First Aid Kits

[Dan Robinson]

7 hours ago, Lozart said:

 

From UK law.co.uk:

 

What is negligent first aid?

Negligent first refers to cases where this type of treatment is given in a manner that is below acceptable standards or harmful.

 

Can first aiders be held liable?

If you have suffered preventable harm because you were administered first aid that you think was negligent call our advisors who will assess your case for free. 

 

Not case law example but it would appear that there is potential for a negligence claim.

 

 

The key word there though is "negligent".  Unless you're trying things like a tracheostomy, applying  a tourniquet, plaster or splint isn't going to get you in trouble. 

 

 

Anyway,  as any good tradesman knows.  The only first aid kit you need is a bit of leccy tape and some bog roll.

[Rogerborg]

14 hours ago, Dan Robinson said:

The only first aid kit you need is a bit of leccy tape

 

What colour works best?

[Lozart]

24 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

What colour works best?

 

Black. Obvs.

[Dan Robinson]

I've also had success with Blue.  Yellow and green are a bit shite - White gets dirty too easily.

[mightyjebus]

On 24/08/2023 at 14:18, Lozart said:

 

From UK law.co.uk:

 

What is negligent first aid?

Negligent first refers to cases where this type of treatment is given in a manner that is below acceptable standards or harmful.

 

Can first aiders be held liable?

If you have suffered preventable harm because you were administered first aid that you think was negligent call our advisors who will assess your case for free. 

 

Not case law example but it would appear that there is potential for a negligence claim.

And this is probably a good point to get across in this topic. Leave first aid to trained professional if at all possible. If they need your help they will ask for it.

 

To give an example, an old bloke, not unlike myself, falls over and stops breathing. You arrive on the scene and decide to administer chest compressions after doing the ABC's. Now some of the older gentlemen on here will jump in with 15 and 2, some of the slightly younger peeps will go for straight compressions and the new kids on the block will be doing 30 and 2 as per the current guidelines. It turns out that it was in vain and the old fella never recovers. sad times all round.

 

Now, the old fella was a top bloke but his family turn out to be arseholes. All 3 options above showed a willingness to preserve life but only 1 was concurrent with the latest guidelines so anyone doing either of the first 2 could be liable to a negligence claim. probably most of you reading this will be thinking, "I'd do it anyway" which is the right answer but just remember the world is full of arseholes.

 

Also don't be handing out over the counter drugs to people as you have no idea of their medical history or what other medication they may have taken.

[Jacob Wright]

Some great replies here, and honestly I didn’t expect this much!

 

I guess the take away message is: carry the basics, but be trained in it. 
 

As I’m an Ambulance Tech I carry a trauma kit with dressing, CAT tourniquet, gloves and pulse ox on my vest, with a standard FAK on my belt. 
 

Would 100% advise people to get trained, I’ve been in too many situations at work and elsewhere where literally having the basics could have made so much more difference. 
 

Get training, be fit peeps.

[Dan Robinson]

It's been a while since I had official First Aid training - it might even be as long ago as being at university (24 years) when I was a counsellor - where we had to potentially deal with anything from pissheads falling over after the bars shut through to suicide attempts and campus muggins.

 

 

Thankfully it was always pissheads... Or Stoners knocking on the door looking for Rizzlas because they knew there was always two people  on duty. 😁

[Davet]

On 24/08/2023 at 13:22, Rogerborg said:

 

3. Cardiovascular, and specifically a myocardial infarction. The one thing I always carry for that, everywhere, is aspirin, and I'd advocate it for everyone. eBay "keyring pill holder" or similar, buy a bunch, pop a couple of aspirin in them and pass them out to friends and family, please.

I’d caution against giving drugs, over-the-counter or otherwise, to somebody unless you’re trained and licensed to do so or it’s the casualty’s own supply and you’re assisting them to take it, eg. GTN, insulin, etc.

 

If you do, have you diagnosed the issue correctly and are you giving the appropriate drug/dose or are you about to make things worse, without knowing the patient’s medical history?  And you are effectively then prescribing the drug.

 

Personally, I carry an IFAK with CAT, Celox, Russell or Fox chest seal, Israeli bandage, NPA. In the car, more of that, plus various size OPAs and I-gels, BVM, gauze bandages various sizes, pulse ox, ATMIST cards plus chinagraph pencil and an AED. I’m trained, licensed and regulated to carry and use it.The only stuff I don’t have, that I do at work, is Penthrox and O2.

 

To paraphrase the Flannel Daddy “get some training”.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Davet

[Tiercel]

I pop a bog standard hikers first aid kit pouch from generic outdoors store of your choice in a pouch because its small and Im unlikely to need anything more than a few plasters and maybe a bandage. Anything needing more kit than that can wait til the marshals bring a proper first aid kid. 

 

I keep a more advanced kit in my car (or if its an all day game or huge game site pop it in a backpack) which contains a few trauma dressings, tourniquet and IV kit with a bottle of IV paracetamol. I am a registered paramedic so know what I'm doing with them  as generally sites tend to be miles away from anywhere, so its going to be a long wait for an ambulance if someone stacks it down a hill and snaps their leg or something, so I can at least get some pain relief into them whilst waiting, plus then IV access already established for the ambo crew to give anything else.

 

However I would probably only be comfortable doing that to my mates who know I actually am trained and know what Im doing, and not just some random Ricky Rescue wannabe trying to stick needles in people.

 

I generally try not to get involved in medical issues on a game day as I feel its not my place to, unless I can see its a particularly bad one or someone is doing something completely wrong (like the site "first aider" who was trying to put a stick in someones mouth to "stop them swallowing their tongue" having a seizure). 

[Duff Beer]

1 hour ago, Tiercel said:

I generally try not to get involved in medical issues on a game day as I feel its not my place to, unless I can see its a particularly bad one or someone is doing something completely wrong (like the site "first aider" who was trying to put a stick in someones mouth to "stop them swallowing their tongue" having a seizure). 

I’m very fortunate in that the team at my local are either Blue Light or trained by them.  This is also a part of why I’m comfortable carrying an IFAK on site; if I’m not in a position to use it on me I’m confident that they are and would do so sensibly should the need arise.

 

Having seen them spring into action when the need arose (nothing serious, I think someone did a leg or an ankle) they were next to the player with the quad and a trailer within two minutes, with no panic and professionalism.
 

One thing that I do carry on my IFAK which I missed out from my earlier list was a Green Chemlight.  At the Black Site it’s very dark, so green is used exclusively by marshals to identify themselves and/or casualties (Green is safe).  Whilst it’s forbidden to use green illumination if you’re not a marshal, should the worst happen it’ll make finding the casualty easier (and also stop them getting drilled in the dark) until help arrives.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Duff Beer

[SheriffHD]

Something worth for any first aid kit - aspirin. If you suspect someone might be having heart attack/chest pain popping an aspirin will buy some time.

 

My first aid kit has;

BP cuff, stethoscope, pulse oximeter, burn gel, ice pack, saline, gauze, bandage, tourniquet, gloves, notepad pen, trauma scissors and regular scissors and a two finger mobile EKG.

 

And an assortment of paracetamol, ibroprofin, aspirin, glucose tabs, plasters.

 

And it all fits in a nice little viper pouch that unfolds which is pretty nifty.

[Cannonfodder]

8 hours ago, SheriffHD said:

Something worth for any first aid kit - aspirin. If you suspect someone might be having heart attack/chest pain popping an aspirin will buy some time.

 

See the quote below

12 hours ago, Davet said:

I’d caution against giving drugs, over-the-counter or otherwise, to somebody unless you’re trained and licensed to do so or it’s the casualty’s own supply and you’re assisting them to take it, eg. GTN, insulin, etc.

 

If you do, have you diagnosed the issue correctly and are you giving the appropriate drug/dose or are you about to make things worse, without knowing the patient’s medical history?  And you are effectively then prescribing the drug.

 

[mightyjebus]

9 hours ago, SheriffHD said:

Something worth for any first aid kit - aspirin. If you suspect someone might be having heart attack/chest pain popping an aspirin will buy some time.

 

 

No it probably won't help. It would need to travel to the stomach and then take time to break down in same doses as it enters the bloodstream. Chewing an asprin is much better as you break it down quicker and likely to have more effect on the condition.

[Rogerborg]

On 25/08/2023 at 15:09, mightyjebus said:

Also don't be handing out over the counter drugs to people as you have no idea of their medical history or what other medication they may have taken.

 

Mmm, the only thing I carry and would hand over is aspirin, and only for the symptoms of acute MI.  From recent experience, if you call 111 and report a sudden spike in blood pressure, let alone chest or left arm pain and shortness of breath, they'll tell you chew 300mg while the ambulance is on the way.

 

Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

 

 

On 25/08/2023 at 15:09, mightyjebus said:

15 and 2, some of the slightly younger peeps will go for straight compressions and the new kids on the block will be doing 30 and 2 as per the current guidelines. 

 

The current guidelines from St John's Ambulance are straight compressions.

 

Also, the current guidelines from St John's Ambulance are 30 compressions, 2 breaths.

 

🤷‍♂️

[SSPKali]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Mmm, the only thing I carry and would hand over is aspirin, and only for the symptoms of acute MI.  From recent experience, if you call 111 and report a sudden spike in blood pressure, let alone chest or left arm pain and shortness of breath, they'll tell you chew 300mg while the ambulance is on the way.

 

Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

 

 

 

The current guidelines from St John's Ambulance are straight compressions.

 

Also, the current guidelines from St John's Ambulance are 30 compressions, 2 breaths.

 

🤷‍♂️

While FREC guidelines are just compressions, but a BVM or O2 (15L/m) are helpful 🤙🏻

While the BeeGees “Stayin’ alive” is the right rhythm so is Queen’s “Another one bites the dust” - just sing it in your head 😂

[Cannonfodder]

7 hours ago, SSPKali said:

While the BeeGees “Stayin’ alive” is the right rhythm so is Queen’s “Another one bites the dust” - just sing it in your head 😂

From what I was told anything with 100 - 120 bpm is good, here's a few other suggestions 

 

[Emergencychimps]

Thought this was of some relevance. 

 

https://www.bhf.org.uk/how-you-can-help/how-to-save-a-life/how-to-do-cpr/learn-cpr-in-15-minutes

 

Online CPR training for something we are most likely to experience. 

[hunter511]

One thing I would have found really helpful last time I had to do anything first aid adjacent (dog walker witha really messed up ankle in a quite difficult to reach area) space blankets...... wrong weather + shock and someones potentially gonna be in a very bad place much quicker than you might think. I mean clearly not as quick as if they're squirting but.......

[SheriffHD]

11 hours ago, SSPKali said:

While FREC guidelines are just compressions, but a BVM or O2 (15L/m) are helpful 🤙🏻

While the BeeGees “Stayin’ alive” is the right rhythm so is Queen’s “Another one bites the dust” - just sing it in your head 😂

The training I was given stated that there's enough oxygen in the blood to not need to give rescue breaths during CPR and that you're better continuing with compressions.

As for the song......baby shark do do do 

[Tiercel]

Nobody does mouth to mouth because its disgusting  That's the main reason they've tried encouraging laypeople to go compression only, its better than nothing and you have better luck convincing them to do it. 

 

Usually youll have a lovely pool of saliva and other assorted fluids at the back of the mouth to deal with, which leak everywhere, and probably a load of vomit too, and some blood if youre doing those compressions hard enough. No way Im putting my mouth anywhere near that, even with one of those little plastic sheet mouth shield things. I would maybe, MAYBE consider it if it were one of my nearest and dearest, but on a stranger? Absolutely no chance.

 

As for the aspirin debate, ideally you want dispersable that'll dissolve on you tongue and absorbed directly via buccal/sub lingual route. Unless theyre deathly allergic to it, the benefit greatly outweighs any risk. None of this nonsense about prescribing or not knowing their history or anything like that. Just ask them  "Got chest pain and you look like a grey, pale, sweaty mess, feel like shit? Fancy an aspirin just in case, not allergic are you?" and if theyre not in a position to answer you, dont go sticking things in their mouth. Same as the fling you met at the pub  

[gavinkempsell]

7 hours ago, SheriffHD said:

As for the song......baby shark do do do

No good, I tried this & got a slap after the first 15 compressions.

[Tommikka]

Here’s a drift, which I’ll deliberately make to target those of you who are professionals in this area —— because you might have the ability to redirect out of date elements, and could help with training materials …….

(Of course he’s also taking donations to build the main kits)

 

A fellow by the name of witzy has been doing a number of things to support Ukraine, and is currently putting together IFAK kits for combatants etc

 

He is both a paintballer and airsofter, as player and organiser

If you do Facebook the following videos should come up, if anyone is able to help with expired surpluses he can me messaged directly on his profile 

 

https://www.facebook.com/stephen.witts.5

 

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02a3r4waeUthKGP8s9QnbeK43XEEqHDECNJT2gDnamejLjns95DMUQxeUBtN78ZNX8l&id=1169423901

 

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0zEekY57jEGhFaa5a83FG6q7nNzbFCNqTY17qjaHASoVX57gsFyKHtGVKCLbShS1hl&id=1169423901

 

 

Even if not, his run through of the contents give some of the uses of the elements of a ‘more serious’ first aid kit

For our kinds of use leave out what you don’t know what to do with and add the ‘lesser’ basics of plasters, liquid plasters, tape,  creams, pills appropriate to you such as allergy, aches & pains etc

Hopefully as a player we just need something to stop a scratch, graze, cut, pyro burn from ending the day, and be able to ease something worse until others turn up

[Gryph]

I'm a response bobby, so I carry a first aid pouch in my rucksack when I'm out and about, and have a repro BFG micro trauma kit on my belt. I've also got a little boo boo pouch that lives in my trouser pocket and definitely sees more use than the FAK. Boo boo kit has varying types of drugs (all legal, I swear), plasters and some 3M tape. 
I think that everyone should carry a small kit for whingeries - you never know when you need a plaster and you look like a bit of a dick if everyone has bandages and CATs, but no one has a plaster.

 

As for the CPR debate, current training in my force is 30 compressions and 2 breaths, but we carry the full face seals so I don't have to smooch the casualty. With that being said, our first aid training upsets people because there's some techiniques we're taught that people don't like (i.e. removing crash helmets)

Edited August 29, 2023 by Gryph

[SheriffHD]

31 minutes ago, Gryph said:

I'm a response bobby, so I carry a first aid pouch in my rucksack when I'm out and about, and have a repro BFG micro trauma kit on my belt. I've also got a little boo boo pouch that lives in my trouser pocket and definitely sees more use than the FAK. Boo boo kit has varying types of drugs (all legal, I swear), plasters and some 3M tape. 
I think that everyone should carry a small kit for whingeries - you never know when you need a plaster and you look like a bit of a dick if everyone has bandages and CATs, but no one has a plaster.

 

As for the CPR debate, current training in my force is 30 compressions and 2 breaths, but we carry the full face seals so I don't have to smooch the casualty. With that being said, our first aid training upsets people because there's some techiniques we're taught that people don't like (i.e. removing crash helmets)

Oddly enough - our resus team state not to bother with the breaths being that there's enough residual o2 in the blood stream to sustain and ultimately keeping blood flow is the main priority, but then again our training is based on the fact we have a crash bag with air delivery options available and we have to wear ffp3 masks which prevents us being able to mouth to mouth anyway.

[pedro]

a single ffd which i hope i never have to use in game and basic pain meds like ibuprofen and co-codamol also antihistamine, loperomide, 

 

i also carry sachets of electrolyte replacement like dioralyte or the supermarket equivalent, this gets used A LOT

 

clean water for wound cleaning or if safe to do so eye wash, also for drinking with or without the electrolyte 

 

i dont carry plasters any longer cos really, they just wernt getting used and anything that you might use a small plaster on can usually just be ignored ime

 

as others have said, training is the key here, have some and know your limits.

 

never been a medical professional but had a few in the family and close mates etc and they would remind me of an unfortunate saying in hospital emergency departments

 

"first aiders kill people"

 

so whenever i have been required to offer aid to someone i always kept that in mind