Adolf Hamster

Yeah but that would take effort, fuck that

i guess the problem lies in the realistic (if thankfully slim in this country) possibility that a given gun-shaped-object may indeed be a real, illegally obtained, firearm. not a decision i'd want to have to try and make on the spot that's for damn sure.

assuming your son's is the left-hand one then looks like it's not too bad with only one shot being significantly low. the range of readings if you discount that flier is really not too bad and the lower average more likely just means the spring being a tad softer. chrono data like that is about as good a diagnosis of air seal as you can get without stripping the box or having some range time to check vertical dispersion.

speaking as the perspective of someone who's entire style of play revolves around maximizing range you'd be surprised how often people actually do stand around and let you shoot them. most often it's people simply not expecting you to be able to hit them, until you do..... even funnier is how often you'll see people just coming back to the same spot or taking the same route that you literally tagged them in all of 5 minutes prior.....

this is a fair point, although tbh it's mainly due to the inevitability of your average airsofter failing to comprehend rule 1, as evidenced by the number of point-blank hosings that occurr outside of buildings. tbh i can kinda get that one, for some folk its as much about getting out of the house away from spouse/kids and having a catch-up with mates. kinda like a social club mixed with a fashion show and a gym session. as long as sites don't mess around more eager players to cater to them i can't see the harm. most often it seems places just start the game and people can show up late if they want.

tbh i'm kinda surprised someone hasn't been shot for pulling this kind of stunt already, although it feels like its only a matter of time before someone seems credible enough to catch a bullet for this sort of thing. play stupid games win stupid prizes i just hope when it happens the poor officer involved doesn't spend too long in that blender known as the court of public opinion. you make a solid point about being sensible, i've bumped into police RIF in hand all of twice in my airsofting career, funny enough nothing came of it as both times were on site mid game day..... problem is a lot of the public need no more reason than to know gun-shaped-objects exist to want to get rid of them and that kind of press is never going to end well for us. i get the sentiment, but whilst such strict controls might not kill airsoft, it will massively impact the number of players to the point it might as well kill it off. part of the attraction for airsoft for a lot of people is the accessibility and lack of paperwork compared to traditional shooting sports.

*flashbacks of trying to get them adjusted on the f2000 to cure precisely this problem*

not strictly true, have a look at a recent discussion on the topic here: of course absolute range isn't the only thing worth considering, especially with pistols the range can often be limited not by how far the pistol can lob a bb, but by how well a given shooter can aim and fire at a fleeting target in skirmish conditions. they look pretty typical to me. whilst joule creep is a thing in gas blowbacks it tends not to be too noticeable for pistols simply due to the short barrel length, the bb doesn't spend enough time in the barrel that the extra % time spent for a heavier bb to pick up that much energy. the other thing to note is .2g to .25g isn't that big a weight difference compared to jumping from .2g to 0.4g it's also worth noting did you set the hop for each weight or is that set for only one of the 2 weights, as that can affect the energy (as noted in the above linked thread) yes on both counts. heavier ammo generates more back pressure which can apply extra load to the nozzle. in extreme cases it'll bulge or even burst (granted i've never actually burst a nozzle but i have heard of it happening). how much a given gun can take in this regard is a hard one to state as it depends on the build quality, gas used, ambient temperature etc etc. heavier ammo will need more spin, which needs the hop set on further or even a hop with a softer compound, which will wear it out faster. although tbh a hop is a wear component anyway and especially for the typical round count you'd see in a pistol i don't really think premature wear is an issue worth worrying about (as in by the time the hop wears out the rest of the gun will also be in a pretty poor state).

Mans is getting deja vu: The spreadsheet thread linked in there does some (admittedly basic) math behind bb lobbing, but as @rocketdogbert points out there are a lot of variables. Getting a hit after expending half a mag fired 45 degrees in the air isnt the same range as that where you can aim, fire and (wind/target movement aside) hit a man sized target reliably. I've always taken claims of people claiming to be able to shoot x/y/z meters with a massive pile of salt, and i've never measured it myself because all that matters to me is having that little extra distance compared to the other guy.

Hmm, theres a few things it could be but it kinda sounds like the alignment between the cutoff lever and the trigger isn't quite right. Its one of those problems you can run into if your scratch building a box from random bits but not normally for a stock build. How old is the gun?

isn't this a thread for jokes not well established facts?

you could carry 4 and a speedloader if so desired, or 7 mags, whatever works but you only get 500 rounds yes, even if i'm a little peeved at the idea having an ak de-facto means bad guy.....

whilst i get the sentiment, not everyone standing out of range of the enemy is incapable of engaging effectively. but yes a lot of folks do this.

see i can understand that, you see the reverse with folk in black outdoors, it's just the crossover between majority indoor/outdoor players having a dabble at the other side but can't be bothered buying new kit just to play indoors/outdoors. cmon man, moaning about things we don't like is a national institution

that was my point, fps on 0.2j is a joule measurement, just in confusing units that make it seem like it isn't. the reason it's taken so long is because there's not much agreement in chrono standards, for example hop on or off, player weight or site weight, quote limits in fps or j, and sites generally can't be bothered putting too much effort into it, much easier to just remember a number. i've lost count of the number of times i've had to explain that no, my gun is not shooting low, it's heavy ammo, especially when they've set the weight on the chrono and are reading the fps figure (which is always a raw figure of the velocity measurement) rather than the calculated joule figure.

so premise of this is what things in airsoft do you not "get", and why? i'll start off with a couple- patches- i really don't get it, especially people who seem to collect them and get properly excited when they see a new patch. doubly so when you see people using the patches you get with bits of kit like airsoft innovations or gate products or from sites. painting desert camo- i'm not a fan of painting stuff in general, but i can get why folk would want to paint camo to make a gun more concealable, or painting crazy designs as an artistic expression, but painting desert camo just confuses me because you're not really getting any artistic benefit (no more than painting it an appropriate woodland camo) but you are making the gun stand out. note i'm not counting people doing it as part of a specific impression loadout, that's understandable. the kriss vector- not the gun in general or why people would use it, but why they're all so unreasonably heavy, seriously are they making those things out of depleted uranium or something? revolvers- or more correctly how anyone can fire one and not be immediately dissapointed......

f2000's will do that no matter what magazine you use. it's a pacifists gun....

i see a sales post for a trilux monocular? the pictures have a 3d printed mock up next to it but it's not mentioned in the post text?

while were at it where's @Sitting Duck

you know fps is a measurement of velocity not energy right? when we use the term fps in airsoft what's actually meant is fps on a 0.2g bb and that latter part is what makes it a convoluted way of stating energy, who's SI unit is joules...... the reason velocity is the thing people use is because that's what chronographs measure/display, and the reason it's feet per second rather than metres per second is the same (read: dumb) reasons we buy petrol in litres, milk in pints, sugar in kilos and steak in oz because the uk is stuck in measurement system purgatory.

indeed, i'd wager an awful lot of bb brands don't manufacture their own, i remember it mentioned at some point there's something like only 3 companies that actually do the manufacturing, but put a massive citation needed next to that statement. yep, and more than once have i "fixed" feeding problems by doing nothing more than emptying the magazine and refilling it with different ammo. wether or not you're happy for a gun to be fussy about what ammo you give it is ofc another personal preference decision, eg i'm happy knowing i can't just buy any old random site bb's and expect them to work at least passably.

yep, quality is a very big factor. not just in terms of dimensional/finish consistency but also weight consistency. which is yet another factor of how gun X might shoot better on 0.28g rather than 0.32g even if both bb's are from the same brand, as they're likely at least different production lines if not entirely different oem's. and how adaptable a gun is to being fed bad food is another factor that can trade with out and out performance. funny really how a bunch of relatively simple systems can get insanely complex when they're put together.

tbh i'd have rather they just had an ammo limit, eg you get 500 rounds for the day but how you use them is up to you. can put them all in one hicap or spread it out over a bunch of low-caps and refill mid-game but you still only get 500 rounds. means you're not forcing folk to buy mags of any given config. then just raise the ammo limit for boxfed guns based on weight- heavier your gun is the more ammo you're allowed so if you've got a drumfed arp you only get 500 rounds like everyone else but if you're lugging a pkp then you can carry ten times that. but ofc that's not that easily enforceable (folk will just hide bags of extra bb's) and it'll all fall apart after the first few hours when folk have emptied their allowance and are complaining that they can't shoot any more.

yes i can see your point. as i mentioned everything is a trade off, and reliability is a factor that i personally rarely consider. but you make a good point that by not pursuing the peak of performance you're gaining longevity. ultimately it's a case of how happy a person is with that balance, for example my view is i'd rather have the performance and accept the higher maintenance that entails, at least within reasonable limits (eg how i mentioned bulged nozzles in pistols). absolutely, for example with my playstyle i always had trouble with intermediate range- too far to hip fire and too close to take your time, that kind of snap shooting is where i tend to fail miserably. not familiar with PBR as a term (i'm guessing it's not "patrol boat river" ) but going by the context of it meaning something like "practical battle range" i'd say it's very personal in terms of what a given person is happy with. my viewpoint is the better the gun shoots, the more opportunities it opens up, eg when you only have a foot poking out of cover, or the other guy is shooting through a small window, plus it's less infuriating to miss from your own lack of marksmanship than the hardware failing you. there are folk who scoff at the notion of trying to go down the route of maximizing range arguing along the lines of "just get closer", and that has it's own logic. but you bring what your good at to this game and every bit of pew performance i can leverage means i can get away with not having to run quite as fast or hide quite as well, which for someone as pathologically lazy as me is exactly the ticket. yep, and if you're going to the extremes then that can impose its own limitations, you end up having to decide which aspect of performance is more important to you. it's like choosing a mk23 over [generic gbb pistol], you're trading the feel of the gbb and snappier response for reliability, precision & silence. or choosing to hpa- you're trading the hatred of your peers for bb lobbing performance or choosing gbbr- you're trading performance for feel. none of these choices are inherently wrong, and it's a good thing that we have such variety to choose what we want to prioritize.

its a system that can get rather complicated. from a purely physics perspective (ie ignoring the gun), a bb with X energy, given the correct amount of backspin for its weight, will go further the heavier it is, which is what the spreadsheet @SSPKali linked to is all about. there's a site online which i forget the name of goes much much much further down the rabbit hole. however that isn't strictly the whole argument if you apply it to an aeg and there are scenarios where other factors start to drift in. the crucial thing is assuming that the energy is constant and backspin is magically acheived without affecting energy. the first issue is the amount of backspin, the energy, and how this is linked. to take a simplistic example lets say a gun can spin a 0.2g correctly and fires a perfect 1J with the hop set to 25% on. we swap out to 0.25g we need to set the hop to 35% on, the extra resistance from the hop nub being further in drops the energy to 0.8j then we try 0.3g, with the hop set to 60% on, the energy then drops to 0.6j try it with 0.4g and there's so much resistance it won't even fire. how much the energy drops in order to spin a given ammo weight is dependent on hop design, hence why the likes of maple leaf rubbers, s hops, r hops etc are a thing, they're trying to give the bb more spin whilst taking less energy to do so, usually through a larger but longer contact patch, softer grippier compounds etc. what's fun is i've even seen dual "sweet spots", where if you start from zero and dial in the hop you'll meet that point of perfect hop, but keep going and you can do it a second time where the over-hop and energy drop converge again to lift the round properly, of course the lower energy results in much lower range. the next hurdle is volume, a heavier bb is going to spend longer in the barrel and have higher back pressure, so every source of air leak (including the gap around the bb in the barrel) is going to leak more air, kinda like the reverse of joule creep (where more time spent in the barrel means picking up more energy in systems that are pressure fed and not volume limited). this is dependent on a lot of factors but assuming "perfect" air seal both having a longer barrel or wider bore will add to this issue whereas a shorter barrel and tighter bore will do the reverse. this is more relevant for dmr platforms where folk both have long barrels and want to use heavy ammo in a system with a fixed maximum volume (and hence why you tend not to short-stroke dmr length guns). so a gun that's built properly (by design or chance) to lob 0.25's may well be worse if you move to 0.3's, but that doesn't mean a gun built properly to lob 0.4's isn't going to be better. and that's before we start talking about the difference between absolute range (ie how far the bb is capable of going) and effective range (ie how far you can aim, fire and hit a target). when it comes to the latter even things like optics, the size/weight of the gun, trigger response, and skill of the shooter start playing serious factors. for example i stopped running the super heavies in pistols not because the range was any better on the lighter ammo but because it was still better than my capability to shoot with a handgun and you weren't changing bulged nozzles every other magazine. same as how it's pointless running heavy ammo in cqb because accuracy/range is not the deciding factor for getting hits. problem is that's focusing on only part of the system, bb weight absolutely is a factor alongside airseal (read: fps consistency), volume and energy. to take an automotive example, you could fit the engine from an f1 car in a vw golf and put lewis hamilton behind the wheel, but he won't be winning the championship, hell even if you put a more powerful engine in he still won't win because the rest of the system isn't good enough to take advantage of the strongest element. not just the hop. tm's "magic" isn't just one thing being excellent (as much as we like to joke about the tm hop fairies), it's everything being a good match for everything else in a world where one part not properly fitting another is the norm. permitting myself a little "luke" moment; tm's are very well put together for the energy they do but it is somewhat curious how whilst the ~0.8j of a tm is commonly reported to outrange everything, many recoil owners feel the need to crack open their pews and fill them with the contents of the prometheus catalogue, likewise the mighty mk23 with its legendary range gets the maple leaf+hadron treatment, the vsr gets filled with PDI, the MWS gets filled with whatever the hell mws people fill their guns with etc.