ComicCon airsoft open carry (facepalm)

[Galvatron]

It says as much about ComicCon's piss-poor security in a (paid) public event as the people doing it but there were cosplayers yesterday at the NEC in open carry with airsoft guns.

 

One numpty in one of the foyers (open to everyone without paying) had an MP7 openly hanging from his chest and past the "paywall" was a bloke dressed up as an NPC soldier from Metal Gear Solid with a FAMAS. He openly said he bought it in two-tone and sprayed it black but left an orange tip on the muzzle. 🤦‍♂️

 

I noticed at least a couple other cosplayers with M4s and another with an MP5K.

 

Predictably, responsible players would be blamed for the actions of idiots who don't play airsoft or that minority of players who have some sort of death wish.

[Lozart]

1 hour ago, Galvatron said:

It says as much about ComicCon's piss-poor security in a (paid) public event as the people doing it but there were cosplayers yesterday at the NEC in open carry with airsoft guns.

 

One numpty in one of the foyers (open to everyone without paying) had an MP7 openly hanging from his chest and past the "paywall" was a bloke dressed up as an NPC soldier from Metal Gear Solid with a FAMAS. He openly said he bought it in two-tone and sprayed it black but left an orange tip on the muzzle. 🤦‍♂️

 

I noticed at least a couple other cosplayers with M4s and another with an MP5K.

 

Predictably, responsible players would be blamed for the actions of idiots who don't play airsoft or that minority of players who have some sort of death wish.

 

 

If only there was some kind of alternative way for Cosplayers to cover themselves...

[The_Lord_Poncho]

I'm not sure what the issue is here? We run around with RiFs at our own events, including have them in safe zones at sites where there are plenty of other non airsoft players. What's the issue with Cosplayers running around with them at their events?

[Wavey_Gravey]

Being in a public space with a gun shaped toy is never a good idea.

[The_Lord_Poncho]

I couldn't agree more. I suppose I'm just reflecting on the parallels - probably comes down to the definition of a public space. We pay to access private events/land each game day - as do the punters at ComicCon. Of course, when we turn up at said events, we would anticipate seeing Rifs, but arguably, people turning up for the private event on private land that is ComicCon would anticipate similar?

 

Presumably armed police would have the same or similar considerations upon responding to a call from someone who has reported a gun being carried at an airsoft field as they would at a cosplay event. At least, one would hope that some logical thought process would go on upon receipt of and response to said call!

[Lozart]

According to MCM's own website airsoft guns are banned from all their events so...

 

https://www.mcmcomiccon.com/london/en-us/costume-weapons-props-rules.html

 

Maybe the local security haven't been kept in the loop.

 

 

[Tommikka]

This is a subejct that particularly interests me......

 

Whenever there is a ComicCon of any significance they are accompanied by the Police 'educating' those who fail to have a brain whilst travelling.

 

Despite the so-called CosPlay defence & "insurance" by a particular airsoft retailer, there is no such thing and the ComicCon that they 'associate' with and had links to on their website disallows RIFs in the CosPlay rules.

 

Generally CosPlay rules permit RIFs with an orange tip - these remain RIFs as far as the law is concerned, and as noted a Cosplayer who paints an IF into an orange tipped RIF and admits to it is confessing to an offence under the VCRA.  (If anyone took notice)

An airsofter who used their playing RIFs as CosPlay props would be VCRA legal, but would be required to as a minimum add an orange tip (which can be tape) but according to the ComicCon rules that I have seen would also need to disable the RIF from operating.

 

 

An exception to the rule is the 'professional' CosPlayer - In my 'definition' these are those who are attending ComicCons not as paying customers but on a perfomance basis - they may be paid or invited for free entry.  These would need to be professionals such as lookalikes and/or members of active CosPlay societies and have appropriate insurance etc bringing them to the theatrical defence.  (And they could potentially find themselves needing to defend that status)

 

 

With the mention of 'security' there are at least two levels at ComicCons - True security with their badged ID etc, and 'door monitors'.

I've had door monitor status at some ComicCons, one that was poorly run across multiple buildings with 'open access' with random passers by arriving as opposed to ticket holders etc.  I was by the door so became an informal door monitor pointing the randoms to the main building.   At others I keep in with the organisers and have volunteered my 'services' including door cover - checking wristbands for reentry, exchanging tickets for wristbands in the morning rush etc.

Those with 'weapons' get directed to either the real security or the main desk for approval & tagging - - -- - - Are swords, axes, bow & arrows etc of approved safe types, are guns non operational & tipped etc

 

((((At ComicCons, shows & festivals I stroll in as a trader & clearly I'm a VIP so I happily bypass security complete with any weapons, food, drink etc that I wish))))

 

 

 

Depending on any access control there is still the persons brain involved.  If people have had some common sense whilst travelling this may end at the queue, and I regulary see armed persons in the queues.  When its an exclusive event, lots of signage etc its less likely to result in a scare and ideally the police etc are aware and less likely to come in hard at 1000 MPH - but could still need to educate.

When its a major venue with multiple events at once, it does mean that there are diverse mixes of different crowds and passers by.

 

There was a ComicCon once in the function rooms of a major hotel, during breakfast there were a number of confused persons watching (if I recall correctly) Darth Vader and Dr Who (or was it Superman?) having a stand off in the dining room.

[Lozart]

Seems there are some types of gun props you ARE allowed:

 

Quote

Please take care when outside or when transporting any form of firearm prop.

Regardless of how realistic it looks, ensure it is completely hidden while travelling and be aware of your surroundings, attire, and the appearance of your props to bystanders when outside. Don’t assume a costume reassures people that the weapon is a prop.

False alarms waste police resources and risk creating stricter rules and laws.

• Unrealistic and toy guns such as those sourced from modern children's programming (made of brightly coloured plastics, with flashing lights and stickers), or that are clearly science fiction based (phasers, plasma guns, blasters) are permitted; maximum size is 150cm.
• Prop versions of antiquated muzzle loading guns such as flintlock pistols & blunderbuss made from lighter materials (not metal or hard wood) are similarly allowed.
• Airsoft guns, BB guns, deactivated guns, paintball guns, metal gun props, or props built using these or parts of these as a base are not permitted.
• Other Realistic imitation firearm props (excluding airsoft guns, BB guns, deactivated guns, paintball guns and metal gun props) made of lightweight materials are permitted with a brightly coloured tip on the end of the muzzle of the gun which is clearly visible from most angles OR if they have significantly brightly coloured portion. In the case of a brightly coloured tip, it does not have to be permanently fixed to the item and can be removed for photographs if fitted back in place immediately afterwards.
• Caps, darts, incendiaries and any ammunition that can be fired are not allowed. Any water pistols or similar should be empty of any liquids and not filled while on the event site. Compressed air chambers and batteries for weapons are similarly not permitted.
• Realistic replica rocket and missile launchers, mortars, and other anti-aircraft or artillery props are not allowed due to the venue’s proximity to an airport. 

 

 

But not airsoft.

[Rogerborg]

55 minutes ago, The_Lord_Poncho said:

What's the issue with Cosplayers running around with them at their events?

 

Legally, probably not much. The Firearms Act 1968 Section 19 distinguishes between private and public places, but it's not as clear as you might image. A private venue can be a "public place":

 

“public place” includes any [...] any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise;

 

I'm struggling to think of a clear distinction between a con venue and an airsoft site. Both admit the public on payment, both have exclusions and rules on that admission, both regularly turn a blind(ed) eye to their own rules.

 

Practically, it's likely more of an issue where cosplayers twirl outside of, or to and from the venue, including parading their gats through airports, of all places.  But note the lack of real consequences - all you need is a "reasonable excuse", and the bar for that is very low.  We've seen a Sheriff opining that "playing cowboys and Indians" would count, and there's case law on selling otherwise prohibited police gear for "fancy dress" purposes.

 

Just don't argue the toss when you hear "Armed police, drop the gun."  You'll be calling that hit.

[Adolf Hamster]

58 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

You'll be calling that hit.

 

I dunno, some folks in this sport feel like they're capable of the full black knight routine.....

[Enid_Puceflange]

In 2015, my mrs and I were in Hong Kong 

It was Halloween night and the Lan Kwai Fong area is full of bars and clubs that overspill into the pedestrianised streets

My mrs was dressed in a little GI Jane inspired costume , with a pretty realistic cheap toy MP5 slung over her back that was bought in a street market earlier that day, Nobody batted an eyelid at the toy PewPew!!

This was before I started to hobby

I’d never dream of it now, the possible consequences are mind blowing!

 

We left the realistic toy in the hotel room when we left to return

Fcuk knows how the chamber maids reacted to finding that!! 
Oh to have been a fly on the wall 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Enid_Puceflange

[Galvatron]

2 hours ago, Lozart said:

According to MCM's own website airsoft guns are banned from all their events so...

 

https://www.mcmcomiccon.com/london/en-us/costume-weapons-props-rules.html

 

Maybe the local security haven't been kept in the loop.

That's why I criticised the security. The security at Birmingham ComicCon were oblivious to everything except swords compared to those at London ComicCon who actually did check for prohibited items.

[Dan Robinson]

19 minutes ago, Enid_Puceflange said:

Fcuk knows how the chamber maids reacted to finding that!!

 

When our new cleaners started there was a very sheepish look on their faces, and it took them a while to summon up the courage to ask - we had our gun cases out following a skirmish day, and my plate carrier was hanging over the back of a chair.

 

Eventually one of them stuck their head into my office and asked "Are you a military contractor?" LOL.  "No love, just a plumber."

[gavinkempsell]

Any vistors that may need into my mancave (not a euphemism(or is it?)are always fore warned that my pews are all replicas or props.

[Cannonfodder]

3 hours ago, Tommikka said:

With the mention of 'security' there are at least two levels at ComicCons - True security with their badged ID etc, and 'door monitors'.

If these 'door monitors' aren't SIA licensed then either the venue or organisers are potentially dropping themselves in the brown stuff, as that could easily be seen as door supervision which is covered by the Private Security Industry Act

37 minutes ago, Dan Robinson said:

 

When our new cleaners started there was a very sheepish look on their faces, and it took them a while to summon up the courage to ask - we had our gun cases out following a skirmish day, and my plate carrier was hanging over the back of a chair.

 

Eventually one of them stuck their head into my office and asked "Are you a military contractor?" LOL.  "No love, just a plumber."

Years ago in a flat I was renting the landlord sent a plumber round to do some checks on the central heating, the guy was very thorough till he got to the spare room where my M249 was sat on a shelf. At this point he just said that ones fine without even going anywhere near the radiator

[Tommikka]

3 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

If these 'door monitors' aren't SIA licensed then either the venue or organisers are potentially dropping themselves in the brown stuff, as that could easily be seen as door supervision which is covered by the Private Security Industry Act

 

This bit of ‘door monitor’ that I’ve referred to  referred to wouldn’t be door supervision that is entirely under the scope of the act, with a relevant level of control of the public but a level below stewards on pointing towards a direction etc.  SIA licenced cover would be handling controlled access, bag checks & any issues 

 

There are occasions where I would say that particular organisers were very much veering towards legal problems 

 

 

[Cannonfodder]

So more of a customer service role rather than access control or security. That makes more sense 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Cannonfodder

[Lozart]

15 hours ago, Galvatron said:

That's why I criticised the security. The security at Birmingham ComicCon were oblivious to everything except swords compared to those at London ComicCon who actually did check for prohibited items.

 

Fair enough, I've only ever been to the London one and the security are pretty switched on at ExCel.

[Speedy Sloth]

Honestly difference is that we care more if rifs get outlawed/harder or more expensive to obtain than cosplayers. Rifs are just the final 1%of the costume for them but the entire sport for us.

 

So they will do whatever without and consideration of what the outcome could be for everyone else if it goes wrong.

[CrackCommandoUnit1972]

Liverpool Comic Con next year does allow airsoft guns for cos play as long as they have a bright yellow tip on them.

 

I might go as a 50 year old ruined John Matrix.

 

[Rogerborg]

32 minutes ago, CrackCommandoUnit1972 said:

as long as they have a bright yellow tip on them

 

I'm confused by what exactly this is meant to achieve.  I mean, what is going to happen differently because of it?  And how does it apply to anything without a muzzle device?

 

It feels like one of those "Because shut up, that's why" things.

[hunter511]

Because cosplayers are speshul..... even by airsofter standards. From going to one comicon at least we know what deodorant is.

 

But if I dont have a real looking mp5 it'll ruuuiiiiiiiin my resident evil LARP. And because Ive put all this time into my costume it'd be a shame not to walk all the way to the con through the centre of town without my kit on display.......

 

@Rogerborg also its a well known fact armed response don't take their hits and their fps is above site limits.

Edited December 6, 2023 by hunter511

[TheFull9]

Gonna thoroughly disagree with all airsofters knowing what deodorant is/that showering every day is a necessity lol.

 

Tbh I don't see much of a difference between a bunch of airsoft players going to The Mall back when that ran (or one of the many other currently operating sites that are in the middle of a dense urban area) vs con attendees heading to their expo centre... or me just transporting a RIF from any address to another for a reason that's within the law i.e. to one of the techs I use.  Or buying a RIF from an airsoft shop and bring it home.  Or buying an air rifle or crossbow or whatever else from a shop and taking it home.

 

If you let people see a 'gun' in public (in the UK) then guess what, ya dun fucked up son.  If you keep it totally hidden until you are within an area where gun-shaped things are legal to display and the appearance of said items is very much expected by everyone around, then that's going to be fine.

[Lozart]

14 hours ago, TheFull9 said:

Gonna thoroughly disagree with all airsofters knowing what deodorant is/that showering every day is a necessity.

 

Tbh I don't see much of a difference between a bunch of airsoft players going to The Mall back when that ran (or one of the many other currently operating sites that are in the middle of a dense urban area) vs con attendees heading to their expo centre... or me just transporting a RIF from any address to another for a reason that's within the law i.e. to one of the techs I use.  Or buying a RIF from an airsoft shop and bring it home.  Or buying an air rifle or crossbow or whatever else from a shop and taking it home.

 

If you let people see a 'gun' in public then guess what, ya dun fucked up son.  If you keep it totally hidden until you are within an area where gun-shaped things are legal to display and the appearance of said items is very much expected by everyone around, then that's going to be fine.

 

Part of the briefing at The Mall was always pointing out that Thames Valley ARU were stationed just over the road so NOT using a gun bag was strongly discouraged!

[Cannonfodder]

On 06/12/2023 at 23:04, hunter511 said:

Because cosplayers are speshul..... even by airsofter standards

Unfortunately there are some in this hobby who could do with a lesson in common sense. For example on my last trip to Bunker 51 while having a cigarette outside another player arrived openly carrying his M4 slung over one shoulder. I'm assuming he only carried it from his car and while the road is a minor back street it still struck me as not a clever thing to do