Provenance in pictures ?

[Tackle]

Hi all, regarding members putting a piece of paper showing their username & the current date within the pictures in their sales threads, I mistakenly thought this was already a rule, but rereading through the forum I note this is currently only a recommendation. 

Any way this could be made a permanent requirement please, I just feel that with the ever growing membership, many of whom only come here to take advantage of the high member count & just utilise the classifieds, it's only a matter of time before we get another run of scammers trying their luck. 

I also feel this should be applied to the appraisals section, as some threads there seem to be worded in such a way as to generate sales interest, with members often replying saying things like "first dibs please", again without the op displaying proof the items are in their possession.

Its a small point but fairly crucial in ensuring provenance of items shown in pictures. 

[mp5a4]

I remember it used to be a few years back, before the new classifieds launched. It is nice to have as you always hear the horror stories, and many out there still are happy to pay friends and family...

[Cannonfodder]

9 hours ago, Tackle said:

it's only a matter of time before we get another run of scammers trying their luck

I think it's started. There's a guns wanted ad which has been replied to with the piece of paper with the name of the guy selling on it but the text doesn't follow the creases on the paper

[Krisz]

On Prefired it's mandatory to display date and name next to your gun.

 

Personally I don't think it's gonna be safer to buy guns from invidiuals just because of it.

 

If you don't know the guy or can't see the gun in person sacrifice that extra 10 pounds for goods and services instead of F&F.

 

Personally I wouldn't fuck anyone over money but I always offer F&F in private as a gesture of good will when I sell a gun. I would rather leave that extra money in the other person's pocket than expecting him to pay extra to paypal. They make more than enough money. But ultimately my buyer's decision after all for me it doesn't matter.

 

When someone insist only on F&F/bank transfer it's a big red flag for me though.

 

 

Edited March 8 by Krisz

[Tackle]

1 hour ago, Krisz said:

On Prefired it's mandatory to display date and name next to your gun.

 

Personally I don't think it's gonna be safer to buy guns from invidiuals just because of it.

 

If you don't know the guy or can't see the gun in person sacrifice that extra 10 pounds for goods and services instead of F&F.

 

Personally I wouldn't fuck anyone over money but I always offer F&F in private as a gesture of good will when I sell a gun. When someone insist only on F&F/bank transfer it's a big red flag for me though.

 

 

I didnt mention F&F etc, as far as I'm concerned that's not & should NEVER be up for discussion, but agree mention of it is a super massive red flag. 

A good mantra to live by, & it's something someone said on here waaay back, 

"If someone mentions F&F, only send what you can afford to lose" 

Wise words indeed 🤔

[proffrink]

I don't see why not. If @Jedi_Master is ok with it then I'll edit the rules.

[ak2m4]

I thought the title read "Provence In Pictures"  and I'd mistaking clicked on the wife's holidaying in France forum 🙂 

[Krisz]

2 hours ago, Tackle said:

I didnt mention F&F etc, as far as I'm concerned that's not & should NEVER be up for discussion, but agree mention of it is a super massive red flag. 

A good mantra to live by, & it's something someone said on here waaay back, 

"If someone mentions F&F, only send what you can afford to lose" 

Wise words indeed 🤔

 

That's absolutely depend on that particular situation.

 

I bought an HolyWarrior S1 from a forum member a week ago and because he has good reputation here I did F&F not even thinking about it twice. But in general I wouldn't pay for guns on prefired, airsofthub, usedairsoft etc.

 

Edited March 8 by Krisz

[RostokMcSpoons]

2 minutes ago, Krisz said:

 

That's absolutely depend on that particular situation. I bought an HolyWarrior S1 from a forum member a week ago and because he has good reputation I did F&F not even thinking about it twice.

 

Agreed, but on the flip-side no seller should get in a huff about a buyer not wanting to do F&F even if (objectively / for the sake of the argument) he/she does have a good rep.

The 'only what you can afford to lose' is a good thing to go by.   It varies greatly for different people of course,  and I once read a psychology article that says when you're scammed the financial hit feels three times worse than if you'd just dropped the money down a hole.   I can believe that.

[Tommikka]

PayPal provides an almost escrow service acting as the middleman between two parties.

 

Friends & family is purely for transferring an amount of money and receives no other PayPal services 

 

Standard payments with fees (deducted from the amount the recipient receives) have a level of dispute protection 

 

It’s as simple as that - you have no right to a comeback on a F&F payment 

 

‘Send me £1 F&F’ should be translated into ‘send me an amount of money that puts £1 into my account’

If they won’t let you pay £1.34 to enable them to receive £1 after fees then that should tell you there’s a problem

 

Even better if the seller takes into account fees and postage before creating a listing with the price 

 

 

[Tackle]

I've done the same, member with the absolute highest rep, plus the value has to be miniscule, literally no more than a fiver-ish. 

End of the day, friends & family is intended to be that, someone paying a friend or family money owed, either repaying for something or loaning some money, even if I'd asked my sister to buy & mail me the latest Chiefs shirt (she's in KC/MO), I'd do it as goods & services, otherwise I lose out if it disappears. 

Which is why it makes absolutely no sense to entrust your money with a total stranger in the hope he will send you something, via any number of flawed delivery options, just to save what could be a couple of quid. 🤔

25 minutes ago, Krisz said:

 

That's absolutely depend on that particular situation. I bought an HolyWarrior S1 from a forum member a week ago and because he has good reputation I did F&F.

 

How much, & had it got lost what would your response be .? 

[Krisz]

21 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

Agreed, but on the flip-side no seller should get in a huff about a buyer not wanting to do F&F even if (objectively / for the sake of the argument) he/she does have a good rep.

The 'only what you can afford to lose' is a good thing to go by.   It varies greatly for different people of course,  and I once read a psychology article that says when you're scammed the financial hit feels three times worse than if you'd just dropped the money down a hole.   I can believe that.

 

 

Yes ofc. The buyer has the money it's his decision after all. 

 

I never bought a used gun from here but sold many on these earlier mentioned websites. It's different when you're the seller. Well, I know my integrity is more important than money. Sadly some people try to take advantage of other people instead of going to work...

 

Edited March 8 by Krisz

[Cannonfodder]

To me I'll only do f&f if I know the person well, other than that it's g&s every time. If the seller doesn't like it then I'm more than happy to walk away, but I'm a cynical old git who doesn't trust people I don't know

[alxndrhll]

As someone that used the classifieds a lot I wouldn't personally think it's necessary to be mandatory at all, as mentioned throughout the thread it's commonly known that the safest way to protect yourself is how you pay. Ranging from bank transfer/PayPal F&F through to PayPal G&S and/or collecting the item(s) in person at an agreed location.

 

It's seemingly hard enough for folks to follow the rules currently in place, let alone adding more... and then the burden of having to moderate that. I've gone through the classified rules below and highlighted in red the ones which are already not followed on a fairly regular basis. No shade at the mod team at all, I'm aware it's a lot of traffic to try and stay on top of... it's purely to illustrate a point.

 

Forum Specific Rules (action will be taken against your account for disregarding these)

1. Failure to comply with the rules will result in you receiving a ‘Forum Warning’. Warnings start with the verbal kind and steadily increase in respect of seriousness/repeat offences right through to a ban and deletion of all posts and topics along with your user account. Find out more about ‘Forum Warnings’.
2. All sales / trades must take place between two adults (i.e. over 18 years of age).
3. All sales and swaps must use the sales template. Add additional information to let buyers know your trade preferences or location for collection. This will help sell your gun or gear as listing without pictures rarely sell.
4. All sales must have an asking price. The price must be in UK Sterling £.
5. All sales and swaps topics must have a picture, all pictures must be taken by the seller (adding a piece of paper with your forum name and date helps, but is not a rule). Do not use a retailers pictures - take your own.
6. You must have access to the item that you're selling. You cannot be selling items that you do not own, are not able to post immediately or being sold on the behalf of someone else.
7. You must include a picture of every item that you are selling. It is not acceptable to just show a box or use a stock images. Pictures must be visible in the listing (whilst we do allow links to other forums, simply placing a link instead of a picture is not permitted).
8. Do not list the same item twice simultaneously. I.e. don't 'double list' an item.  You cannot have an advert in both Sales and Swaps section for the same item, just select "For sale or swap" for advert type.
9. Once your item(s) is/are definitely sold/you've found the item you're looking for (even if the sale happened elsewhere), please mark the advertisement as 'complete' by visiting the listing and clicking 'Set as Complete'.
10. Second hand airsoft-relevant items only. No selling/swapping of any other items, this includes offering items such as consoles for trade. There are no exceptions to this rule.
11. No sales of knives, real guns, airguns, or any item of any description that readily fires metal munitions, metal munitions themselves, or any other weapon of any type, aside from IFs and RIFs within the legal limits. The following limits are on all sales with no exceptions:
    • <370ft/s for full auto systems with a .20g BB (1.3J is the legal maximum)
    • <520ft/s for semi auto systems .20g BB (2.5J is the legal maximum)
    • <520ft/s for single fire systems .20g BB (2.5J is the legal maximum)
12. You must communicate with your buyer/seller once a transaction is initiated (i.e. ignoring their PMs or topics asking what's going on with a sale/purchase).
13. If you complete a trade/sale of any kind via the forums, please leave feedback for the seller/buyer, this allows us to see who we can trust or who we need to keep an eye on. You may leave feedback by going here.
14. Any suspicions about the item(s) or seller should be sent via PM to a Moderator. Use the "Report this advert" link at the bottom of the listing and include a message (this will flag an issue for Moderators to look at).

Just seems like an unecessary addition which won't stand to curb much of the 'dodgey' activity, the bulk of which in my experience happens in PMs in response to wanted ads rather than classified listings themselves.

 

19 hours ago, Tackle said:

How much, & had it got lost what would your response be .? 

 

I was the seller of the item, all prices I provide in listings are inclusive of postage and G&S fees. When a buyer chooses to pay via F&F due to my feedback reputation it's appreciated but by no means pushed, or even mentioned on my part for that matter. Every item I send* is sent with tracking and the appropriate amount of compensation on it to ensure coverage should it go missing. With full transparency being that the buyer couldn't have possibly known that at the time of sending funds. Apologies to @Kriszif they feel I've overshared here.

 

*Where possible, PF48 with £150 compensation is as good as you can get on RIFs if you're abiding the 'prohibited items' rules laid out by the various couriers... assuming my information is still up to date here, which I believe it to be. For the most part I tend to arrange delivery/collection in person for RIFs in lieu of being able to provide adequate compensation coverage.

 

Aaaaanyway, this isn't about me as a seller, just highlighting that not having G&S doesn't necessarily mean the buyer, seller or both are entirely up shit creek is something goes awry courtesy of outrwonderful postal service... depending on how the seller sends it.

 

TLDR - I don't think it's a necessary change, but I'll follow it should the rules be updated... as I do with all the existing rules.

Edited March 9 by alxndrhll

[Krisz]

23 minutes ago, alxndrhll said:

As someone that used the classifieds a lot I wouldn't personally think it's necessary to be mandatory at all, as mentioned throughout the thread it's commonly known that the safest way to protect yourself is how you pay. Ranging from bank transfer/PayPal F&F through to PayPal G&S and/or collecting the item(s) in person at an agreed location.

 

It's seemingly hard enough for folks to follow the rules currently in place, let alone adding more... and then the burden of having to moderate that. I've gone through the classified rules below and highlighted in red the ones which are already not followed on a fairly regular basis. No shade at the mod team at all, I'm aware it's a lot of traffic to try and stay on top of... it's purely to illustrate a point.

 

Forum Specific Rules (action will be taken against your account for disregarding these)

1. Failure to comply with the rules will result in you receiving a ‘Forum Warning’. Warnings start with the verbal kind and steadily increase in respect of seriousness/repeat offences right through to a ban and deletion of all posts and topics along with your user account. Find out more about ‘Forum Warnings’.
2. All sales / trades must take place between two adults (i.e. over 18 years of age).
3. All sales and swaps must use the sales template. Add additional information to let buyers know your trade preferences or location for collection. This will help sell your gun or gear as listing without pictures rarely sell.
4. All sales must have an asking price. The price must be in UK Sterling £.
5. All sales and swaps topics must have a picture, all pictures must be taken by the seller (adding a piece of paper with your forum name and date helps, but is not a rule). Do not use a retailers pictures - take your own.
6. You must have access to the item that you're selling. You cannot be selling items that you do not own, are not able to post immediately or being sold on the behalf of someone else.
7. You must include a picture of every item that you are selling. It is not acceptable to just show a box or use a stock images. Pictures must be visible in the listing (whilst we do allow links to other forums, simply placing a link instead of a picture is not permitted).
8. Do not list the same item twice simultaneously. I.e. don't 'double list' an item.  You cannot have an advert in both Sales and Swaps section for the same item, just select "For sale or swap" for advert type.
9. Once your item(s) is/are definitely sold/you've found the item you're looking for (even if the sale happened elsewhere), please mark the advertisement as 'complete' by visiting the listing and clicking 'Set as Complete'.
10. Second hand airsoft-relevant items only. No selling/swapping of any other items, this includes offering items such as consoles for trade. There are no exceptions to this rule.
11. No sales of knives, real guns, airguns, or any item of any description that readily fires metal munitions, metal munitions themselves, or any other weapon of any type, aside from IFs and RIFs within the legal limits. The following limits are on all sales with no exceptions:
    • <370ft/s for full auto systems with a .20g BB (1.3J is the legal maximum)
    • <520ft/s for semi auto systems .20g BB (2.5J is the legal maximum)
    • <520ft/s for single fire systems .20g BB (2.5J is the legal maximum)
12. You must communicate with your buyer/seller once a transaction is initiated (i.e. ignoring their PMs or topics asking what's going on with a sale/purchase).
13. If you complete a trade/sale of any kind via the forums, please leave feedback for the seller/buyer, this allows us to see who we can trust or who we need to keep an eye on. You may leave feedback by going here.
14. Any suspicions about the item(s) or seller should be sent via PM to a Moderator. Use the "Report this advert" link at the bottom of the listing and include a message (this will flag an issue for Moderators to look at).

Just seems like an unecessary addition which won't stand to curb much of the 'dodgey' activity, the bulk of which in my experience happens in PMs in response to wanted ads rather than classified listings themselves.

 

 

I was the seller of the item, all prices I provide in listings are inclusive of postage and G&S fees. When a buyer chooses to pay via F&F due to my feedback reputation it's appreciated but by no means pushed, or even mentioned on my part for that matter. Every item I send* is sent with tracking and the appropriate amount of compensation on it to ensure coverage should it go missing. With full transparency being that the buyer couldn't have possibly known that at the time of sending funds. Apologies to @Kriszif they feel I've overshared here.

 

*Where possible, PF48 with £150 compensation is as good as you can get on RIFs if you're abiding the 'prohibited items' rules laid out by the various couriers... assuming my information is still up to date here, which I believe it to be. For the most part I tend to arrange delivery/collection in person for RIFs in lieu of being able to provide adequate compensation coverage.

 

Aaaaanyway, this isn't about me as a seller, just highlighting that not having G&S doesn't necessarily mean the buyer, seller or both are entirely up shit creek is something goes awry courtesy of outrwonderful postal service... depending on how the seller sends it.

 

TLDR - I don't think it's a necessary change, but I'll follow it should the rules be updated... as I do with all the existing rules.

It's okay. I don't trust people in general but our world isn't black and white either. Other people vouched for you on this forum in the past so I was like why this guy should pay money to paypal. Again, this is just a gesture of good will.

[proffrink]

1 hour ago, alxndrhll said:

As someone that used the classifieds a lot I wouldn't personally think it's necessary to be mandatory at all, as mentioned throughout the thread it's commonly known that the safest way to protect yourself is how you pay. Ranging from bank transfer/PayPal F&F through to PayPal G&S and/or collecting the item(s) in person at an agreed location.

 

It's seemingly hard enough for folks to follow the rules currently in place, let alone adding more... and then the burden of having to moderate that. I've gone through the classified rules below and highlighted in red the ones which are already not followed on a fairly regular basis. No shade at the mod team at all, I'm aware it's a lot of traffic to try and stay on top of... it's purely to illustrate a point.

 

Forum Specific Rules (action will be taken against your account for disregarding these)

1. Failure to comply with the rules will result in you receiving a ‘Forum Warning’. Warnings start with the verbal kind and steadily increase in respect of seriousness/repeat offences right through to a ban and deletion of all posts and topics along with your user account. Find out more about ‘Forum Warnings’.
2. All sales / trades must take place between two adults (i.e. over 18 years of age).
3. All sales and swaps must use the sales template. Add additional information to let buyers know your trade preferences or location for collection. This will help sell your gun or gear as listing without pictures rarely sell.
4. All sales must have an asking price. The price must be in UK Sterling £.
5. All sales and swaps topics must have a picture, all pictures must be taken by the seller (adding a piece of paper with your forum name and date helps, but is not a rule). Do not use a retailers pictures - take your own.
6. You must have access to the item that you're selling. You cannot be selling items that you do not own, are not able to post immediately or being sold on the behalf of someone else.
7. You must include a picture of every item that you are selling. It is not acceptable to just show a box or use a stock images. Pictures must be visible in the listing (whilst we do allow links to other forums, simply placing a link instead of a picture is not permitted).
8. Do not list the same item twice simultaneously. I.e. don't 'double list' an item.  You cannot have an advert in both Sales and Swaps section for the same item, just select "For sale or swap" for advert type.
9. Once your item(s) is/are definitely sold/you've found the item you're looking for (even if the sale happened elsewhere), please mark the advertisement as 'complete' by visiting the listing and clicking 'Set as Complete'.
10. Second hand airsoft-relevant items only. No selling/swapping of any other items, this includes offering items such as consoles for trade. There are no exceptions to this rule.
11. No sales of knives, real guns, airguns, or any item of any description that readily fires metal munitions, metal munitions themselves, or any other weapon of any type, aside from IFs and RIFs within the legal limits. The following limits are on all sales with no exceptions:
    • <370ft/【𝟭𝟭𝟯 𝗺】s for full auto systems with a .20g BB (1.3J is the legal maximum)
    • <520ft/【𝟭𝟱𝟴 𝗺】s for semi auto systems .20g BB (2.5J is the legal maximum)
    • <520ft/【𝟭𝟱𝟴 𝗺】s for single fire systems .20g BB (2.5J is the legal maximum)
12. You must communicate with your buyer/seller once a transaction is initiated (i.e. ignoring their PMs or topics asking what's going on with a sale/purchase).
13. If you complete a trade/sale of any kind via the forums, please leave feedback for the seller/buyer, this allows us to see who we can trust or who we need to keep an eye on. You may leave feedback by going here.
14. Any suspicions about the item(s) or seller should be sent via PM to a Moderator. Use the "Report this advert" link at the bottom of the listing and include a message (this will flag an issue for Moderators to look at).

Just seems like an unecessary addition which won't stand to curb much of the 'dodgey' activity, the bulk of which in my experience happens in PMs in response to wanted ads rather than classified listings themselves.

 

 

I was the seller of the item, all prices I provide in listings are inclusive of postage and G&S fees. When a buyer chooses to pay via F&F due to my feedback reputation it's appreciated but by no means pushed, or even mentioned on my part for that matter. Every item I send* is sent with tracking and the appropriate amount of compensation on it to ensure coverage should it go missing. With full transparency being that the buyer couldn't have possibly known that at the time of sending funds. Apologies to @Kriszif they feel I've overshared here.

 

*Where possible, PF48 with £150 compensation is as good as you can get on RIFs if you're abiding the 'prohibited items' rules laid out by the various couriers... assuming my information is still up to date here, which I believe it to be. For the most part I tend to arrange delivery/collection in person for RIFs in lieu of being able to provide adequate compensation coverage.

 

Aaaaanyway, this isn't about me as a seller, just highlighting that not having G&S doesn't necessarily mean the buyer, seller or both are entirely up shit creek is something goes awry courtesy of outrwonderful postal service... depending on how the seller sends it.

 

TLDR - I don't think it's a necessary change, but I'll follow it should the rules be updated... as I do with all the existing rules.

They certainly need rewriting to be more simple. The bits about UK law don't need to be in the same section as the headline rules.

[Tackle]

51 minutes ago, alxndrhll said:

As someone that used the classifieds a lot I wouldn't personally think it's necessary to be mandatory at all, as mentioned throughout the thread it's commonly known that the safest way to protect yourself is how you pay. Ranging from bank transfer/PayPal F&F through to PayPal G&S and/or collecting the item(s) in person at an agreed location.

 

It's seemingly hard enough for folks to follow the rules currently in place, let alone adding more... and then the burden of having to moderate that. I've gone through the classified rules below and highlighted in red the ones which are already not followed on a fairly regular basis. No shade at the mod team at all, I'm aware it's a lot of traffic to try and stay on top of... it's purely to illustrate a point.

 

Forum Specific Rules (action will be taken against your account for disregarding these)

1. Failure to comply with the rules will result in you receiving a ‘Forum Warning’. Warnings start with the verbal kind and steadily increase in respect of seriousness/repeat offences right through to a ban and deletion of all posts and topics along with your user account. Find out more about ‘Forum Warnings’.
2. All sales / trades must take place between two adults (i.e. over 18 years of age).
3. All sales and swaps must use the sales template. Add additional information to let buyers know your trade preferences or location for collection. This will help sell your gun or gear as listing without pictures rarely sell.
4. All sales must have an asking price. The price must be in UK Sterling £.
5. All sales and swaps topics must have a picture, all pictures must be taken by the seller (adding a piece of paper with your forum name and date helps, but is not a rule). Do not use a retailers pictures - take your own.
6. You must have access to the item that you're selling. You cannot be selling items that you do not own, are not able to post immediately or being sold on the behalf of someone else.
7. You must include a picture of every item that you are selling. It is not acceptable to just show a box or use a stock images. Pictures must be visible in the listing (whilst we do allow links to other forums, simply placing a link instead of a picture is not permitted).
8. Do not list the same item twice simultaneously. I.e. don't 'double list' an item.  You cannot have an advert in both Sales and Swaps section for the same item, just select "For sale or swap" for advert type.
9. Once your item(s) is/are definitely sold/you've found the item you're looking for (even if the sale happened elsewhere), please mark the advertisement as 'complete' by visiting the listing and clicking 'Set as Complete'.
10. Second hand airsoft-relevant items only. No selling/swapping of any other items, this includes offering items such as consoles for trade. There are no exceptions to this rule.
11. No sales of knives, real guns, airguns, or any item of any description that readily fires metal munitions, metal munitions themselves, or any other weapon of any type, aside from IFs and RIFs within the legal limits. The following limits are on all sales with no exceptions:
    • <370ft/s for full auto systems with a .20g BB (1.3J is the legal maximum)
    • <520ft/s for semi auto systems .20g BB (2.5J is the legal maximum)
    • <520ft/s for single fire systems .20g BB (2.5J is the legal maximum)
12. You must communicate with your buyer/seller once a transaction is initiated (i.e. ignoring their PMs or topics asking what's going on with a sale/purchase).
13. If you complete a trade/sale of any kind via the forums, please leave feedback for the seller/buyer, this allows us to see who we can trust or who we need to keep an eye on. You may leave feedback by going here.
14. Any suspicions about the item(s) or seller should be sent via PM to a Moderator. Use the "Report this advert" link at the bottom of the listing and include a message (this will flag an issue for Moderators to look at).

Just seems like an unecessary addition which won't stand to curb much of the 'dodgey' activity, the bulk of which in my experience happens in PMs in response to wanted ads rather than classified listings themselves.

 

 

I was the seller of the item, all prices I provide in listings are inclusive of postage and G&S fees. When a buyer chooses to pay via F&F due to my feedback reputation it's appreciated but by no means pushed, or even mentioned on my part for that matter. Every item I send* is sent with tracking and the appropriate amount of compensation on it to ensure coverage should it go missing. With full transparency being that the buyer couldn't have possibly known that at the time of sending funds. Apologies to @Kriszif they feel I've overshared here.

 

*Where possible, PF48 with £150 compensation is as good as you can get on RIFs if you're abiding the 'prohibited items' rules laid out by the various couriers... assuming my information is still up to date here, which I believe it to be. For the most part I tend to arrange delivery/collection in person for RIFs in lieu of being able to provide adequate compensation coverage.

 

Aaaaanyway, this isn't about me as a seller, just highlighting that not having G&S doesn't necessarily mean the buyer, seller or both are entirely up shit creek is something goes awry courtesy of outrwonderful postal service... depending on how the seller sends it.

 

TLDR - I don't think it's a necessary change, but I'll follow it should the rules be updated... as I do with all the existing rules.

Thanks for your input, but your clearly not the problem, all you've really highlighted is your professional approach to trading on here. 

Yes a small mods team who do their best to police sales etc, but they're understandably reliant on the support of members being proactive themselves, of which there is a core of us that will raise concerns or nudge OP's if they've not followed rules or they've piqued or suspicions. 

It's all we can do, & if making small adjustments such as the picture "thing" helps everyone then great. 

The mention of F&F wasn't intended in this thread, God knows it's been done to death in other threads, & yet still people sometimes get suckered by less scrupulous "members", which is a shame the point still isn't getting through 😞