich bags of flour

[Dan Robinson]

2 hours ago, Tommikka said:

But is the best advice to try to take more care of yourself in the younger years

 

Certainly when it comes to knees and general weight.  But then with age comes all sorts of regrets about what could have been in one's youth.  Its one of the frustrations of being a father to a grumpy teenager.

 

Mind you, I don't think the current generation of teenagers and twenty something's even know how to have real fun.  Certainly when I look back to the shenanigans I got up to some 30 years ago LOL.

 

 

[slipperysquid]

Thanks all for the replies! I do like the cosplay side of airsoft hence carrying everything but the kitchen sink My knee is looking like cartilage damage (3 weeks and still slighly swollen on the outer side) so deffo need a visit to a professional ? I'm not seriously overweight though losing a couple of pounds wouldn't go amiss (6ft 13  Stone 8 if I breath out ) . Looking at my rig and the positioning of the mags etc a lot of the weight is directly over my left knee so redistribution is on the cards I think. I use HSGI double tacos, so may switch to singles or just take two mags out. And 2 TRMR'S is just overkill I think? I have two SWAT tactical timed grenades that I gave to my lad and they are so much lighter I may have to sell the TRMR's and get a couple more of them...Still toying with the idea of the chest rig though as that should reduce the amount of stuff I carry by not giving me the space to carry it

 

Thanks again everyone for taking the time out to reply, really appreciate it!