Which retailers in the UK accept Just-Cos Cosplayer Insurance?

[Rogerborg]

7 hours ago, Galvatron said:

 

I wonder if he was the same smooth brain I saw at Birmingham ComicCon, also in riot gear and open carrying an MP7 in clear view of the public. 🙄

 

Birmingham does seem to attract them.

[BigStew]

8 hours ago, Galvatron said:

 

I wonder if he was the same smooth brain I saw at Birmingham ComicCon, also in riot gear and open carrying an MP7 in clear view of the public. 🙄

Umbrella corp patches? Those lot appear to be fairly special. Anime kids walking around with swords is not quite as bad. Party of me admired their confidence to go around in public in costume I always changed at the venue.

[Galvatron]

4 hours ago, BigStew said:

Umbrella corp patches?

 

Bingo!

 

A lot of people today seem to be divorced from a self-preservation instinct or reality. Even when I was a teenager playing airsoft, I understood the sheer stupidity of open carry of realistic looking weapons because of how quickly and tragically it can escalate.

 

Just to think the OP struggled to understand why so many in this thread voiced strong opinions about Just-Cos' legitimacy. That some cosplayers lack self-awareness of their own and the public's safety with open carry vindicates those opinions.

[BigStew]

37 minutes ago, Galvatron said:

 

Bingo!

 

A lot of people today seem to be divorced from a self-preservation instinct or reality. Even when I was a teenager playing airsoft, I understood the sheer stupidity of open carry of realistic looking weapons because of how quickly and tragically it can escalate.

 

Just to think the OP struggled to understand why so many in this thread voiced strong opinions about Just-Cos' legitimacy. That some cosplayers lack self-awareness of their own and the public's safety with open carry vindicates those opinions.

Just after I started playing so maybe 19 had to catch a train as no car or lift, some rando asked what instrument I was carrying in my bag (M16A2) had to bullshit about being a musician for 10 minutes because I didn't want to have to explain airsoft and too timid/polite to tell him to bugger off.

[Cannonfodder]

Nosey buggers and people who think they're funny were the reason I switched from a hard case to a soft rifle bag for travelling on public transport. All too often I'd get some twat who thought they were funny saying "what's in the box, a machine gun?".

[superwok]

Using the insurance for its intended purpose seems pointless, yet it has allowed me to acquire multiple RIFs without the requirement for them to be two-toned. This long discussion brimming with passionate opinions and thoughts boils down to a simple truth:

 

If you're buying it strictly as insurance, then indeed, it's an unnecessary expense. However, if you're spending £20 to bypass the two-tone requirement for purchasing a RIF — especially as a casual player unable to attend games monthly to secure a UKRA but still eager to invest in something new — then it proves to be invaluable.

 

Thanks to this Just-Cos Cosplayer Insurance, I've successfully purchased 3 RIFs.

 

Now, you may or may not agree with this method, but any concerns should be directed at the retailer accepting it; it's their responsibility to decide whether to sell or not.

 

 

[GenuineGerman]

Whilst I agree with @superwokpremise that for casual players it is hard to obtain and get UKARA current, I can’t help but think this leaves a bitter taste for those that go regularly and get UKARA current. 
 

I am in no way saying that superwok is the at fault here or that I blame him. It’s simply frustrating that the very retailers that agree to partake in this scheme, that lots of people subscribe too, are finding a way around it. 
 

 

[superwok]

If you have a bitter taste in your mouth because you feel as if you earn a UKARA because you play so often then take it up with the retailers. 

 

I have been playing airsoft for just over 10 years now, In my 20's I could go every week but not so much now, so to it from the other side, I see it as a punishment that I cannot buy a new rif because I haven't been able to play as much as I used to, to keep an active UKARA

[GenuineGerman]

5 minutes ago, superwok said:

If you have a bitter taste in your mouth because you feel as if you earn a UKARA because you play so often then take it up with the retailers. 

 

I have been playing airsoft for just over 10 years now, In my 20's I could go every week but not so much now, so to it from the other side, I see it as a punishment that I cannot buy a new rif because I haven't been able to play as much as I used to, to keep an active UKARA

Like I said I wasn’t having a pop at you and I do understand your argument and emphasise with you. The rules and laws clearly aren’t perfect and penalise those that shouldn’t always be penalised. 
 

I think perhaps as a collective we could come together and find a solution that benefits everyone that wants to play and not just buy a rif for nefarious reason. 
 

The issue you have highlighted has quite simply shows how easy it is for bad actors to purchase rif’s.
 

I was in no way suggesting you are a bad actor or anything other than a good bloke who just wants to enjoy Airsoft.  
 

 

[Rogerborg]

45 minutes ago, GenuineGerman said:

I was in no way suggesting you are a bad actor or anything other than a good bloke who just wants to enjoy Airsoft.

 

Isn't airsoft predicated on honouring both the letter and spirit of the rules, even if that results in personal disadvantage?  🤔

[Cannonfodder]

Despite playing regularly I haven't had an active site membership for a couple of years but I've still managed to get my hands on rifs, it just takes a bit more effort.

 

The big issue with schemes like just cos is that our defence was given on the basis that the airsoft community would be self policing. So when retailers are actively looking to promote ways of selling rifs to people without them ever setting foot on a site it comes across as a big middle finger to those who put in the work getting our defence. Not to mention the fact that said defence could easily be taken away at the stroke of a pen so they're potentially putting the hobby (and their own business) at risk

[Pseudotectonic]

It does seem to defeat the whole premise of VCRA if anyone can bypass it for £20

 

It is just a legal loophole, that is what it is

 

Although arguably, VCRA is only a deterrent really, if one is determined to do crime they can rattle can a two-tone with a £5 can of black paint

 

And if you are really just an airsofter playing legitimate airsoft, I have to agree £20 is less than three games of rental which costed me £90

 

Although the three rental games actually helped inform my first purchase so it can reduce the risk of wrong purchases, if someone jumps the gun and invest in something but later regret it, that is going to cost more than the £70 difference (worse if someone decides airsoft isn't for them within three games)

 

So I guess (as a new player) if you are certain about the RIF you want and not regret it, £70 is £70

 

Of course it doesn't apply to older players who already have their own RIF which is just a matter of playing another three games vs £20 bypass, in this case I don't see it as much of a problem

 

The only scenario where this might become a problem is if someone uses the £20 bypass to get an RIF and then do a crime, which might make the court examine the "standard of proof of defence" question i.e. is a photo sufficient proof of "organisation and holding of permitted activities" (as per Defences to an offence under section 36 of the 2006 Act or under paragraph 4 of Schedule 2 to that Act).

 

If a photo is sufficient, the loophole will stay.

 

If a photo is insufficient, the loophole is plugged, but the court will have to say what is considered sufficient.

 

And arguably a photo should be enough proof as this is probably a common standard of proof in other areas of laws.

--

 

PS on second thought, a photo alone is probably not enough, the retailer also needs to check a photo ID to make sure it is the same person in the photo, so the person should really be identifiable in the photo, along with the clear indication of the nature of the activity itself

[GenuineGerman]

2 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Isn't airsoft predicated on honouring both the letter and spirit of the rules, even if that results in personal disadvantage?  🤔

You are absolutely right. I don’t want to call into question people’s motivations but if for example I were reading this as a firearms officer I would be highly concerned by this thread. 

[superwok]

are you a firearms officer?

[JinxDuh]

Are you?

[Tackle]

I'm spartacus 🤪

[Jez_Armstrong]

How the fuck is this thread 6 pages deep 

 

From my reading it seems superwok is a quite decent person and has his head screwed on and doesn't seem the sort of person who wants a black gun to cause mischief with and the majority of his replies have been quite mature, sure he used a system no one agrees with but in the end it's the retailer who is selling guns to people under this made up system 

 

I know we fought for the defence, being a player of 20+ years in the hobby I'm a pre vcra player and remember how our hobby was in danger of being sacked off so I understand the argument 

 

But being someone who has bought and sold over 700 airsoft guns in my time in this hobby, I can only think of a handful of times anyone on this forum in private sales has asked me for a defence 

 

I can guarantee I could message someone selling a gun and offer to pay up right away and won't be asked for a defence 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Just seems a bit of a joke how we can be so hell bent on making sure retailers follow the rules to a T but second hand sales it's do as you like? 

 

Am I wrong? 

[Colin Allen]

5 hours ago, superwok said:

If you have a bitter taste in your mouth because you feel as if you earn a UKARA because you play so often then take it up with the retailers. 

 

I have been playing airsoft for just over 10 years now, In my 20's I could go every week but not so much now, so to it from the other side, I see it as a punishment that I cannot buy a new rif because I haven't been able to play as much as I used to, to keep an active UKARA

To keep an active UKARA registration, you just have to play 3 games at one site in more than 56 days.  Playing three times a year at the same site qualifies you; is that really so difficult for you?

[Dan Robinson]

32 minutes ago, Jez_Armstrong said:

I can only think of a handful of times anyone on this forum in private sales has asked me for a defence 

 

I have never been asked - and on the occasion I sold a pew - we actually met at a gameday for the handover, and considering the guy's costume, it was fair to say he was an airsofter LOL

 

25 minutes ago, Colin Allen said:

To keep an active UKARA registration, you just have to play 3 games at one site in more than 56 days.  Playing three times a year at the same site qualifies you; is that really so difficult for you?

 

I made the point several pages ago that I will find it difficult if not impossible to maintain a UKARA defense in the manner it was intended as the boy and i will be living abroad for most of the year.  There are many reasons the OP might not be able to get a UKARA, from being a carer to an international spy - he hasn't told us the reasons (which might assuage the negativity towards him) which is his right not to do.  3 games in three months isn't a lot if you're monied and present.  Not everybody is.

 

That being said...   I find the Just-Cos thing rather fishy, and feel that there should be an alternative way to provide a defense.

 

32 minutes ago, Jez_Armstrong said:

How the fuck is this thread 6 pages deep 

 

Because this is a knitting circle for overgrown children who like to run around with toy guns shooting each other 

[Cannonfodder]

1 hour ago, Jez_Armstrong said:

But being someone who has bought and sold over 700 airsoft guns in my time in this hobby, I can only think of a handful of times anyone on this forum in private sales has asked me for a defence 

I'd say being a member of the forum for years and with a post count in the hundreds probably helps. While it's not definitive proof its certainly more likely that a long term member with many posts is going to be an airsofter than someone who only joined last week and has only made a couple of posts

[Colin Allen]

42 minutes ago, Dan Robinson said:

3 games in three months isn't a lot if you're monied and present

There is not a requirement to play three games in three months; it is three games in not less than 56 days.

[Dan Robinson]

Furry muff....  but in my case at least - it doesn't change the situation.  I might only be in the country for 60 days total, maybe less.  In that time I will have to fit in family visits all over the south of England, carry out any maintenance that needed on my house, plus the expense of staying in Airbnb and renting a car for the duration.  Depending on where I stay, I might not be able to attend my current regular site(s) here, so they might not be inclined to bend any rules to keep me UKARA'd; which I will need to buy any replacement pews or bring/send any back.

 

I have no doubt the OP has a genuine reason for the lack of game time; and being in the minority of a minority, establishing a legitimate defense is a looking tricky.

[Tackle]

@superwok  what is it exactly that your looking to buy from a retailer ?

I only ask as I haven't bought a rif from a retailer for about 15 years, probably the last time I had a valid ukara, anything Ive needed generally comes up in the classifieds at a greatly discounted price, & Tbh I've not had any gats let me down, only time that happened was a retailers website brand new ca mp5. 

[Enid_Puceflange]

15 hours ago, Tackle said:

@superwok  what is it exactly that your looking to buy from a retailer ?

I only ask as I haven't bought a rif from a retailer for about 15 years, probably the last time I had a valid ukara, anything Ive needed generally comes up in the classifieds at a greatly discounted price, & Tbh I've not had any gats let me down, only time that happened was a retailers website brand new ca mp5. 

Yup, to be fair, it’s only recently that I have wanted to buy something new, from a store as they were just released - new models.
Almost all of my purchases otherwise have been through here or other forums/groups

Never been asked for a defence 

[superwok]

17 hours ago, Tackle said:

@superwok  what is it exactly that your looking to buy from a retailer ?

I only ask as I haven't bought a rif from a retailer for about 15 years, probably the last time I had a valid ukara, anything Ive needed generally comes up in the classifieds at a greatly discounted price, & Tbh I've not had any gats let me down, only time that happened was a retailers website brand new ca mp5. 

 

I recently purchased an EMG Noveske N4. My local store does not stock this. Occasionally, I see similar rifs listed here and my past experiences buying and selling rifs through this platform have been positive.

 

However, I'm cautious with ads claiming the item is 'brand new,' 'never skirmished,' or 'used only in the garden,' especially when the asking price is nearly identical to a new item's cost. I prefer purchasing from retailers, so I can try them out, with the option to return if unsatisfied. Also with the added security provided by my credit card and to avoid the hassle of resolving issues with second-hand rifs not being as described. 

 

This forum is great for many things, like advice, selling and buying, dragging out threads over 6 pages from a simple question but you have very little protection over sales, other than paypal.