Using tag rounds

[Sneaky]

Hi all, after witnessing my team mates clear a fort with a tag round at my local site (Red Alert), I am also looking into this.  Very few players have them and everyone has been considerate using them.

I’m looking at the following;

EGLM for my SCAR H

2 x launcher shells

Co2 kit

The site sells tag rounds.

 

I would like to know what other sites allow these in the UK.

[Skullchewer]

I am infectious 😁

Reforger allow them.

[Danno46]

Every time I’ve played a Legion event seen them been used 

[Cr0-Magnon]

OK, so you don't actually need to convince me either way but IMO....

[Lozart]

17 minutes ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

OK, so you don't actually need to convince me either way but IMO....

 

I'm a fan of pyro, I like shit that goes bang. The bit I don't quite get though is when a site says you can use paper pyro up to MK5 but TAG rounds are also fine. The original blurb for Reapers suggest that they are closer to a MK9 and having had a few land near me (at Red Alert), I could easily believe it.

[Rogerborg]

6 minutes ago, Lozart said:

they are closer to a MK9

 

That's my issue with them as well.  TAG rounds are so far beyond anything else that we use that I'm baffled as to how a properly informed insurer would indemnify a site.  Given the masses, muzzle velocities and ranges claimed, they're barely within UK air-gun power levels, which is a particular issue in Scotland.  Something something pyrotechnic something, but there are also solid rounds, right?

 

The bangs are earball-hurty even outdoors, and given the ranges and time to target, any claims of precision have to be qualified with "at the time when you launch, not when it lands".

 

They were fun when I saw and heard them used (at a distance) at a filmsim. But they were used only by the organisers, and essentially non-competitively for theatrical effect. 

 

Being aimed at people by J. Random Airsofter, that's another thing altogether.  We've seen the injuries these thing can cause, right?  Smashed eyepro, and significant tissue damage.

 

They seem like something which will only be allowed until its banned, and it'll be a safety rule written in some poor sod's blood.

[Cannonfodder]

While I'm a fan of all things that go boom, I can see these being misused and someone getting hurt. 

 

I'd limit them to milsims, filmsims and special scenarios where their use can be controlled

 

[Lozart]

2 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

That's my issue with them as well.  TAG rounds are so far beyond anything else that we use that I'm baffled as to how a properly informed insurer would indemnify a site.  Given the masses, muzzle velocities and ranges claimed, they're barely within UK air-gun power levels, which is a particular issue in Scotland.  Something something pyrotechnic something, but there are also solid rounds, right?

 

The bangs are earball-hurty even outdoors, and given the ranges and time to target, any claims of precision have to be qualified with "at the time when you launch, not when it lands".

 

They were fun when I saw and heard them used (at a distance) at a filmsim. But they were used only by the organisers, and essentially non-competitively for theatrical effect. 

 

Being aimed at people by J. Random Airsofter, that's another thing altogether.  We've seen the injuries these thing can cause, right?  Smashed eyepro, and significant tissue damage.

 

They seem like something which will only be allowed until its banned, and it'll be a safety rule written in some poor sod's blood.

 

 

If you look at the descriptions on TAG's site they are actually aimed at Milsim/Training use rather than the average Sunday skirmish. The smoke rounds are useful though.

 

The "Pecker" rounds are solid-ish for use as training aids for aiming practice etc but I'm sure they're pretty innocuous unless you get shot point blank (we're not talking good old baton rounds here).

[Druid799]

Problem with TAG rounds is there a brilliant bit of kit UNTIL the human factor gets involved , I’ve only used them once or twice as I’m too much of a tight arse and won’t spend that much on something that goes bang only once so not a problem for me but then you have my mate who’s a fair bit more financially stable than me and absolutely loves them and will use them at every opportunity he has but because he’s ex-forces and was a small arms instructor he can be trusted with them , the way he can sling them down range AND how accurately he can is at times positively scary ! BUT he has the previous training and good sense how to use them properly and safely so he’s no danger , and that’s the giant difference between him and most other players using them , he understands the dangers and can asses wether they can be used safely or not , and if he thinks not then he won’t fire where as a lot will say “f**k it I’ve spent all this money on them I’m using them !” simple as that . 

[SeniorSpaz87]

Many places specify they are to be purely used as an AT/demo weapon only. Shoot a vic, shoot a fort, good to go. I know people who use them in an AI role and while I personally dont like to, honestly at range its fine. Ive been directly hit by them a half dozen times or so and theyre no big deal. The only times they are are the Paladin chalk rounds and at extremely close range. Two guys in vics were shooting them at each other from about 7m and one guy took one to the face. Bit of blood but nothing medically-significant. As with most things I suppose itll be some one-off idiot using them for room-clearing that causes issues. 

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Druid799 said:

the way he can sling them down range AND how accurately he can is at times positively scary

 

Well, that's the comment I anticipated above.  People can and do pop out from cover, or run right into incoming projectiles.  Unless he has x-ray vision and precognition, he can only be as accurate as reality allows.

[Cannonfodder]

8 hours ago, SeniorSpaz87 said:

As with most things I suppose itll be some one-off idiot using them for room-clearing that causes issues.

This. For every person that can use them sensibly there's always at least one idiot who'll do something dumb

[Druid799]

11 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Well, that's the comment I anticipated above.  People can and do pop out from cover, or run right into incoming projectiles.  Unless he has x-ray vision and precognition, he can only be as accurate as reality allows.

Err pre-assessment is the WHOLE point of my comment ? when he is using them he asses the area he’s aiming at to minimize the risk factor and is as safety conscious as possible as apposed to just firing them off in all directions with no consideration to other players safety .
ok then by the logic of your argument you could say any engagement that doesn’t replicate combat on a Napoleonic battle field where you have two apposing forces stood in an open field firing directly at each other shouldn’t be allowed due to the risk of an unexpected player suddenly appearing in front of you as you fire and the ‘possibility’ you could injure them ? 

[Rogerborg]

40 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

ok then by the logic of your argument you could say any engagement that doesn’t replicate combat on a Napoleonic battle field where you have two apposing forces stood in an open field firing directly at each other shouldn’t be allowed due to the risk of an unexpected player suddenly appearing in front of you as you fire and the ‘possibility’ you could injure them ?

 

The practical issue is that accidentally smacking Pop-Up Paddy in the face with a BB, even a 2.3J 0.5g BB, is significantly less harmful than yeeting 12J of explosive into his earball.  There was an image going around of a chap who'd taken a TAG to the face at some Murcan milsim: it had wrecked his goggles and he was streaming with blood.

 

It won't happen until it happens, at which point everybody will instantly develop 20:20 hindsight about how inevitable it was.

[SBoardley]

There are idiots that use these. I was playing along side one couple months back. The guy had shit tons of them and was firing them at groups of attackers on a very flat trajectory and then wondering why they wouldn’t explode…( they were yellow timed ones I believe) I kept telling him not to aim straight at people and to lob them up in the air cuz that would probably give them time to work and not hurt anyone but he wouldn’t listen and kept moaning they were duds… fucking idiot. 

[Druid799]

43 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

The practical issue is that accidentally smacking Pop-Up Paddy in the face with a BB, even a 2.3J 0.5g BB, is significantly less harmful than yeeting 12J of explosive into his earball.  There was an image going around of a chap who'd taken a TAG to the face at some Murcan milsim: it had wrecked his goggles and he was streaming with blood.

 

It won't happen until it happens, at which point everybody will instantly develop 20:20 hindsight about how inevitable it was.

I’d have to disagree after almost loosing my eyes sight due to a blast of full auto to the face at almost point blank range from a gun that had been set to literally 1-2 fps below the 350 limit and was running at a ridiculous high rate(as confirmed by the head marshal so was site legal)that shattered my prescription inserts in to my eyes and only reason I didn’t do permanent damage is due to me being an A&E nurse and being able to STOP myself from reacting as you automatically would do in this situation . 
I once had to help treat a player who had a a 3inch gash in his cheek that exposed his teeth after he and another player ran in to each other in a corridor and the other chap had a spiky flash hider on his gun which ripped the first guys face open . BUT neither incidents resulted in bans ‘just in case’ it happened again ? You do reach a point where you have to use common sense with an item that ‘could’ cause injury it’s like the master Mike situation a while back in the right hands not a problem , but in the wrong hands the potential for serious injury far outweighed the positive so lots of sites banned them . With the Mike you had a one off reasonably cheap purchase that’s it , with TAG rounds it’s a very expensive starting purchase and as equally expensive to keep using them so you will have the more mature players buying them than the irresponsible ones if only for the fiscal side if nothing else ? 
‘But it could happen’ isn’t really a valid reason in my opinion to not allow them .

[Spartan09]

On 23/06/2022 at 20:16, Sneaky said:

I would like to know what other sites allow these in the UK.

i know Apocalypse allow them, as i have used them there myself last year.

AWA Herts also say they allow them as long as you arc them..  but given how many trees are around the objectives you might fire one at,  then getting a good shot will be difficult.

I will be following this thread with interest, as I am also seeking out as many sites that allow tags as I can..  im want to try out as many new sites as I can this year, and being able to use TAG rounds will be a bonus. 

I have an S&T M320 on my Tippmann, and am fed up with my MOSCART shells either leaking (despite numerous rebuilds with new seals, valves etc) or having such short range as to be useless...  when they haven't leaked between game start and pulling the trigger on the launcher

On 23/06/2022 at 20:16, Sneaky said:

2 x launcher shells

Co2 kit

i got most of my tag stuff from www.airsoftworld.net (based in scotland)...   have a look and see if they have the shells or FIST2 devices in stock...

and in case you didnt already have this information...   i have been informed by other TAG users that green gas shells are no good for the newer rounds, so you need the CO2 shells (with gold band) or HPA shells (with red band) to reliably ignite the fuses on the pyro rounds

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Spartan09

[SeniorSpaz87]

7 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

This. For every person that can use them sensibly there's always at least one idiot who'll do something dumb

 

Yep.

 

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

 

The practical issue is that accidentally smacking Pop-Up Paddy in the face with a BB, even a 2.3J 0.5g BB, is significantly less harmful than yeeting 12J of explosive into his earball.  There was an image going around of a chap who'd taken a TAG to the face at some Murcan milsim: it had wrecked his goggles and he was streaming with blood.

 

It won't happen until it happens, at which point everybody will instantly develop 20:20 hindsight about how inevitable it was.

 

Thay guy is the one I was talking about, side note hes a bloody trooper - went to the vendors, got a new set of eyepro, washed the blood off, and was back on the field in a few minutes. Also I believe that was a Paladin (chalk) round that hit him - the arming fuse in the explosive rounds wouldn't have activated in the range they were at. 

 

24 minutes ago, Spartan09 said:

i know Apocalypse allow them, as i have used them there myself last year.

AWA Herts also say they allow them as long as you arc them..  but given how many trees are around the objectives you might fire one at,  then getting a good shot will be difficult.

I will be following this thread with interest, as I am also seeking out as many sites that allow tags as I can..  im want to try out as many new sites as I can this year, and being able to use TAG rounds will be a bonus. 

I have an S&T M320 on my Tippmann, and am fed up with my MOSCART shells either leaking (despite numerous rebuilds with new seals, valves etc) or having such short range as to be useless...  when they haven't leaked between game start and pulling the trigger on the launcher

i got most of my tag stuff from www.airsoftworld.net (based in scotland)...   have a look and see if they have the shells or FIST2 devices in stock...

and in case you didnt already have this information...   i have been informed by other TAG users that green gas shells are no good for the newer rounds, so you need the CO2 shells (with gold band) or HPA shells (with red band) to reliably ignite the fuses on the pyro rounds

 

 

agreed, GG is not good for the mk2s. For those who dont know there is a mk3 round coming out soon that doesnt use gas. theyre really toeing the line between airsoft and firearm with this one, but they claim to have no legal issues. If they get released youre looking at a far more reliable round and delivery system than anything gas based. You also do not need a FiSt2, most C02 fillers will work on the C02 shells - despite their claims.

[Spartan09]

1 minute ago, SeniorSpaz87 said:

most C02 fillers will work on the C02 shells - despite their claims.

true,  the fill nozzles dont look any different,  but i have had a couple of cheaper CO2 fillers that have blown seals or leaked around the pressure gauges (which rarely worked)  plus not venting excess CO2 properly when replacing an almost empty capsule...    i then bought the FIST2 and never had an issue again.

i also found that i was getting 5 or 6 fills on the TAG shell before performance of the rounds began suffering and needed a fresh bulb

 

6 minutes ago, SeniorSpaz87 said:

there is a mk3 round coming out soon that doesnt use gas. 

not heard of this one before...   so what are they using instead of gas to propel it then?

 

[Sneaky]

I agree with everything said above, there are may issues that need to be addressed.  For now so far the idiots have not got hold of these, but that is a serious concern I do share with you all.  That applies to everything we each enjoy doing.

 

I just like the element that launchers are more practical than they were when I first started airsofting many years back. I'm going for it and if it gets regulated to milsim only, then silsim it is, but I hope that will not happen (more than likely a matter of time due to a couple of chumps).

 

I'm going to enjoy it and it will encourage me to go to other sites and meet others who use them.

 

 

On 23/06/2022 at 21:41, Skullchewer said:

I am infectious 😁

Reforger allow them.

Me too!

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, Druid799 said:

BUT neither incidents resulted in bans ‘just in case’ it happened again ?

 

They should have.  Rate of fire limits and running round corners spiky-thing first are pretty obvious risks that can be mitigated by saying "Not at this site, chaps."

 

 

3 hours ago, SBoardley said:

There are idiots that use these. I was playing along side one couple months back.

 

And there we go.  Well, they're at least rare enough that not many folk are going to get hurt, although that'll be cold comfort to those who do.

[SeniorSpaz87]

1 hour ago, Spartan09 said:

true,  the fill nozzles dont look any different,  but i have had a couple of cheaper CO2 fillers that have blown seals or leaked around the pressure gauges (which rarely worked)  plus not venting excess CO2 properly when replacing an almost empty capsule...    i then bought the FIST2 and never had an issue again.

i also found that i was getting 5 or 6 fills on the TAG shell before performance of the rounds began suffering and needed a fresh bulb

 

not heard of this one before...   so what are they using instead of gas to propel it then?

 

 

Correct, the FiSt2 is a very good system and worth the money, but if the option is getting a single shell and a FiSt2 or two shells and a basic charger to replace later, its certainly an option. The new "kick Charge" rounds use a primer system to fire, which is where the legislation issues would come up - though talking to ASPT he seems to think its a non issue. Heres a video on them: 

 

 

[Sneaky]

9 minutes ago, SeniorSpaz87 said:

 

Correct, the FiSt2 is a very good system and worth the money, but if the option is getting a single shell and a FiSt2 or two shells and a basic charger to replace later, its certainly an option. The new "kick Charge" rounds use a primer system to fire, which is where the legislation issues would come up - though talking to ASPT he seems to think its a non issue. Heres a video on them: 

 

 

The kick charge look more more user friendly when it comes to getting them ready, which I’m all for.

[JimFromHorsham]

I think in the right hands these type of devices add a good element of fun to the games , I can remember pre-set pyrotechnics quite regularly at games . 
 

Milsims were (when i played) a bit of a free for all with lots of weird and wonderful homemade contraptions turning up and just a “go for it” attitude , 99% of the time there was never a hitch bar the odd jacket or haircut getting frazzled 😛 

 

at a Sunday walk on though , which really is a free for all in most regards because there is usually a big contingent of kids , newbs and knobbers all mixed together I think it’s perhaps not such a good idea that anyone and everyone can bring one along . 

[Hatchet]

To be fair, with your throwing arm you don't really need a TAG launcher anyway...