Sitting Duck

Building a great perfect box is not as easy as we all first think The gearbox shell's can vary so much for a start and the front of the gearbox can vary in thickness (I don't have a King Arms box) I'm sure I have an old VFC v2 which is 3.1mm thick at front and a D-Boys spare shell measures 2.65mm - does this matter - YES coz that 0.45mm means nozzle is projecting more or less into the hop resulting in a good seal but possible poor feeding or reliable feeding but loss of fps (though must state there are numerous other factors as well for poor feeding/seals etc... but nozzle lengths do matter) On top of that the red shs nozzle is one of the more longer M4 nozzles and people have found feed issues in some builds 7mm bearings - hmm ok if they are good quality ones and shimming is dogz nutz but may crap out over time - bushings are best or at least bushings under gears if piston is a shs blue metal full rack either complete or already lightened to f*ck - nice piston either way piston head - hopefully not metal one with bearing as it adds weight but suppose not too bad as shs blue full rack's are quite light (if you have a bearing on piston head - please ffs make sure you used threadlock on it - they WILL undo no matter how tight you tighten) After correcting AoE with sorbo/neoprene - which you should/must correct the rest of box seems very nice - but think a delay clip is wise The issue with feeding/double feed/cycling.... 7.4v should be ok - double cycling can take place on 11.1v and risk of PE The double firing issue is usually not quite double firing but more a case of it misfiring/part-jam then another bb is loaded which emits 2 bb's at once giving the impression of double firing eg: 1 - 1 - 0 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 2 bb's come out the end This is likely to be either the nozzle not clearing enough to allow a bb to feed into hop 101% everytime or bucking/bucking lips catching on bb or being a bit tight or tappet spring being way too weak etc....... test bb will pass the bucking lips with light moderate assistance (thin screwdriver pushing into hop nub) new tappet spring or lop a couple of coils off to increase the return force/speed Shs tappet plates usually are very good at pulling back but mat still need a delay or some other modding check operation - but think the nozzle itself "might" be a smidge too long perhaps for this build..... Before you go too nutz on this that n the other it seems you have more of a feeding problem than double cycling as first thought I suggest forget SS for the moment, stay on 7.4v and get you feeding issue sorted first at say 24rps once the gun is firing ok reliable and little variation - then and only then consider faster options The saying - Trying to run before you can walk springs to mind... It is very tricky - bloody very tricky getting a gun to fire faster and still feed great and last but in stages you may be able to make steady progress and achieve a nice performing improved gun which eventually after a lot of stress cursing and god knows how many times you opened her up... if/when you do get there you kinda feel like..... soz but meaning to add a couple of funny's I'm chiming out as Rock-climby-Dave is bound to be far more experienced than me who is still fumbling my way though

hang on guys - think it's started to rain - abort abort.... btw - I'm a girl's blouse anyway

FFS - test the gun on 7.4v first !!!!! 13:1 gearset + shs torque all fetted/deans/16awg etc.... you should be hitting about 25rps aprox on 7.4v 25c with a shs torque NOW if you shove in 11.1v with shs motor you should hit another 50% nearly 35 to 37rps - before you get all excited and stuff a warning....... m100 spring guns: as you get to 25rps guns start to over run a bit more and close to double fire on non ab fets even if AB kicks in to stop this over run - DO NOT THINK you can continue to push it more safely as gun starts to fire at 30rps the risk of Pre Engagement greatly increases More dangerous is when you have a full metal piston in there and not ultra light either (lighter pistons release/return a little quicker and help to avoid PE but don't mean you can keep going nutz) So if you connect up a beefy or even moderate 11.1v lipo on a m100 UK gun and pull trigger..... You may - well quite likely hit PE at 35rps plus as this takes place - a plastic toothed piston will usually just strip to bits and limit further failures However - on a full metal rack piston there is no weak point - solid metal motor pinion to gearset to metal tooth piston This can result in a bigger crunch and numerous metal teeth smashing f*ck out of each other inside The Short Stroke setup is required for normal 350fps guns trying to shoot at 30rps+ shorter piston stroke and stronger spring returning a light piston means the piston avoids getting smashed at high speeds though to be fair at 30rps you will probably need a delay clip if feeding becomes a problem (likely depending on mags used) Many of us have learnt the hard way when pushing guns too fast please check stuff first on 7.4v like I said and maybe stay at a steady 25rps aprox unless you do your homework going too nutz may result in.......

my guess is you have used a regular spring - m100-ish and are approaching aprox 25rps so she is overunning - double firing (or say 20rps on a weak/used spring of about m90 strength) This is quite normal - gun is running faster and failing to slow/stop very quickly your options are 1- stay on lower volts - easy one that 2 - if using a mosfet then use a mosfet with active braking as this reverses the polarity for a split second as trigger is released thus slowing the motor very very quickly - but can make motor run warmer due to the slight increase in stress 3 - on higher speed guns "Short Stroking" is performed This means fitting a heavier spring - say m120 which means the fps would be too high but to compensate for this some of the sector gear's teeth (at beginnng) ar removed So the higher spring is only pulled back say 85% of the way to obtain a more moderate fps The tension of the m120 slows the faster running gun very quickly and over spin is greatly reduced This is the way many mofo's setup higher speed guns... you barrel length needs to be a moderate length to still achieve the correct air volume ratio but unless you are running a 400+ barrel you should be able to short stroke or SS 2 or 3 teeth on a m120 spring (piston must be say 3 or 7 metal teeth as the last tooth used must be metal on release) get gun chrono'd at tell us the fps and rps delayer is only for feeding issues at higher speeds - don't stop over spin

anyone will fit ccw - counter clock wise 14mm the FH flash hider is friggin' loud - gets on ya nerves a bit all day long (especially inside - and I reckon it very very easy for others to pinpoint exactly where you are in woodland) wouldn't say it ugly - well if it is - then with the duck beak amplifier you could call it the ugly duckling but seen much worse looking guns - but guess beauty is in the eye of the holder as they say though I quite like 'em as it was my first RIF I bought (please tell me you didn't get the HC05) other noisy mofo's: other options baby tiny 60mm suppresor though won't do much: http://www.actionhobbies.co.uk/Swiss-Arms-Stubby-Silencer-60-x-32-CCW_AZE5F.aspx#.VouLUbaLSt9 normally they are about 100mm to 150mm ish on that short front end go nutz and it really looks silly with a 250mm one on there

you can use the old spring - cut off the "hook" where it clips onto the spring lock That metal spring lock can weigh up to 7.5gms - so lose it The spring will now be compressed about 9mm less than it was originally once removed correcting AoE will lessen the piston stroke by about 4mm... but if adding a bearing spring guide then that adds 5mm to spring's starting spring compression (so AoE & bearing spring kinda cancel each other out - soft of) BUT you will still be that spring lock's 9mm out so think the old spring will be ok (might have been a m100/110 poor seals/port plus if been there a while lost a bit of power as all springs lose a bit over time) you can use a std spring guide if ya that worried and if say only shooting 300fps then adding a bearing spring guide after testing will bring up fps by aprox 15fps Alas you can try to use Mr Spock's best calculated vulcan "guess" in the whole universe.. but at the end of the day the real test is when you simply "suck it & see" as so many many variables to predict even 99% accurately

ya barrel length is 400mm to 500mm so port will be either port very near back or full cylinder in anycase the rof shouldn't drop massive coz it was still having to pull spring back all the way ?? (unless it was short stroked a few teeth - the spring still fully compressed) if you wish - see if you can weigh the complete piston assembly ideally no bearing to save weight not an alloy piston head - plastic/pom one piston can be swiss cheesed a bit but tbh only normally shaves off 2 to 2.5gms the bearing can weigh more so drop that if complete piston weighs in under 20gms that ain't bad lighter piston returns quicker and can help avoid PE and minor slight boost in fps than a sluggish piston but it is how smooth and how good the little bits n bobs all move and fitted together that is what makes a good box really

ahh that might help if was nearly a full cylinder - say 7/8th type 1 for 400mm or full type 0 for 500mm.... add cylinder on list coz it ain't scratched its got a friggin massive hole in it

if she is doing 23rps on 7.4v that is good mofo neodym motor in there soz thought she was running on weak ferrite one

madbull barrel - hold up hmmm, bit overated/priced imho clean old one and just check bucking first change barrel n stuff later if needed but check bucking/replace is cheap check out semi problem unsure if she is failing to fire electrics wise - contacts or mechanically wise - cut off, switch or selector or varying fps - was a bit vague fps issue is most likely seals plus possible bucking torn etc... Silent piston/head - yeah maybe if you wish but stock one might be ok as is but use a sorbothane/neoprene mix when doing AoE will reduce piston slapping correcting AoE will drop you 10-15fps so a bearing spring guide will claw it back good seals yes but check everything once you got box apart cylinder scratched - replace, polish it using silicone, soak good fitting piston o-ring in it too ensure piston head has good vent holes - 6 to 8 about 2mm to help seal quickly on release cylinder head ptfe tape or replace if still not happy with double o-ring type polishing inside box - don't have to go nutz just ensure the bits that move are smooth eg: piston rails, tappet, switch itself, cut off lever moves freely etc..... just time more than money is what works best money saved can be used for bits n bobs if/when needed after doing a good overhaul/service eg: new motor or barrel once box and fps is running better best of luck

well spotted sir yup not ALL Cyma's & JG's are built with metal boxes they do make terrible (why bother - low power plinkers) https://bbguns4less.co.uk/products/broken-faulty-cm-023-mp5-electric-semi-automatic-aeg-bb-gun.html https://bbguns4less.co.uk/products/broken-faulty-jg-239-electric-semi-automatic-ak-47-aeg.html

MP5 - standard "block" type battery aprox 8.4v oops - thought it was mp5 - then briefly thought it was G3 nope mags say its mp5 - jjeeezz get it right duck measure the available space and buy a battery connector is a small/mini tamya no it ain't by the looks of it weird - got a better shot of connector where did ya get this ??? was this some JBBG low power AEG or something ??? coz battery connector looks very low amp/power from pic

OK - this is getting beyond silly now (even by my standards) I'm off out to a dinner/dance event with outlaws (they are paying so wtf) just an upmarket pi$$ up truth be told Happy New Year you lot 2016 - I have told missus I will act more mature and responsible yeah that resolution won't last - especially if its a free bar

SERIOUSLY Can this thread get any further off topic it is further off than North Pole ffs

my wife: Mrs Duck from Dartford 2013 I love the title " Wild Ride " wheeeyy heeey down boyy phwarrrrr

She is the boss, the brains, the peacemaker, my soulmate I just go with the flow - It is a partnership and all that crap besides - nobody in my house takes a blind bit of notice of me they all go to mum - I only get asked/informed of stuff, so that if/when it goes wrong Well we did tell/ask you about it.....

7.4v lipo 25c or 30c 13:1 will get you about 26 - 27 on VERY THICK 16 awg wire, mosfet deans etc.... 12:1 will get you near 30's....... additional boosts depend on using very fast torquey motors like Big Dragon M160 SHS torque is not quite as fast but close and easier to get hold of other crazy motors like G&P Satan I can't comment on not even got a Lonex motor Speed motors get very very hot pushing past m100 springs - so don't think of a shs high speed some torque motors are not much faster than stock ferrite motors but designed for pulling crazy mofo springs m150+ even frankentorque motors are not ultra quick - just ultra strong bushings are a must in high rof but will be slower than bearings - 5 to 8% ceramics offer speed & strength but jeez not cheap and still mofo builds need bushings under spur gear the choice of neodym motor can make a big difference but it can only unleash its full power if all the wiring homework is done - often a dremmel to squeeze in thick wire the box will just die quicker - much quicker unless you get EVERYTHING as close to perfection as possible (not easy) plus after all that crap - you can still find it feeds crap coz it needs a stiffer tappet spring to load bb's quicker etc.... it is a MASSIVE learning curve and no I am no expert - just broke LOADS taking the pi$$ if you wanna go nutz - do it in stages is my advice read: http://www.airsoftsociety.com/forums/f10/legacys-guide-building-high-speed-aeg-87504/ go easy and take your time try to learn to walk before you try and run later builds will be much better than your first few attempts - well mine were $hite overcoming problems - learning from mistakes etc.... airsoft teching is no way as easy as them youtube vids look and still I think there is a sprinkle of luck required (or loads of luck in mine & many others builds)

Behind every good man - stands a good woman... And behind every good woman - stands another man clocking her ar$e I just call my wife - Yes Dear

oooh heck - I don't reckon your one.... so don't get too drunk tonight or you might wake up with something you may regret

12:1 gears SS 3 or 4 teeth can get about 30rps on 7.4v lipo if done well with a m115/120 get into 40's on 11.1v and with a 3or4 SS setup you got volume for most barrels to lift stuff dsg can or should start at near 40 or what's the point ??? the faster gun cycles in general more friction/heat/wear/strain mini hammer drills banging away etc.... plus faster you go - more of your mag collection won't feed so well unless high quality hi caps or mid-caps trust me it is not easy getting a gun to fire faster but still shoot well AND last http://www.airsoft-forums.co.uk/index.php/topic/25944-g-g-fire-hawk-firehawk-hc05-dsg/#entry194945 its bollox and I know it won't last so only been out once or twice for giggles I stick in mid 20's usually

how fast do you really wanna go (please don't say trigger response coz you can always get gun precocking) 20 is average to good rof 30 is going some 40 is everybody on a UK field calling you a show off or a c**t yes it can be done but m140/150 spring - dmr mofo or mega short stroke/dsg bollox ???

yup I'd say so or shs torque but jeez wtf you wanna buy them expensive mofo's for ? think shs 12:1 would do and if not enough go for 11.1v Seigtek 10:1 are 10.44 actual ratio SHS 12:1 are 12.65:1 and should assist in getting the balance right (good response without the motor's nutz falling off) plus shs motor + shs gears mesh very nicely together

FFFFFFFffffffforget Yoda... its Neo from the Matrix: ps - luv the shades

I like the mini or stubby fixed stocks as not a long armed gorilla myself fixed stocks mean almost any battery can go in there even a mars bar on full stock when you change to crane stock then you need thin stick or nunchuck batteries and if going for magpul type or the G&G GOS-V1 or V2 the battery goes in stock tube (which really limits battery options) but nicey nicey adjustable stocks so you can't always have it all

From the sounds of it you got a M4 carbiney thingy majigy poohs 363mm barrel- ish running to rear with maybe a full size stock - black or painted 2-tone ??? if that is the case on the rear stock part you will need stock tube and then magpul copy or crane adjustable stock I think if the full size stock is a tad too long then a stubby M4 stock perhaps - but still be a 363mm front end not much wrong with that though normally you may have a stubby-ier m4 using up to a 275/300 barrel max still don't matter - its your gun do what you like..... But like I said the front end can/could be a ball-ache like jcheeseright said plus the adapting of the rear end too..... if its actually working even in its thrown together mish mash form - so what ? if anything - see if you can get some of the other bits n bobs running or flog the bits and save time/money getting another starter gun that nearly ticks all your boxes know your limits, learn what you can easily change and more importantly what you can not (or in other words - don't make a bigger headache for yourself) post a pic up - seriously its gotta be better than my Bulldog B500A1 it sounds like an old R20 or R21 - made by Well which me thinks is a low end JG brand of M4