Fps/Joule Limit

[Cr0-Magnon]

I tried to start this discussion on one of the Facebook groups a while back and the responses were "but to increase it would be illegal"...so to clarify this is of course hypothetical. 

 

What do you feel about the power limits where you are? I'm not talking about using our RIF's for home defence or anything silly like that but for skirmishing. If you could change them, would they be higher, lower or stay the same?

 

For example do you fear someone shooting you up close with 350fps/1.14J or do you think with the all the gear most people wear and given that many of our skirmish sites are large woodland areas, we could actually do we increasing the power for more fluid game play/clear hit calling? 

 

 

[Sitting Duck]

it is about right imho... 350fps max on 0.20 or whatever the 1.14j bollox

coupled with a mature attitude of not lighting people up at point blank range

 

350fps, many are say 328fps on a rough average overall (300~349.9999)

if below 300 then I'd think about giving it the once over at aiming for Mall's 340 limit

 

On the field at mid range the power/impact drops considerably

sure there was a vid showing a 450 sniper, with a chrono say 30~40m away showing how the fps dropped

 

So on that note if you get hit by a few bb's it will lightly sting a bit x a few bb's

so it is part of the sport if you get a few hits - though overkill is a cunt

 

On cqb the single shot rule should apply & normally the body is the largest target

so "should" be within the pain threshold unless you are a real wimp

(the really bitch is getting shot in the back with a tight top on - that can sting at times

(but man up ffs, or play Nerf/Fortnight)

 

Also it is about not having a wanker hose machine & some respect for people you are shooting

eg: a gun at around 20rps, even if you are still on auto (should be on semi if shooting cqb)

should be able to control any real crazy overkill - though if play is still at mid range & you are rushed/flanked

then you could be taken by surprise and shoot at a guy close range on auto/3 rnd burst etc....

 

hopefully an experienced player will not panic and hold trigger to light up the flanker

BUT at times shit happens to all of us and welts happen - it is just the stuff airsoft is know for

 

think the limit is about right, providing wankers don't hose others at close range

it isn't the gun's fault or the limits - but the twat holding the gun imho

 

if twats don't call their hits - I didn't feel it they keep saying...

 

Right you have a choice - leave or next round you are playing naked

(pretty sure you will be calling your hits then)

 

 

[Cr0-Magnon]

@Sitting Duck - I agree. To me full-auto is strictly for keeping rushing hordes back when they're 30 - 40 metres away and even then it's controlled bursts rather than spray n' pray.

 

 

[Skara]

Come to Italy and you'll realise how useful a wanker gun can be...

[Cr0-Magnon]

28 minutes ago, Skara said:

Come to Italy and you'll realise how useful a wanker gun can be...

 

Are people extra reluctant to call their hits?

[Skara]

1 minute ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

 

Are people extra reluctant to call their hits?

Some (in my club) need a bit of incentive, easily fixed by holding the trigger for 1-2 more seconds than required.

Tournaments, though, are a shit show. We had an episode at the national finals (where marshals should be absolutely spot on) where we (8 people) magdumped a guy running away, he called fuck all and kept playing lol. At the end of the game he looked like he got blasted by a point blank 12g birdshot.

I'm not a dick though, and I run my guns at 20 rps ish and tend to do short bursts unless I'm providing cover for my teammates. But I'd take a wanker hose gun any day of the week at a tournament.

/rant

 

Back on topic, I'm happy with my 1J blanket limit and no MED, removes any kind of argument about BaNg bAnG/mercy/surrender..

Sucks for us snipers because we only have a marginal edge on range (good hop, heavy bbs) over regular AEG users who usually spam .2s, so a slightly higher limit for semi locked DMRs/Bolt actions wouldn't hurt too much, say 1.3/1.5J limit, still in the realm of no MED (it's not like you're using them in CQB anyway, plus it's one/two bbs tops coming your way, not 50) but at the same time allows us to stay "safe" further away from the action.

But knowing how things go here, it'd probably end up in another shitshow of people running full auto 1.5J guns blasting others at point blank in the face.

[Rogerborg]

3 hours ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

For example do you fear someone shooting you up close with 350fps/1.14J

 

Given that I play almost entirely CQB and regularly get point-blanked with that energy (and a maximum mass of 0.25g) then no, not at all.

 

I think that's about the right limit.  If you go down the Septic route of 2J AEGs then you get into MEDs and those rather silly "BANG! BRO! I BANGED YOU!" videos that you can see on the YouTubes when they get up close.

 

UK law allowing, which it doesn't, then in woodland I think you could make an argument for raising bolt power to 3J or even more to allow for longer ranges in conjunction with 30m MEDs.  However, I wouldn't make that argument because you should consider the worst case, and the realistic case, rather than the best case.  With airsoft inability to judge distances, the push towards denser and denser BBs, and the risk of someone popping out of cover and getting point blanked in the face, I think 500fps is about right too.

 

Actually, if you want to make distinctions between AEG, DMR and boltie ranges, one way to do that would be to limit BB weights.  In the nightmare scenario that we went full NI / Italian with a flat 1J limit, you could limit AEGs to (for the sake of argument) 0.2g, DMR to 0.28g and bolties to... well, let's get to that... and you'd get extra range even for the same energy.

 

On weight, I'd like us to have a think about BB weights, and what they're actually composed of.  The natural weight of an ABS or PLA not really bio 5.95mm BB is about 0.12g.  Anything above 0.2g is adulterated, and above 0.4g you start losing the argument that you're actually slinging plastic.  Remember, a steel BB is 0.86g.

 

I use exclusively 0.2g in CQB.  On the occasions I play outdoors I have 0.43g in the boltie, and I'm rather thinking that if I put my range where my maths is that I shouldn't.  But then... everybody else is, so I wouldn't be competitive.  It's an issue for sites and the hobby in general.

[Sitting Duck]

OK maybe naked airsoft could be a bit horrific on the eyes for most chubby cheaters...

 

not calling your hits - shorts & no shirt for next round

or leave the site

 

(lady cheaters - you can sit the next game out in the buff)

[Cromulon1994]

Up the power and people will wear more clothing or armour, making it harder to feel hits. 

 

Personally I think plates in plate carriers and strapping a million items to your chest should be discouraged.

 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

1 hour ago, Skara said:

Come to Italy and you'll realise how useful a wanker gun can be...

 

unfortunately i can sympathise with this, over here there are folk who can fail to call a 40-mike.....

 

flat 1j limit is a tricky one, on the one hand yes you can just blast at any range and not worry about what bb weight or med you're using.

 

but on the other hand it basically cuts out the practicality of some guns, particularly bolties and machine guns (meaning properly weighted things not those stupid all plastic m249's).

 

i reckon the 1.3/2.5j limit is probably about right, although if i were god of airsoft i'd be interested in seeing caliber/weight based limits, to try and get guns being used more in their proper roles.

 

 

[Rogerborg]

5 minutes ago, Cromulon1994 said:

Personally I think plates in plate carriers and strapping a million items to your chest should be discouraged.

 

Urgh, yes. The number of times I've whanged multiple tracers off of some geardo's double-stacked ammo on top of a plate carrier, only to have them (I accept genuinely) just not feel it.  Why they can't hear it is another question.

 

When I started wearing my EVA-foam Imperial Guard armour, I was very concerned about not being able to feel hits, and was calling myself out from ricochets or even when folk were just pointing barrels in my general direction.  It turns out that I can still feel them fine, just damped down, and I can certainly hear them, so I'm not much minded to buy the pleas of ignorance from Captain Crye.  Those magic headsets that folk wear, do they cut out the sound of BBs pinging off of Crye?

[Adolf Hamster]

3 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

Those magic headsets that folk wear, do they cut out the sound of BBs pinging off of Crye?

 

the opposite, they amplify noise so you're more likely to hear hits...

[Cr0-Magnon]

21 minutes ago, Cromulon1994 said:

Personally I think plates in plate carriers and strapping a million items to your chest should be discouraged.

 

Topless airsoft?

[Tackle]

As we're talking hypothetical, yeah sure, in a perfect world it would be fine.

 

BUT

 

we're not in a perfect world, far from it, & the Airsoft world has a large population of div's, Walt's, & generally small dicked losers who suffer with some kind of "premature ejaculation" in their trigger finger.

I think I'll stick with what we've got, in the knowledge that I won't end up in a&e due to other peoples fuckups.

 

Obviously all my lovely mates here, the names above don't apply 😜

[Rogerborg]

10 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

i'd be interested in seeing caliber/weight based limits, to try and get guns being used more in their proper roles.

 

See https://desertfoxevents.com/Desert-Fox-Events-Manual.pdf

 

Rather filmsim, LARPy and over complicated, but as near as I can make out:

 

AEG, pistol, shotgun and GBBR, 1.5J and semi-auto only.

 

LMG/MMG, 2J,  50 foot / 15m MED and max 30rps(!)

 

DMR/Boltie, 2.8J, 100'/30m MED (and as though it's not bad enough having the same energy limits, DMRs can carry a carbine, snipers can only carry a pistol secondary. WTF?)

 

But this is where is gets a bit interesting:

 

SMG or auto-shotgun, 1J but full auto, unlike 1.5J AEGs

 

 

It'd never take off here because everyone tunes for 350fps - heck, my MP5K with a 247mm barrel inside a suppressor is shooting at 340fps now.  But I do quite like the general principle of different energy limits for full auto, semi-auto with no MED, and semi-auto with MED.

[Cr0-Magnon]

7 minutes ago, Tackle said:

we're not in a perfect world, far from it, & the Airsoft world has a large population of div's, Walt's, & generally small dicked losers who suffer with some kind of "premature ejaculation" in their trigger finger.

I think I'll stick with what we've got, in the knowledge that I won't end up in a&e due to other peoples fuckups.

 

Seems like overshooting is a bigger concern than the power we're shooting at. Again, etiquette isn't just about calling your hits. In fact going completely off-topic at some sites I've been to, the bigger issue has been people screaming "AAAARRRRE YOU GOING TO CALL THAT!?!?!??............OHHH COME ONNN!!!!" as the first BB is still flying through the air.

[Rogerborg]

6 minutes ago, Tackle said:

we're not in a perfect world, far from it, & the Airsoft world has a large population of div's, Walt's, & generally small dicked losers who suffer with some kind of "premature ejaculation" in their trigger finger.

I think I'll stick with what we've got, in the knowledge that I won't end up in a&e due to other peoples fuckups.

 

A thousand times this.  What we've got works, and we can have fun with it.  If someone's crept a little bit over, or they spooge a short burst of full auto within 10m or whatever the site limit is, it's no real biggie in the grand scheme of things.

[Adolf Hamster]

10 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

See https://desertfoxevents.com/Desert-Fox-Events-Manual.pdf

 

Rather filmsim, LARPy and over complicated, but as near as I can make out:

 

AEG, pistol, shotgun and GBBR, 1.5J and semi-auto only.

 

LMG/MMG, 2J,  50 foot / 15m MED and max 30rps(!)

 

DMR/Boltie, 2.8J, 100'/30m MED (and as though it's not bad enough having the same energy limits, DMRs can carry a carbine, snipers can only carry a pistol secondary. WTF?)

 

But this is where is gets a bit interesting:

 

SMG or auto-shotgun, 1J but full auto, unlike 1.5J AEGs

 

 

It'd never take off here because everyone tunes for 350fps - heck, my MP5K with a 247mm barrel inside a suppressor is shooting at 340fps now.  But I do quite like the general principle of different energy limits for full auto, semi-auto with no MED, and semi-auto with MED.

 

that's exactly what i'm talking about.

 

i doubt it'd work so well for regular skirmish days given the difficulty in maintaining even very simple rules, but i can see a game with a bunch of decent folks running that kind of ruleset being pretty fun.

 

although that said any airsoft game with a bunch of decent folks tends to be fun regardless.

[Speedbird_666]

14 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

See https://desertfoxevents.com/Desert-Fox-Events-Manual.pdf

 

 

Makes for an interesting read - I like the idea, but like you say, difficult to implement.

[lukeB]

I have noticed in the last few weeks, that games have been more of a hose fest than normal.

[DerDer]

13 minutes ago, lukeB said:

I have noticed in the last few weeks, that games have been more of a hose fest than normal.

Might be players making up for lost time or getting through their ammo stockpile. 

[Niktimes3]

I think sites in the south need to rethink there DMR rules for woodland/ outside games as I’ve had my m4 dmr for 2years. I played today with it and was told it’s to hot 370fps 1.41J on a 0.32 BB the site lim is 1.40J. Around my way the site limits range from no J just 420fps. 1.64J no fps stated, 1.40j or the best one is a site that banned dmr but snipers can run at 500fps

i think the uk law is 450fps & 1.85j For a dmr

[Hudson]

First of all; big necropost. 😅

 

Secondly; UK law doesn't recognise DMRs or anything like that regarding Airsoft.

 

You have the legal limit for single action and semi automatic at 2.5J iirc, but for safety's sake, sites will obviously set it at a lower level, which for DMRs is generally anything from 1.48 to 1.88J (Approx 400 to 450fps when measured on a 0.20), or 2.3J for single action rifles, but that's for safety & insurance.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Hudson

[Shamal]

22 minutes ago, Niktimes3 said:

I think sites in the south need to rethink there DMR rules for woodland/ outside games as I’ve had my m4 dmr for 2years. I played today with it and was told it’s to hot 370fps 1.41J on a 0.32 BB the site lim is 1.40J. Around my way the site limits range from no J just 420fps. 1.64J no fps stated, 1.40j or the best one is a site that banned dmr but snipers can run at 500fps

i think the uk law is 450fps & 1.85j For a dmr

I think snipers have a longer m.e.d.

Than dmr.

 

[Cannonfodder]

1 hour ago, Niktimes3 said:

I think

That's where you went wrong, please don't do it again 

 

From what I can decipher from that word salad is that you're moaning that you took a hot gun to a site and couldn't use it. Next time check beforehand as not every site has the same power limits