Vulpiness Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 I understand why there is so many M4s, but how is it possible? There are more m4 models than there are other types of airsoft. I am very confused, how is this sustainable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Moderator Jedi_Master Posted February 16, 2019 Head Moderator Share Posted February 16, 2019 Simply because the M4 is THE gun of choice. AR-15 platform has varients, is customisable, and looks good. Because it is popular means more manufactorers make them, the price point is in a range that is affordable, and so they are easily obtainable. No real mystery; airsoft is a niche sport and the majority of airsoft players live in the developed world where the US culture has influence. Additionally, new players get a common gun that is widely used and recommended, the M4 is a good starting gun before moving on to something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Tackle Posted February 16, 2019 Moderators Share Posted February 16, 2019 what he said lol. I get fed up with "new" aegs with weird names & acronyms, only to find out its just another AR variant, but to be fair its the only gun you can buy that almost everyone else owns, yet yours can be very different from theirs thanks to the seemingly unlimited amount of add-ons available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortal Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Been around a long time and civilians can also own them so there's a large market for personalising in both cases. Or for specific roles & uses etc. Capitalist Meccano variety & choice guns.... the opposite of Commy motherland everyone's the same thinks the same guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulpiness Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 17 minutes ago, Jedi_Master said: Simply because the M4 is THE gun of choice. AR-15 platform has varients, is customisable, and looks good. Because it is popular means more manufactorers make them, the price point is in a range that is affordable, and so they are easily obtainable. No real mystery; airsoft is a niche sport and the majority of airsoft players live in the developed world where the US culture has influence. Additionally, new players get a common gun that is widely used and recommended, the M4 is a good starting gun before moving on to something else. This is all true, but there are so very many of them, that they can't sell very many of one model in a niche economy I don't understand how it is an ever expanding range of M4s with apparently no reduction in models, are there so many that half of them are from the mid 90s and jsut never sold? I mean there's this one here and there that sells like hotcakes, but all this address why there are so many, not how. How is this sustainable? Who is buying all these M4s? There are allot of M4s, honestly I think too many, and almost none of them are even interesting, I really am not seeing why they would stay in business. I mean consumer choice is top notch, I understand why people buy M4s, what I don;t understand is how half the manufactures haven't given up or gone bust. Is it parts maybe? M4s are mostly all interchangeable so they they make money selling bits of their M4 to existing m4 owners and the BB-sling bit is just a formality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 @Vulpiness sorry, not even an interesting comment, let alone question, therefore unworthy of a considered riposte. Hence, I leave you with....... 👅👅👅 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted February 16, 2019 Supporters Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Vulpiness said: How is this sustainable? Because these are toys which cost pennies to make but which sell at retail for hundreds of pounds. Once you've amortised the costs of a V2 gearbox and receiver, you can churn out new variants for very little extra cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albiscuit Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 I get her point to be honest.. I understand the other points but from an economic point of view it does not ‘seem’ sustainable that each manufacturer has about 89 versions of effectively the same gun in such a niche market. They must be selling, but I can’t see how or where... I suppose the prop/movie markets ammount to a fair percentage but I do invisage warehouses full of the fucking things.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulpiness Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 Just now, Rogerborg said: Because these are toys which cost pennies to make but which sell at retail for hundreds of pounds. Once you've amortised the costs of a V2 gearbox and receiver, you can churn out new variants for very little extra cost. D: holyshit you're right. Is £15,000 for new mold, sell 120 and you've made back the money twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Adolf Hamster Posted February 16, 2019 Supporters Share Posted February 16, 2019 the reason there's so many is because it's such a modular platform, you churn out 1 or 2 reciever types and just slap on whatever barrel/handguard/stock configuration you like and bingo you have a range of a dozen "different" guns. the reason it's so popular is a combination of the above (as a user just slap on whatever parts you want) and the fact that ergonomically speaking it's just a well designed platform, plus it's existing popularity means spares and upgrades are easy got adds momentum to the whole affair (f2000 hop units, i will say no more) if anything it's a wonder that there's such a wide range of guns that aren't m4's in the airsoft market, given some designs are pretty niche. i mean i've still yet to see anyone field an mg42 that wasn't me, i mean the local shop had them, lots of them, and they sold them all (i should know i bought the last one) so where are they all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulpiness Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 30 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said: the reason there's so many is because it's such a modular platform, you churn out 1 or 2 reciever types and just slap on whatever barrel/handguard/stock configuration you like and bingo you have a range of a dozen "different" guns. the reason it's so popular is a combination of the above (as a user just slap on whatever parts you want) and the fact that ergonomically speaking it's just a well designed platform, plus it's existing popularity means spares and upgrades are easy got adds momentum to the whole affair (f2000 hop units, i will say no more) if anything it's a wonder that there's such a wide range of guns that aren't m4's in the airsoft market, given some designs are pretty niche. i mean i've still yet to see anyone field an mg42 that wasn't me, i mean the local shop had them, lots of them, and they sold them all (i should know i bought the last one) so where are they all? Re-enactors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koppel Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 4 hours ago, Vulpiness said: Because these are toys which cost pennies to make but which sell at retail for hundreds of pounds. Double this, the actual materials cost in an AEG is sub $2, hence reusing the same molds as many times as you can. Also the patents, trademarks & image rights to the M16/Ar15 platform expired a long long long time ago. Hence all the variants in both the real steel and airsoft markets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortal Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 There's a big home defense market in the USA and they will cater for people of all shapes and sizes, capable or otherwise. Over there (plus various other countries where laws are sane) are also quite big on sport shooting; competition rifles etc. They're as changeable and as blingy as the airsoft market but they're running the real deal so there's a ton of money to be made. Anything that may give you an edge, work better for your frame etc is going to sell one way or another. Even if it's psychological. Saying that they're not all running AR-15 rifs but many parts are certainly cross-compatible as the models may be very similar or based from them. Evolution. 9mm variants are popular due to the cheaper ammo but the basic shape of the gun isn't far from the original base. Airsoft is always immitating these markets and the military. The main focus that is different is on the internals for Airsoft, the exterior is just imitation. And even then there's only so much tech to differentiate brands and models. Not much changes really... perhaps digital is the biggest evolution of recent years. Bespoke stuff isn't as popular in airsoft as the RIFs, parts and mags are either more expensive or harder to come by. Bespoke requires a lot of R&D, more than they may make back unless a decent contract is pushing them (non airsoft). If that bespoke option ceases production it's a real pain to keep it running. So back to a generic model most go, it's a safe bet and they work. That works for both the manufacturer, the whole chain all the way down to the end user. Same for the real steel world really. Hardly anybody wants a RIF that looks like a nerf or kids toy even though that's exactly what they are. Toys. So the big boys are the AR and AK. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulpiness Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 6 hours ago, koppel said: Double this, the actual materials cost in an AEG is sub $2, hence reusing the same molds as many times as you can. Also the patents, trademarks & image rights to the M16/Ar15 platform expired a long long long time ago. Hence all the variants in both the real steel and airsoft markets. This true, but I feel like patent law in airsoft is a joke with how many G3s and NP5s there are. 1 hour ago, Immortal said: There's a big home defense market in the USA and they will cater for people of all shapes and sizes, capable or otherwise. Hardly anybody wants a RIF that looks like a nerf or kids toy even though that's exactly what they are. Toys. you just remind me, in the US they give little kids airsofts to teach them gun safety, and as an introduction to shooting. Daddies got an m16 and a 1911, and he's buying for little timmy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Cam Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 It also makes mag swapping between players easy. I usually carry a high cap m4 mag on me in case one of my mates or someone on my team needs it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Druid799 Posted February 17, 2019 Supporters Share Posted February 17, 2019 Same reason you play Airsoft in a lot of Eastern Europe countries it’s wall to wall AK’s on scurmish sites , it’s ‘the’ gun of your political system .😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky blue eyes Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Plus there is a ton of videos on youtube of people disasembling and reassembling the little beggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasaran Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 On 16/02/2019 at 23:25, Adolf Hamster said: i mean i've still yet to see anyone field an mg42 that wasn't me, i mean the local shop had them, lots of them, and they sold them all (i should know i bought the last one) so where are they all? Saw one fielded by a guy at the woodland site run by firesupport near bourne in lincolnshire. Looked pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Adolf Hamster Posted February 18, 2019 Supporters Share Posted February 18, 2019 41 minutes ago, kasaran said: Saw one fielded by a guy at the woodland site run by firesupport near bourne in lincolnshire. Looked pretty good. yeah, it's a head turner for sure, although its amazing how folk seem to assume a big gun means it's nasty to be shot by when in reality it's no worse than any other gun on the field. it's why i'm hpa'ing it, if i'm going to lug around something that massive and heavy it might as well be an effective suppression device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clumpyedge Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said: yeah, it's a head turner for sure, although its amazing how folk seem to assume a big gun means it's nasty to be shot by when in reality it's no worse than any other gun on the field. it's why i'm hpa'ing it, if i'm going to lug around something that massive and heavy it might as well be an effective suppression device. You say that but a guy at our site turned up with his (pretty sure he ordered from Europe) and it chrono'd at a stupidly high FPS and was really bloody loud too! should have seen the guys in the ques faces when he let rip with it. Unfortunately for him he couldn't use it due to the FPS issue but when he came back with it and had the issues sorted people were too scared to go near him 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albiscuit Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 The TM shotguns were like that when they were first became popular, If you turned up at The Mall with a breacher, or then a KSG or AA12 for a few weeks there was an aura about you. But then people clocked on they were not the bringer of doom everyone thought them to be. Can still be devastating in CQB though if used right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clumpyedge Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, Albiscuit said: The TM shotguns were like that when they were first became popular, If you turned up at The Mall with a breacher, or then a KSG or AA12 for a few weeks there was an aura about you. But then people clocked on they were not the bringer of doom everyone thought them to be. Can still be devastating in CQB though if used right! I must admit there is a slight worry for the skin when you wonder if the person is going to use 3 or 6 shot 🤣 Having taken all 6 bb's to the back of my hand before I can tell you that the aura sometimes has some truth behind the "fear" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Adolf Hamster Posted February 18, 2019 Supporters Share Posted February 18, 2019 15 minutes ago, clumpyedge said: You say that but a guy at our site turned up with his (pretty sure he ordered from Europe) and it chrono'd at a stupidly high FPS and was really bloody loud too! should have seen the guys in the ques faces when he let rip with it. Unfortunately for him he couldn't use it due to the FPS issue but when he came back with it and had the issues sorted people were too scared to go near him 🤣 true, but that's not unique to that gun, any gun can be hot. funny mine was the opposite story, when i got her new she was firing half a joule at 20rps, which compared to your average aeg made it probably the least scary gun on the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albiscuit Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, clumpyedge said: I must admit there is a slight worry for the skin when you wonder if the person is going to use 3 or 6 shot 🤣 Having taken all 6 bb's to the back of my hand before I can tell you that the aura sometimes has some truth behind the "fear" I came home with what looked like measles after 'the box of death' game at The Mall once due to a KSG!! Was fun though.. But it is funny how some weapons have an aura about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clumpyedge Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said: true, but that's not unique to that gun, any gun can be hot. funny mine was the opposite story, when i got her new she was firing half a joule at 20rps, which compared to your average aeg made it probably the least scary gun on the field Agreed but our site rarely has anything turn up with an rps that is what I would call decent in terms of a support weapon so I guess that was more the intimidation factor as well, even my old G&P mk46 didn't come close to that and I thought that was pretty tasty in terms of good rps. haha bet you kept some heads down with that! 🤣 3 minutes ago, Albiscuit said: I came home with what looked like measles after 'the box of death' game at The Mall once due to a KSG!! Was fun though.. But it is funny how some weapons have an aura about them. Agreed, or how some gun platforms mean you are automatically a cheater but I digress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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