Adolf Hamster

see i can understand that, you see the reverse with folk in black outdoors, it's just the crossover between majority indoor/outdoor players having a dabble at the other side but can't be bothered buying new kit just to play indoors/outdoors. cmon man, moaning about things we don't like is a national institution

that was my point, fps on 0.2j is a joule measurement, just in confusing units that make it seem like it isn't. the reason it's taken so long is because there's not much agreement in chrono standards, for example hop on or off, player weight or site weight, quote limits in fps or j, and sites generally can't be bothered putting too much effort into it, much easier to just remember a number. i've lost count of the number of times i've had to explain that no, my gun is not shooting low, it's heavy ammo, especially when they've set the weight on the chrono and are reading the fps figure (which is always a raw figure of the velocity measurement) rather than the calculated joule figure.

so premise of this is what things in airsoft do you not "get", and why? i'll start off with a couple- patches- i really don't get it, especially people who seem to collect them and get properly excited when they see a new patch. doubly so when you see people using the patches you get with bits of kit like airsoft innovations or gate products or from sites. painting desert camo- i'm not a fan of painting stuff in general, but i can get why folk would want to paint camo to make a gun more concealable, or painting crazy designs as an artistic expression, but painting desert camo just confuses me because you're not really getting any artistic benefit (no more than painting it an appropriate woodland camo) but you are making the gun stand out. note i'm not counting people doing it as part of a specific impression loadout, that's understandable. the kriss vector- not the gun in general or why people would use it, but why they're all so unreasonably heavy, seriously are they making those things out of depleted uranium or something? revolvers- or more correctly how anyone can fire one and not be immediately dissapointed......

f2000's will do that no matter what magazine you use. it's a pacifists gun....

i see a sales post for a trilux monocular? the pictures have a 3d printed mock up next to it but it's not mentioned in the post text?

while were at it where's @Sitting Duck

you know fps is a measurement of velocity not energy right? when we use the term fps in airsoft what's actually meant is fps on a 0.2g bb and that latter part is what makes it a convoluted way of stating energy, who's SI unit is joules...... the reason velocity is the thing people use is because that's what chronographs measure/display, and the reason it's feet per second rather than metres per second is the same (read: dumb) reasons we buy petrol in litres, milk in pints, sugar in kilos and steak in oz because the uk is stuck in measurement system purgatory.

indeed, i'd wager an awful lot of bb brands don't manufacture their own, i remember it mentioned at some point there's something like only 3 companies that actually do the manufacturing, but put a massive citation needed next to that statement. yep, and more than once have i "fixed" feeding problems by doing nothing more than emptying the magazine and refilling it with different ammo. wether or not you're happy for a gun to be fussy about what ammo you give it is ofc another personal preference decision, eg i'm happy knowing i can't just buy any old random site bb's and expect them to work at least passably.

yep, quality is a very big factor. not just in terms of dimensional/finish consistency but also weight consistency. which is yet another factor of how gun X might shoot better on 0.28g rather than 0.32g even if both bb's are from the same brand, as they're likely at least different production lines if not entirely different oem's. and how adaptable a gun is to being fed bad food is another factor that can trade with out and out performance. funny really how a bunch of relatively simple systems can get insanely complex when they're put together.

tbh i'd have rather they just had an ammo limit, eg you get 500 rounds for the day but how you use them is up to you. can put them all in one hicap or spread it out over a bunch of low-caps and refill mid-game but you still only get 500 rounds. means you're not forcing folk to buy mags of any given config. then just raise the ammo limit for boxfed guns based on weight- heavier your gun is the more ammo you're allowed so if you've got a drumfed arp you only get 500 rounds like everyone else but if you're lugging a pkp then you can carry ten times that. but ofc that's not that easily enforceable (folk will just hide bags of extra bb's) and it'll all fall apart after the first few hours when folk have emptied their allowance and are complaining that they can't shoot any more.

yes i can see your point. as i mentioned everything is a trade off, and reliability is a factor that i personally rarely consider. but you make a good point that by not pursuing the peak of performance you're gaining longevity. ultimately it's a case of how happy a person is with that balance, for example my view is i'd rather have the performance and accept the higher maintenance that entails, at least within reasonable limits (eg how i mentioned bulged nozzles in pistols). absolutely, for example with my playstyle i always had trouble with intermediate range- too far to hip fire and too close to take your time, that kind of snap shooting is where i tend to fail miserably. not familiar with PBR as a term (i'm guessing it's not "patrol boat river" ) but going by the context of it meaning something like "practical battle range" i'd say it's very personal in terms of what a given person is happy with. my viewpoint is the better the gun shoots, the more opportunities it opens up, eg when you only have a foot poking out of cover, or the other guy is shooting through a small window, plus it's less infuriating to miss from your own lack of marksmanship than the hardware failing you. there are folk who scoff at the notion of trying to go down the route of maximizing range arguing along the lines of "just get closer", and that has it's own logic. but you bring what your good at to this game and every bit of pew performance i can leverage means i can get away with not having to run quite as fast or hide quite as well, which for someone as pathologically lazy as me is exactly the ticket. yep, and if you're going to the extremes then that can impose its own limitations, you end up having to decide which aspect of performance is more important to you. it's like choosing a mk23 over [generic gbb pistol], you're trading the feel of the gbb and snappier response for reliability, precision & silence. or choosing to hpa- you're trading the hatred of your peers for bb lobbing performance or choosing gbbr- you're trading performance for feel. none of these choices are inherently wrong, and it's a good thing that we have such variety to choose what we want to prioritize.

its a system that can get rather complicated. from a purely physics perspective (ie ignoring the gun), a bb with X energy, given the correct amount of backspin for its weight, will go further the heavier it is, which is what the spreadsheet @SSPKali linked to is all about. there's a site online which i forget the name of goes much much much further down the rabbit hole. however that isn't strictly the whole argument if you apply it to an aeg and there are scenarios where other factors start to drift in. the crucial thing is assuming that the energy is constant and backspin is magically acheived without affecting energy. the first issue is the amount of backspin, the energy, and how this is linked. to take a simplistic example lets say a gun can spin a 0.2g correctly and fires a perfect 1J with the hop set to 25% on. we swap out to 0.25g we need to set the hop to 35% on, the extra resistance from the hop nub being further in drops the energy to 0.8j then we try 0.3g, with the hop set to 60% on, the energy then drops to 0.6j try it with 0.4g and there's so much resistance it won't even fire. how much the energy drops in order to spin a given ammo weight is dependent on hop design, hence why the likes of maple leaf rubbers, s hops, r hops etc are a thing, they're trying to give the bb more spin whilst taking less energy to do so, usually through a larger but longer contact patch, softer grippier compounds etc. what's fun is i've even seen dual "sweet spots", where if you start from zero and dial in the hop you'll meet that point of perfect hop, but keep going and you can do it a second time where the over-hop and energy drop converge again to lift the round properly, of course the lower energy results in much lower range. the next hurdle is volume, a heavier bb is going to spend longer in the barrel and have higher back pressure, so every source of air leak (including the gap around the bb in the barrel) is going to leak more air, kinda like the reverse of joule creep (where more time spent in the barrel means picking up more energy in systems that are pressure fed and not volume limited). this is dependent on a lot of factors but assuming "perfect" air seal both having a longer barrel or wider bore will add to this issue whereas a shorter barrel and tighter bore will do the reverse. this is more relevant for dmr platforms where folk both have long barrels and want to use heavy ammo in a system with a fixed maximum volume (and hence why you tend not to short-stroke dmr length guns). so a gun that's built properly (by design or chance) to lob 0.25's may well be worse if you move to 0.3's, but that doesn't mean a gun built properly to lob 0.4's isn't going to be better. and that's before we start talking about the difference between absolute range (ie how far the bb is capable of going) and effective range (ie how far you can aim, fire and hit a target). when it comes to the latter even things like optics, the size/weight of the gun, trigger response, and skill of the shooter start playing serious factors. for example i stopped running the super heavies in pistols not because the range was any better on the lighter ammo but because it was still better than my capability to shoot with a handgun and you weren't changing bulged nozzles every other magazine. same as how it's pointless running heavy ammo in cqb because accuracy/range is not the deciding factor for getting hits. problem is that's focusing on only part of the system, bb weight absolutely is a factor alongside airseal (read: fps consistency), volume and energy. to take an automotive example, you could fit the engine from an f1 car in a vw golf and put lewis hamilton behind the wheel, but he won't be winning the championship, hell even if you put a more powerful engine in he still won't win because the rest of the system isn't good enough to take advantage of the strongest element. not just the hop. tm's "magic" isn't just one thing being excellent (as much as we like to joke about the tm hop fairies), it's everything being a good match for everything else in a world where one part not properly fitting another is the norm. permitting myself a little "luke" moment; tm's are very well put together for the energy they do but it is somewhat curious how whilst the ~0.8j of a tm is commonly reported to outrange everything, many recoil owners feel the need to crack open their pews and fill them with the contents of the prometheus catalogue, likewise the mighty mk23 with its legendary range gets the maple leaf+hadron treatment, the vsr gets filled with PDI, the MWS gets filled with whatever the hell mws people fill their guns with etc.

wonder what the difference with the cheaper version is, maybe internals? it's impossible to tell from the pics if they've cut any corners on the externals, looks pretty much like an e&l, which is a good thing because imo they're the nicest commonly available ak (not counting real sword basically). if you like wood and blued steel then you won't be disappointed. fyi as a general rule most airsoft akm variants tend not to have siderails but pretty much all the ak74 variants will, you can however get an aftermarket rail and bolt it on the side. the platinum versions internal wise are very good, about the only thing that you'd want to consider changing is the hop rubber as they tend to be a bit on the hard side (and that's me being nit-picky), but apart from that and maybe being a bit slow on 7.4v (respectable on 11.1v). it's on a short list of guns (sitting alongside the likes of the scorpion evo) of guns i'd be happy to skirmish completely stock (granted i modded all the ones i've had but i'm a lost cause at this point). no mosfet, but that's a criticism you could level at a lot of guns. of course the internals may well be where they've cut the cost, which would make sense for folks (like me) for whom good enough isn't good enough and insist on yeeting all the internals in a quest to squeeze every last drop out of their pews no matter how good they were to begin with so ironically it's maybe aimed precisely at folks who don't care how well it shoots out of the box. ^with perfect timing to prove my point the cm045 (well, any of the metal bodied cyma range) is the kind of gun that's hard to argue with, not just as a starter gun but just in general. it won't be as pretty or as heavy (which subjectively could be a good thing) as the e&l but it'll lob bb's very very nearly as well and it is basically half the price. tbh if you know what your doing a cyma with £150's worth of bits would make quite an evil proposition. a pretty accurate summation, certainly the cyma's and jg's of this world are an excellent demonstration of the diminishing returns curve in this hobby. think you're onto something there, especially when starting out and you're not necessarily sure how well you'll take to a given platform, i'd say waiting for the cyma to come into stock and spending the extra cash on a bunch of midcaps, an odin and a warfet would be the better solution.

it's extra complexity piled on top of what's already an annoying clockwork nightmare of bits and springs that's hell bent on escape. it might not appear too complex on the face of it, but that exponentially adds when you consider the multiple disassembly/reassembly operations you're going to end up doing. given that all you're getting is a control you don't want to over-use lest it break it's much easier to just avoid, especially if you're part of the 90% of the human race who is correct handed. after all, pretty much everybody switches off safe when the whistle blows and stays in one preferred fire mode (or in the case of cqb/dmr's decreed fire mode) pretty much the entire time until the whistle blows again when it's back to safe. can't say i've ever seen folk constantly flipping fire modes on the fly except in that particular kind of youtube video that insists on dragging things out by making every shoulder transition a multi-angle slow-mo shot.

also known as the "sentient landmine" approach to airsoft.

seen it plenty of times, normally someone ditches their primary near the end of the day and runs around pistol only for a bit of a change. even done it myself a couple of times, although even a straight shooting pistol is a challenge when you're not very good at pistol shooting. ofc some folks do run pistol only all the time, mainly indoors but sometimes outdoors. craziest i've seen was a guy who ran pistol only outdoors, but he evidently subscribed to the blackbeard school of reloads- carry half a dozen pistols and just draw a fresh one when your empty.....

i must admit it's the one thing i'd have loved to try, assuming limited ammo actually means limited ammo and none of this "an m4 pcc with a box mag is a support gun" shenanigans. taking something like the dragonuv on the field with nominally* 160 rounds and no decent topping off method is great except the bit where everyone else is hosing left right and centre. problem is every event i've seen that tried to impose ammo limits either did it in a really dumb way (eg you could carry 2 hi caps or 5 low caps, evidently nobody did the math on that), or allowed the aforementioned workaround of accepting anyone with an arp and a drum mag as a support gunner, which kind of defeats the point of giving people who have to lug support guns with actual heft to them around the capacity advantage. plus ofc letting people carry a bag to spawn to reload with also defeats the purpose of encouraging ammo conservation. *mags holding 20 rounds on paper, more like 15

indeed, with the right tweaks a budget gun can generally be gotten to the same standard of performance as premium guns, at least for the fundamental task of lobbing small balls. what you'd want from a more premium gun is either aforementioned tweaks to already be there (for those who don't want to mod their own stuff), or for there to be an improvement in external quality. agreed but then i've never understood the people who's collection consists entirely of m4's just with different accessories.

i have seen one where the mag catch was installed the opposite way round meaning it wouldnt lock a mag, the spring tension would stop it falling out but you could just pull it down and it'd come free. i'm guessing there's no obvious sign of wear on the magazine tab? the mag catch isn't too hard to get to, just the one big screw on the back of the grip and a sliding metal retainer.

An extremely convincing argument, a heavy defence of the seller that isnt remotely suspicious even with the lack of evidence beyond "looks legit to me bruv" and loyal devotion to spreading the word. On the other hand we have the guy who has a long history on this board of buying both legit real optics and chinese clones, but that doesnt mean anything.....

yeah heard of this too. seems they've fallen quite far into the well of dirty tactics since the internet made finding out records from the original source much easier to find.

not just recoils, any tm will outrange anything at 0.8j. except the vsr10, those need stronger springs apparently.

must say i'm inclined to agree. i'd even put money on it, just not as much money as Guinness charges, which is kinda the point with records like this.

am i the only one thinking that's heavy looking paper for a sub 1j bb to be penetrating at that range..... edit: some of the excel equivalent of back of a fag packet calculations suggest for a 0.48g bb we're talking ~0.07j of energy at 81m (assuming still air of ρ=1.225kg/m³ and constant drag coefficient of 0.45 for laminar flow (which iirc i remember checking and apparently it is for our energy levels))

not as many as proctologists....