An Interesting Take From a 'Real Steel' Perspective

[alxndrhll]

I imagine many of you have already seen this, popped up on my 'recommended' front page and it piqued my interest. My overall take away is that if the attitude of real steel companies can shift from 'looking down its nose at' to 'we can see the benefit' it'd be great for the hobby as a whole.

 

I don't personally take a lot from some of the benefits Lucas puts forward (though I do share the sentiment that I'm more into the gear side than the RIF side), it's very much a pastime for me... and I imagine many here given the practical application of 'training' outside of airsoft in this country is somewhat limited to my knowledge). Nevertheless it's pleasant to have someone involved with the real steel world not just mocking the hobby/sport/whatever we do is.
 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

way i see it airsoft could be a good stand-in for the kind of squad training that's normally done with blank fire adaptors and such.

 

it's never going to replace range time with a real rifle but i can see it being cheaper and safer for non-marksmanship based training.

[Lozart]

There's a few "names" in the firearms world that have come out in support of airsoft as a training tool recently, Lucas (T-Rex) and Travis Haley of particular note.

 

In fact Lucas has actually said that the real steel world needs to embrace the milsim/airsoft world 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJ7OVKehSzN/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Quote

 

lucastrexarms

Unpopular fact: the milsim/airsoft community would be more pro-gun and involved with real firearms if military dudes and the gun community put their egos aside and got more involved. The gun community should be focusing on groups OUTSIDE their community to boost numbers and spread education. There’s a lot of preaching-to-the-choir in the firearms/LE/MIL/trainer industry, and that’s great... but it doesn’t expand the community much.

 

[Speedbird_666]

Yeh, Travis Haley is pretty supportive of Airsoft. Plays with his sons.

 

 

[alxndrhll]

25 minutes ago, Speedbird_666 said:

Yeh, Travis Haley is pretty supportive of Airsoft. Plays with his sons.

 

 

 

I specifically remember watching this video when it came out because it was the point I found out that Krytac is Kriss (I'm aware it's not hard information to find, but I'd never had any reason to look for it). I've definitely seen Haley in support of it prior, but seemed largely on his own in that... again, granted it's not information I was out there looking for, I stumbled onto the video Lucas posted entirely by accident.

 

As hinted at, but not directly said, in my initial post I'm not overly arsed what others make of what I choose to do in my spare time. Just very much saw it as a 'this is refreshing' versus the usual throw away 'lul airsoft' statements which often come from the 'gun guy' YouTube crowd. For reference I tend to watch more of the real steel YouTube stuff than I do airsoft stuff, no disrespect intended toward some of the airsoft content creators out there... but the lions share of it is hot garbage and so steeped in bias that it offers no real useful information to me as a potential buyer, nor entertainment. But that's a whole other topic to this one.

 

If real steel companies become more interested in making replica stuff for airsoft purposes I'm all for it, if this sort of thing gets us closer to that then ace. If not, I'll get over it.

[hitmanNo2]

I've never understood the snobby attitude that some in the RS world of both the US and UK have towards airsoft.  At the end of the day, a significant % of people that get into airsoft (in the US at least) will migrate to RS when age and/or funds allow which will then bolster that community.  And considering Biden and his team are vehemently anti gun, they're going to have an uphill battle and need all the support they can get.

[Adolf Hamster]

2 minutes ago, alxndrhll said:

the lions share of it is hot garbage and so steeped in bias that it offers no real useful information to me as a consumer, nor entertainment. But that's a whole other topic to this one.

 

oh cmon that's not fair. @Tackle 's expansive array of creative nicknames for kicking mustang is good for at least 20 minutes of entertainment.

1 minute ago, hitmanNo2 said:

I've never understood the snobby attitude that some in the RS world of both the US and UK have towards airsoft. 

 

i think it's a case of drawing conclusions based on watching youtube videos on airsoft rather than actually playing it.

 

i have been asked why i don't bother with the RS stuff to which my standard reply is that i like the challenge of a target that can shoot back.

[Tackle]

13 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

oh cmon that's not fair. @Tackle 's expansive array of creative nicknames for kicking mustang is good for at least 20 minutes of entertainment.

TBH I can't take the glory for that nickname, pretty sure @Skara came up with it, very apt though lol

[alxndrhll]

30 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

oh cmon that's not fair. @Tackle 's expansive array of creative nicknames for kicking mustang is good for at least 20 minutes of entertainment.

 

Haha, I wasn't actually referring to the 'gameplay' channels. I get zero enjoyment from squinting to try and see a video capture of a BB moving toward someone, only to have a video game hit marker and sound cover up what's actually happening. Truth to be told I only tend to watch things which are airsoft related when hunting for information on something I'm looking to buy (which I've largely stopped also, because QA isn't something which exists in airsoft, so it's a waste of time alongside the bias).

 

[TheFull9]

Lucas is what you get if you take a kid that has the attitude of loving everything tacticool and would end up airsofting if they were in most other countries, but at a young age they get a high paying job quite high up in a very successful company started by a rich family and live in America so have comparatively easy access to the fun guns - said kid also probably first took interest in tactical stuff around the time the Magpul DVDs were all the rage.  Not a dig, only met him very briefly once, just a likely course of events.

 

Airsoft mostly does a terrible job presenting itself online these days which doesn't help, though it's never been great.  Only takes one unfortunately awkward selfie of an overweight player in some weird pose with their first loadout or a delusion milsimmer to go viral around the gun pages/accounts and the stereotypes cements itself further.  In the US there's a lot more guns than people we know that, I don't have a stat for the amount of airsoft weapons that exist CONUS but it'll definitely be a shit load less; apart from anything airsoft has existed far less time than firearms.  So you can easily see given what people will be exposed to why they end up taking the viewpoints that they do.

 

I think, overall, the worlds are veeeery slowly merging and crossing over to a greater extent, have been the past 20 years or so, but it's a mega slow process.  Most of the legit instructors and large online presences are reticent to mention it though and tend to use the term to reference very low grade parts/accessories.

[OneShot]

I find the view on airsoft really depends on the individuals and the type of live-round shooting they are involved in.

 

Generally people I have met who are involved in practical shooting skills such as close-protection, have a favourable view on airsoft as it allows them and clients to train on specific scenarios cheaply and without running any risks. There are a few companies within the UK that run their close protection/CQB courses using airsoft guns before progressing onto real steel in order to get the clients drilled and the muscle memory obtained. Other places that don't utilise airsoft tend to use UTM munitions which are pretty cool.

 

Like it has already been said, people gather their views based on what is on the internet (i.e. Youtube) and this isn't the best representation of everyone in airsoft.

[TheFull9]

Sorry but that is not the case let's not spread misinformation here.  UTM:

 

 

The projectile part is definitely nothing like a normal/typical FMJ bullet.

[OneShot]

Apologies, I didn't really want to delve into the make up of UTM as its a bit more complicated than I cared to write in the post. My example was poor so was edited out.

 

 

[Druid799]

Over the years I’ve come across quite a few squaddies and Plod that came to the sport with a VERY negative preconception of what to expect who by the end of the day (some even by end of the 1st game!) had done a complete about face with there attitude to it and if it could be useful as part of there training regimens . As an RM said to me during a lunch break who’d come for his baby brother’s birthday “I REALLY didn’t want to come today but have to say I’ve never had a target shoot back at me before ! I’m f**king buzzing !” 🤣

I think Airsoft is just like any thing else that could enhance your training , you just need to find the right way to use it .

[Adolf Hamster]

3 hours ago, alxndrhll said:

Haha, I wasn't actually referring to the 'gameplay' channels. I get zero enjoyment from squinting to try and see a video capture of a BB moving toward someone, only to have a video game hit marker and sound cover up what's actually happening. Truth to be told I only tend to watch things which are airsoft related when hunting for information on something I'm looking to buy (which I've largely stopped also, because QA isn't something which exists in airsoft, so it's a waste of time alongside the bias).

 

Ahh yes, the good ol' airsoft review:

1. Open up the box, take a minute to talk about what its made from while showing some sweeping close-ups.

2. Spend 15 minutes talking about the controls, how ambi freindly they are, and listing every rail mounting point on the gun.

3. Show 3 bb's being fired through a chrono

4. 30 seconds of accuracy "testing" on an indoor range no more than 10m long, remember to shoot off-hand at a cardboard box and not say what ammo your using.

5. Declare it the best thing ever and remember not to say anything bad in case the manufacturer stops sending you stuff to test.

 

Meanwhile i'm left asking "yes but whats the box like? Has it a qd spring? Are there any proprietary parts and if there are are they at least decent? Are there any quirks to dissassembly? Etc etc"

 

Or the other "i 'review' my big youtube buddy's latest product (honest review guvnor)" types.

 

Meanwhile i've had a gun i want to review for some time but i'm refusing to do so until i see if rs furniture fits.

[CrackCommandoUnit1972]

42 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

Ahh yes, the good ol' airsoft review:

1. Open up the box, take a minute to talk about what its made from while showing some sweeping close-ups.

2. Spend 15 minutes talking about the controls, how ambi freindly they are, and listing every rail mounting point on the gun.

3. Show 3 bb's being fired through a chrono

4. 30 seconds of accuracy "testing" on an indoor range no more than 10m long, remember to shoot off-hand at a cardboard box and not say what ammo your using.

5. Declare it the best thing ever and remember not to say anything bad in case the manufacturer stops sending you stuff to test.

 

Meanwhile i'm left asking "yes but whats the box like? Has it a qd spring? Are there any proprietary parts and if there are are they at least decent? Are there any quirks to dissassembly? Etc etc"

 

Or the other "i 'review' my big youtube buddy's latest product (honest review guvnor)" types.

 

Meanwhile i've had a gun i want to review for some time but i'm refusing to do so until i see if rs furniture fits.

 

Airsoft reviewers should watch a hickok45 video to learn how to review a gun without sending people to sleep.

[Hami]

I've been watching a lot of T-rex arms and Garand Thumb etc. due to lockdown boredom and it's nice to see them bringing airsoft into the real steel world.  

with ammo shortages in the US i've seen a lot of people moving over to airsoft to train with. I do feel like trex arms is training for the government collapse and/or invasion of the US... 

[Druid799]

18 hours ago, CrackCommandoUnit1972 said:

 

Airsoft reviewers should watch a hickok45 video to learn how to review a gun without sending people to sleep.

He’s brilliant ! He’s not afraid at all to rip the shit out of anything , and you just know if someone came up to him and said “do a good review of my shit product and I’ll pay you lots” he'd go “ok” do it , then tell you what happened ! 🤣🤣

[Davegolf]

Yeh @alxndrhll they guy that came over from the Far East definitely opened some eyes to the merits of dry training / airsoft.

 

Especially when most of Americans shoot the softest shooting rifles available on the planet!

 

I enjoy Garand vids, this one is quite a laugh; 

 

They touch on the airsoft as a training option especially with the ammunition restrictions they had/have at the time.

 

@Adolf Hamster couldn’t agree more with your review of airsoft reviews lol, I find myself scanning through, pausing and zooming in to try and get some of the useful info - how is that attached - how is that routed - what is the hopup like etc etc

 

[John_W]

A bit of rehearsal and maybe a script might help. Throw in some decent lighting and sound. 

Khan Seb was a great favourite of mine, and although he is a little irritating, Airsoft Mike isn't bad either.

[Tackle]

3 minutes ago, John_W said:

Airsoft Mike isn't bad either.

Is that the black guy who runs around the house in full tactical gear & is very excited, like he's on speed lol 😳

[John_W]

He does indeed.

But we don't get five minutes of "um, this is the box and now, er, I am going to open it and we'll this is the instructions and you have some BBs and a charger and these safety instructions" 

[lilredmachine]

On 21/01/2021 at 14:03, John_W said:

He does indeed.

But we don't get five minutes of "um, this is the box and now, er, I am going to open it and we'll this is the instructions and you have some BBs and a charger and these safety instructions" 

Do we watch the same Airsoft Mike? 😂 The bloke pays more attention to the box than most, and I never tire of 5 minutes of video showing every single trade in minute detail. 

 

Not to mention 3 shots through a chrono and an accuracy 'test' on a 10m range pretty much describes his channel perfectly. I'm also pretty certain the only real time I've seen him be negative about something is when it has totally failed to shoot. Anyone who manages to positively review a Valken AVP17 must have taken a blow to the head as a child. 😂 

 

In all fairness his production quality is great and his on camera personality is absolutely unique and awesome, and I enjoy the shit out of his videos. He also reviews some genuinely interesting weapons that aren't just the newest M4 with some small differences to the last M4. Top channel. I just find myself going through that list and ticking them pretty much all with regards to his channel. 😂

[MiK]

@alxndrhll I’ve been watching Lucas for a while he has a really good video up when his gun club brought over a Japanese air softer showing how well a airsofter would take up real steel - he has some serious skill

 

 

[CrackCommandoUnit1972]

3 hours ago, MiK said:

@alxndrhll I’ve been watching Lucas for a while he has a really good video up when his gun club brought over a Japanese air softer showing how well a airsofter would take up real steel - he has some serious skill

 

 

Unless they have a dual at High Noon, I always wonder what these guys are training for.