Weapon 762 vs spirtitus

[Shaun Haynes]

  Anyone else seen the shot fired  by spirtitus at weapon 762 because they "stole" the mini chest  rig and are making a clone of i like they did hs d3cr rig. 

 

I get there annoyed that the idea has been  cloned but surely if they never copyrighted or patented  it they dont have a leg to stand on. 

 

Personly  i think a lot of company's  steal  idea from each other now anyway. Plus not everyone want to  spent the    bigger bucks that a real  steel sprititus one cost

[Lozart]

TMC have been done over copyright infringement before. I've not seen the case you're alluding to but what makes you think that Spiritus don't hold the rights to their own design?

 

 

[Georgeturner2001]

If spiritus produce the best version of their product they can then they don’t need to worry about copies or reproductions!

 

 

[Shaun Haynes]

 Been all other  there instagram story. 

 

Not saying they dont have a copy right. Not saying whos right and wrong  here but Just  seem like a very unprofessional way to go about it from both companies.

[Druid799]

Oh boo hoo ! 762 are retailers they don’t make it they just sell it !  if they can get kit cheap from the Far East and people want to buy it ? Crack on , if some yank business can’t get its legal act together to protect ‘there designs’ (when you come down to it unless you’ve come up with some amazing new never seen before design then there all just variations of the same thing really) that’s there problem .

always happened always will .

so suck it up cup cake . 

[L3wisD]

Selling "Stolen goods"...? what are they on.

 

Spiritus should blame Alibaba!

[Tackle]

Do spiritus expect airsofters to spend £300 on a rig for occasional use, #outoftheirtinyminds.

I'd buy the copy even if I could afford the real mcoy, I base my opinion on issued brit kit I've used in the field, heavy as fuck & at times poorly made, so likely to let you down, whereas even the modern knock off kit is 100% better.

Anyway, everything in life is a rehash of something that's gone before, even if spiritus could get the copied kit banned, its no guarantee that people will then buy theirs ?.

[Druid799]

2 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Do spiritus expect airsofters to spend £300 on a rig for occasional use, #outoftheirtinyminds.

I'd buy the copy even if I could afford the real mcoy, I base my opinion on issued brit kit I've used in the field, heavy as fuck & at times poorly made, so likely to let you down, whereas even the modern knock off kit is 100% better.

Anyway, everything in life is a rehash of something that's gone before, even if spiritus could get the copied kit banned, its no guarantee that people will then buy theirs ?.

Spot on bud . 

[Druid799]

Well just been stoking the fires , went on there instagram and commented on the fact that they’ve accused 762of ‘stolen valour’ And what utter bullshit that comment is ! Now were’d I put my popcorn ? 😈😈😈

[Lozart]

47 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Do spiritus expect airsofters to spend £300 on a rig for occasional use, #outoftheirtinyminds.

 

 

Of course they don't, but then airsofters are NOT their primary market.

[Tackle]

27 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

Of course they don't, but then airsofters are NOT their primary market.

Put another way then, who do then expect to pay such high prices then ?, LE & other government/corporate entities who are essentially not spending their own money, but using a dc3r rig as an example, with no plate capacity, can't see that many takers, other than gear whores

[Lozart]

5 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Put another way then, who do then expect to pay such high prices then ?, LE & other government/corporate entities who are essentially not spending their own money, but using a dc3r rig as an example, with no plate capacity, can't see that many takers, other than gear whores

 

They and all of their ilk are aiming at individuals that have a requirement for top end kit. Be that LE, military or private individuals that value quality of construction and design over getting a bargain.

To be quite honest this is the same argument that happens over and over again from airsofters that the high end gucci kit is "too expensive" when it's not made for them. Same as Crye et al, they're designed for high stress situations not a weekend skirmish! 

[Tackle]

Without a doubt, which is why I cringe when I see players spending £200 on a pair of crye keks, wtf is that about ?

[M_P]

To be fair irrespective of cost and which market a product is designed for, if someone's stolen your design and reproducing it then you have every right to be upset about it. I'm not sure how patenting works when it comes to stuff such as tactical gear, I'd assume you can't protect every single design rather than specific features or similar. I'm sure CKinnerley will be along shortly to correct that haha

 

The pricing is what it is, we have enough threads on the subject, but generally you get the quality you pay for. As lozart said, it's not for everyone but those who can afford and would be interested likely won't have an issue with the pricing, they're aware of where the money goes

 

Using the phrase 'stolen valor' seems a tad silly as it's improperly used and you'd think someone in that market would know better but hey

[Druid799]

40 minutes ago, M_P said:

Using the phrase 'stolen valor' seems a tad silly as it's improperly used and you'd think someone in that market would know better but hey

There Murcan ! Yea basically what I thought as well , hence I went and did a bit of shitsturing ! 😇

[Adolf Hamster]

this is airsoft, when i was working on my project a common question from various folks who didn't understand the industry was why i wasn't considering patenting anything and the simple fact is in this industry patents don't mean squat.

 

i mean consider that literally the entire AEG industry is built around ripping off tm, or look at the odin speedloader, i ordered one from evike when they first came out it was not long after it arrived did clone versions spring up all over the place.

[Lozart]

1 hour ago, M_P said:

To be fair irrespective of cost and which market a product is designed for, if someone's stolen your design and reproducing it then you have every right to be upset about it. I'm not sure how patenting works when it comes to stuff such as tactical gear, is assume you can't protect every single design rather than specificity features or similar. I'm sure CKinnerley will be along shortly to correct that haha

 

The pricing is what it is, we have enough threads on the subject, but generally you get the quality you pay for. As lozart said, it's not for everyone but those can afford and would be interested likely won't have an issue with the pricing, they're aware of where the money goes

 

Using the phrase 'stolen valor' seems a tad silly as it's improperly used and you'd think someone in that market would know better but hey

 

The problem as far as the patenting/copyrighting thing goes is that the same laws don't apply in all markets. As evidenced by this little gem https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-china-u-s-intellectual-property/china-uncovers-almost-1600-us-related-intellectual-property-infringements-this-year-idUKKBN1D90AJ

 

That said, I wholeheartedly agree that Spiritus, Haley, Team Wendy (they successfully took FMA to court over their copy of the exfil helmet) etc should defend their IP rigorously but unfortunately in the case of some of these companies, as they're run by people more used to kicking in doors and dealing with complaints 5.56mm at a time they tend to have a rather "bullish" attitude when it comes to representing themselves online. Which mostly makes them look a bit childish to any and all observing from the sidelines!

[Druid799]

21 minutes ago, Lozart said:

That said, I wholeheartedly agree that Spiritus, Haley, Team Wendy (they successfully took FMA to court over their copy of the exfil helmet) etc should defend their IP rigorously but unfortunately in the case of some of these companies, as they're run by people more used to kicking in doors and dealing with complaints 5.56mm at a time they tend to have a rather "bullish" attitude when it comes to representing themselves online. Which mostly makes them look a bit childish to any and all observing from the sidelines!

Very true indeed mate if you create somthing it should be protected BUT playing devils advocate you’d think they’d have the sense to make sure they had decent legal representation (we are talking about the USA were you can get sued for burping at the wrong time if your not carful !)  and it’s NOT as if Chinese company’s ripping everyone else off is a new phenomenon now is it ? Which to be honest is the main reason I don’t have a lot of sympathy for them in this situation .  

[Lozart]

Just now, Druid799 said:

Very true indeed mate if you create somthing it should be protected BUT playing devils advocate you’d think they’d have the sense to make sure they had decent legal representation (we are talking about the USA were you can get sued for burping at the wrong time if your not carful !)  and it’s NOT as if Chinese company’s ripping everyone else off is a new phenomenon now is it ? Which to be honest is the main reason I don’t have a lot of sympathy for them in this situation .  

 

I would say that they've tried the standard "Cease and Desist" route and having had no luck have decided to aim for the customers sense of patriotic indignation. They're a small company and I would wonder just how much of a budget they're willing to spunk on what is a pretty frivolous lawsuit. I very much doubt that TMC in general and Weapon762 in particular are actually having much of an impact on their revenue stream, unless they actually ARE trying to get airsofters to buy their stuff!

 

I guess the problem comes for them when someone goes out and buys a knock off without realising and them has a go at them for it being cheap and shit. Of course, if you don't realise that NOT paying $300+ for a Micro Fight chest rig means it's either very second hand or a fake then you deserve all you get in my book.

[Druid799]

1 hour ago, Lozart said:

decided to aim for the customers sense of patriotic indignation. 

 

if you don't realise that NOT paying $300+ for a Micro Fight chest rig means it's either very second hand or a fake then you deserve all you get in my book.

Think your spot on with both points mate , Me personally I think they well and truly dipped out on point one though as you don’t really see that much HK labeled kit for sale in the states , you do get it just not as much as the rest of the world , Plus the realy hypocritical bit is the likes of Evike simply re-brand kit (lancer/avenger/etc) from the very manufacturers these high end US ones are trying to stop copying there kit !

Me personally I couldn’t give a flying what ever about Murcan patriotism! 

 

point two ? Again completely agree with you ,  If you think your £25 rig is the same as a £300 one then your f**king idiot and deserve what ever comes your way ! 🤦‍♂️

[TheFull9]

Literally too many wrong assumptions in one thread.  I'm not going to attempt to address every single one.

 

I have been in facebook messenger contact with Dean Wolfenstein who is one of the very top blokes in Spiritus (if not a co-founder), he runs all of their social media himself, takes all the pictures, makes all the posts etc etc; ex US army infantry, many deployments done in shit 99% of people here can't imagine (me included) and as far as product design he's a big contributor to the resounding success of Spiritus as a business in the US market (mil, LE, hunters, competitors etc).  I founded 'the spiritus symptoms' on facebook which you can look up and was the only group about the brand last I checked; it isn't big by any means, but Dean became my co-admin shortly after I founded it, making it essentially the 'official' group for the brand.  I was also talked through their line up of gear at SHOT 18 by Zane Vogel, who is definitely a co-founder and essentially the head honcho -  none of that makes me special it's just facts.  I don't say any of this to 'name drop' either or anything like that, they give me precisely zero free shit and I'm certainly not close friends with them, I just have some minor association, they know me just about well enough to recognise me in person.  However because of that I do have an understanding  ofwhat they're actually saying, whereas a lot of folks in here are labouring under very incorrect assumptions.

 

I watched the live stream where this issue was raised, I actually sign-posted Dean to EBA since he was curious as to which sites were selling the TMC knock-off of their Mk3 Chassis.  I didn't make any comment on my opinions either way, just provided some information to a friend which he would've found eventually on his own anyway.  My personal stance is that it is a very small number of people in the venn diagram sector who would've bought the original product but were dissuaded from doing so on account of the existence of the clone.  However I also absolutely empathise with people who have come up with a highly innovative product and then had it reverse engineered and 100% cloned by exploitative types in China.  People treat the issue like it's black and white but personally I don't believe that to be the case, there is lots of grey in the middle.  Oh also the Spiritus setup doesn't cost $300, you're looking at between 160 and 200 USD for a setup (in America, where almost all their customers are) which is still not a cheap chest rig for most people, sure.  But it is truly top quality and the 300 figure is (roughly) 30-45% wrong, which I would call an error margin large enough to be noteworthy at the least.

 

'They should have patents' well how one earth do you know they don't?  As if patents stop the likes of TMC.  'This should be done through lawyers' well how exactly do you reckon you have information contrary to the fact that legal rumblings aren't being made right now, or won't be made in the near future?  Please lay down your empirical, peer-reviewed data that evidences any of your claims.

 

Anyone who thinks the comments like Stolen Valour etc were anything but hyperbolic comedy, I implore you to send your sarcasm detectors off for calibration, because they are categorically long overdue a service.  None of the comments along those lines are intended to be taken the way you are taking them, that much I can guarantee.  I get why these things can come across how they do because we are ALL guilty of forgetting that we are not known/understood by most people who see what we put out there online, but again significant misunderstandings have certainly happened with regard that issue.

 

Anybody who has sacrificed relationships, family connections, risked huge sums of money, worked 80 hours a week for months/years on end to create a thriving business with hugely successful products from a start of nothing, but still feels Spiritus is in the wrong in terms of being disgruntled by the fact they're getting ripped off, I 1000% applaud your absolute integrity of conviction.  That is a hugely impressive and balls'y thing you're doing.  Though imho if you don't fit that category, you could maybe do with piping down on the issue.  Then again I think the best thing about America is the 1st amendment to the constitution and if you want to just spout regardless of logic, you crack the hell on.  I'm behind you all the way in that respect.

[Lozart]

In fairness the $300 was a guess plucked from the ether. I totally agree with you though @CKinnerley, unfortunately all the while there's a market for a cheap copy, the Chinese will keep hammering out clones be it chest rigs, helmets, industrial controllers or CG125s! 

 

But yeah, 100% agree with them defending their IP. If I could justify it, I'd get a genuine one. I really like the look of them!

[clumpyedge]

So I bought a real one (I'm not getting into the I can afford real steel/I cant afford real steel argument as its been done to death) because I want to support an independent company that as I do with the majority of things I buy when and if I can. The problem I have with this and if I word it right I think people will see the point spiritus are making.

 

Lets say you're at work, you have this amazing idea that will no doubt benefit you and maybe get you a promotion of some sort and ultimately more money/better life/better position etc etc. some douche of a guy comes along and steals your idea presents it as his own and then gets all the praise and rewards you should have been getting...how would you feel?

 

Yes I'm well aware the airsoft brands etc that run primarily in china don't give a shit for trademarks and other such legalities, I mean look at TM for example after the first run of the new recoils they had to stop running the trades (although I think now they have started doing them again) I don't think this should be seen as spiritus being childish (regardless of their posts on social media) I think this should be seen more as a relativity small company not wanting an airsoft brand ripping off their idea and essentially stopping some of their market.

 

I'm not sure how this will go down and I'd hate if this came across as elitist but (cue the I'm not racist but comparisons) as someone that enjoys spending my hard earned cash (I work long hours and sacrifice a fair amount of my personal time to be able to get overtime etc) on stuff I like and that is the genuine it kind of erks me a little that I saved for a few months to be able to get the kit I run now and TMC have decided to rip off spiritus and make it "more affordable" to me that now makes the hard work I put in saving for the real deal absolutely pointless. I know most will probably say tough shit, that's life and yes you're right that is life but there comes a time when morals and decorum come into things and unfortunately I see a lack of in not just companies doing this type of thing but also more and more in airsoft as whole at the moment.

 

You can make the cost vs need argument all you like even in the world outside of airsoft, who is anyone to argue what someone else spends their money on. So in my circle of friends some people get a mortgage, some people rent. The people that rent, it could be argued could have spent more time saving in order to buy a place but its their choice not to do so.

 

 

[sonofsammo]

19 hours ago, Druid799 said:

Well just been stoking the fires , went on there instagram and commented on the fact that they’ve accused 762of ‘stolen valour’ And what utter bullshit that comment is ! Now were’d I put my popcorn ? 😈😈😈

Linky?
I can't find it on Twitter at all.... Can find their account, but only old tweets - nothing from this year. Please help this twittard...

[TheFull9]

Twitter?? There's no tacticool gun/gear stuff on Twitter.  Seriously.  Facebook and IG are entirely the realms for that kinda thing.  The one and only automatic robot account I have that just auto reposts content from other platforms is my Twitter.