Am I Now An Airsoft W**ker?

[Fatboy40]

I've been trying to get my max 1.14J Double Eagle M904E to be the best it can be on 0.28g BBs, still have a snappy'ish trigger but try and surprise people with its range, and I was disappointed with the consistency / range from a ZCI plastic rotary hop unit so I've sold my soul to the devil...

 

 

... to try and get as consistent and light a hop as possible. The stock trigger spring snapped right at the end of my last game so I thought sod it, get a Maxx speed trigger and an M4A-PRO.

 

I've already got a few Maxx nozzles so used a 21.25 with it, and Maxx do warn that your FPS may be a little higher, and I gained a good 15 or so FPS from it (going from around 290 to 305) so will go from the current M110 spring to an M105 which should make the gearbox and motor happy.

 

So I'm happy, but know that probably 50% of other players think I'm now a twat 😆

[SBoardley]

Generally speaking, you’re only an airsoft wanker f you go binary or hpa a pistol with a drum mag adapter. So you are good mate; for now. 

[Tackle]

Don't encourage me 😜

[Badgerlicious]

What's an "A wanker"? 

 

Also a maxx hop doesn't make you a wanker, it makes you a rube. 

[Adolf Hamster]

Eh, in the platforms it fits the maxx isnt a bad unit, some regard it as overpriced which is a fair assessment, but not bad.

 

Certainly not wanker grade.

[Skara]

Best M4 hop unit, once you get past a few compatibility niggles.

 

Whoever says otherwise is just wrong.

[RostokMcSpoons]

10 hours ago, Tackle said:

 

Inability to spot the catastrophic use of "your" instead of "you're".  The joke sir, is you on YOU sir!   

I must admit I'm surprised @Fatboy40 you're having a problem with the DE.  I simply swapped out the stock rubber and nub for the usual 50 degree Macaron + Omega nub combo... I didn't see any obvious improvement in accuracy when I did my target testing at ~15M, but I was very happy with the distances I was getting out on the field. 
I've used both 0.28 and 0.30 BBs.

Good luck with the Maxx hop.  It wouldn't have been my choice given the usual noise around their "value proposition" but whatever works is good - let's hope it works for you!

Edited September 6, 2022 by RostokMcSpoons

[Lozart]

I have Maxx hops in my two main guns. They work well for me, I bought my first one when they were still red because they came with built in tracer function and it also happens to be a really good hop unit. The second one was among the original run of the gold coloured ones (more by luck than judgement) and it too works just fine.

 

Could I have achieved similar performance with a cheaper unit? Possibly. Would I have built in tracer function? No. Would I have a funky little clip thing that stops me dropping BBs all over the place when I change mags? No. Do I care that they're more expensive than a plastic ZCI rotary? Not really.

 

Much like all things airsoft, around 20% of what you hear is valid, the rest is noise and hearsay.

[RostokMcSpoons]

39 minutes ago, Lozart said:

Would I have a funky little clip thing that stops me dropping BBs all over the place when I change mags?

The typical "4 BB fall-out" pisses me off!  I do most of my test firing in the lounge out to the garden, and inevitably manage to drop a couple of BBs on to the hardwood floor, then spend time chasing them around under the furniture etc.

 

If Maxx hop units stop that, I'd be inclined to buy 'em - please tell me more!

 

 

Quote

Much like all things airsoft, around 20% of what you hear is valid, the rest is noise and hearsay.

To be fair, much (almost all?) of that noise that I've heard/seen is from Luke at Neg Airsoft loudly dissing them and bigging up the ZCI hops.  That usually carries some weight...?

Edited September 6, 2022 by RostokMcSpoons

[Rogerborg]

17 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

The typical "4 BB fall-out" pisses me off!

 

Being a cheap Scotchman (I know that's redundant) I tend to invert guns while mag-changing to save every precious little sphere.

[Badgerlicious]

1 hour ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

The typical "4 BB fall-out" pisses me off!  I do most of my test firing in the lounge out to the garden, and inevitably manage to drop a couple of BBs on to the hardwood floor, then spend time chasing them around under the furniture etc.

Mags with followers prevent this, and if I don't have that I have a bin or a box nearby to open my gun over. 

 

The internal tracer unit is nice, and the only reason to get one imo. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Badgerlicious

[BigBell1987]

1 hour ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

To be fair, much (almost all?) of that noise that I've heard/seen is from Luke at Neg Airsoft loudly dissing them and bigging up the ZCI hops.  That usually carries some weight...?

 

Enjoy his videos, curious what people's thoughts are on him and his knowledge, comes across as no bullshit, simple upgrades mostly stock just choose a good system in the first place which appeals to me being new to the game but that lack of experience also means one knows not who to trust. He openly admits that many people dispute him but that just makes me trust him more. I'll go start a thread on this save steering the topic away, thinking out loud right now, apologies.

[Adolf Hamster]

1 hour ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

To be fair, much (almost all?) of that noise that I've heard/seen is from Luke at Neg Airsoft loudly dissing them and bigging up the ZCI hops.  That usually carries some weight..

 

They can be finnicky in some recievers, and theyre a lot more expensive for not a lot more bb lobbing performance compared to the zci's

 

But if it sits nice in your gun, and you're the type to care about climbing that diminishing returns curve/the shiny extras, then they are good units.

[Skara]

He knows his stuff, but in some cases I think he goes over the top with ridiculous arguments (fitting a Maxx unit takes less time and brain cells than making a gearbox feed and seal on a warhead motor, that is undeniable, yet he is willing to go great lengths to fit a warhead but won't bother doing slight adjustments to fit a Maxx, for some obscure reason)

 

Back on topic:

 

Are you on a tight budget? ZCI

Do you care about squeezing every bit of performance out of your gun? Maxx

[Rogerborg]

14 hours ago, Fatboy40 said:

I was disappointed with the consistency / range from a ZCI plastic rotary hop unit

 

What I hope is that you'll do an honest appraisal of the MaXXX versus the ZCI, ideally a before-and-after bench test with the variables and human factors minimised.

 

So much of this hobby is about feeling good about what we fit rather than any objective benefit.

[Fatboy40]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

 

What I hope is that you'll do an honest appraisal of the MaXXX versus the ZCI, ideally a before-and-after bench test with the variables and human factors minimised.

 

So much of this hobby is about feeling good about what we fit rather than any objective benefit.

 

That's the plan. I'm playing this Sunday at the same site that I last played at, Ironsight, which I could walk around in my sleep.

 

There's a particular outdoors rat run that's around 50m in length with some fixed points of cover, and I use this to judge range and accuracy, and last time with 0.28g + ZCI hop unit + Maple Leaf AEG inner barrel + Maple Leaf MR 60 degree bucking + Omega nub I wasn't happy with the range I was getting.

 

I've gone from the stock hop unit to the ZCI, however for me I couldn't get a sweet spot, it was either too much or not enough hop, plus the Omega nub never sat perfectly (maybe something to do with the ZCI or its arm).

 

After talking to Maxx Model, telling them my setup, I'm using their solid metal concave nub which they recommended and which is one of the reasons I bought the M4A-PRO in the first place (a perfectly cantered nub that's also a little wider than the Omega). Also fine hop adjustment feels like it should be substantially better, turning the wheel with your thumb it feels somehow tight to move but at the same time buttery smooth.

[Adolf Hamster]

2 hours ago, Fatboy40 said:

I've gone from the stock hop unit to the ZCI, however for me I couldn't get a sweet spot, it was either too much or not enough hop, plus the Omega nub never sat perfectly (maybe something to do with the ZCI or its arm).

 

it wasn't one of those non-maple leaf omega nubs?

 

i've had a couple of those that weren't all that square.

 

2 hours ago, Fatboy40 said:

After talking to Maxx Model, telling them my setup, I'm using their solid metal concave nub which they recommended and which is one of the reasons I bought the M4A-PRO in the first place (a perfectly cantered nub that's also a little wider than the Omega). Also fine hop adjustment feels like it should be substantially better, turning the wheel with your thumb it feels somehow tight to move but at the same time buttery smooth.

 

aye the R-block works just fine with the ml buckings.

 

tbh the flat/rhop type hops do tend to be a lot more sensitive in terms of a sweet spot, just how they are, which is where the proliferation of rotary hops comes from.

[Skara]

31 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

tbh the flat/rhop type hops do tend to be a lot more sensitive in terms of a sweet spot, just how they are, which is where the proliferation of rotary hops comes from.

And because a rotary hop can't unwind itself with use like a traditional 3 gears hop does.

[Adolf Hamster]

20 minutes ago, Skara said:

And because a rotary hop can't unwind itself with use like a traditional 3 gears hop does.

 

tbf, i've had some loose rotaries that could unwind and i've had/bodged conventional units to not unwind.

[Fatboy40]

1 hour ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

it wasn't one of those non-maple leaf omega nubs?

 

 

Nope, 100% Maple Leaf.

[Skara]

55 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

tbf, i've had some loose rotaries that could unwind and i've had/bodged conventional units to not unwind.

If the unit is particularly bad, yes, but by the way forces are applied, it should be very, very hard for a rotary unit to unwind itself.

[Fatboy40]

On 06/09/2022 at 08:38, RostokMcSpoons said:

I must admit I'm surprised @Fatboy40 you're having a problem with the DE.  I simply swapped out the stock rubber and nub for the usual 50 degree Macaron + Omega nub combo... I didn't see any obvious improvement in accuracy when I did my target testing at ~15M, but I was very happy with the distances I was getting out on the field. 
I've used both 0.28 and 0.30 BBs.

 

 

@RostokMcSpoons I'm trying to get my DE M904E to be a bit of a rifle that does it all, in that it's quick enough to get a shot off for a surprise player hiding round a corner but can lob a 0.28 / 0.30 much further than you'd expect and catch people off guard.

 

I'm getting there with the Maple Leaf inner barrel and MR bucking, an out of the box r-hop, but the hop unit is letting me down.

On 06/09/2022 at 10:05, RostokMcSpoons said:

The typical "4 BB fall-out" pisses me off!  I do most of my test firing in the lounge out to the garden, and inevitably manage to drop a couple of BBs on to the hardwood floor, then spend time chasing them around under the furniture etc.

 

If Maxx hop units stop that, I'd be inclined to buy 'em - please tell me more!

 

 

They've improved the latch on the bottom of them with the M4A-PRO, it's a different design, and even trying a John Wick style mag change it's retaining 4x BB's in the hop unit for me with no problems 😃

[Adolf Hamster]

Plus with the retention on the maxx thats 4 rounds you can fire with no mag in.

 

Pain to clear, but occasionally useful in the field

[Lozart]

40 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

Plus with the retention on the maxx thats 4 rounds you can fire with no mag in.

 

Pain to clear, but occasionally useful in the field

 

There's only one that will fire unless you turn the gun upside down. Once the mag is out there's no spring pressure to feed BBs into the hop unit.

 

On 06/09/2022 at 10:05, RostokMcSpoons said:

The typical "4 BB fall-out" pisses me off!  I do most of my test firing in the lounge out to the garden, and inevitably manage to drop a couple of BBs on to the hardwood floor, then spend time chasing them around under the furniture etc.

 

If Maxx hop units stop that, I'd be inclined to buy 'em - please tell me more!

 

 

To be fair, much (almost all?) of that noise that I've heard/seen is from Luke at Neg Airsoft loudly dissing them and bigging up the ZCI hops.  That usually carries some weight...?

 

Originally they all had a BB latch, they now do two versions - Sport and Pro. The Sport (on the right) has no latch so it behaves like a normal hop unit, the Pro has the latch on the bottom of the feed tube to stop BBs falling out. To clear the gun properly you just poke your finger up the magwell to release it.

 

 

 

On 06/09/2022 at 11:16, Badgerlicious said:

Mags with followers prevent this, and if I don't have that I have a bin or a box nearby to open my gun over. 

 

The internal tracer unit is nice, and the only reason to get one imo. 

 

Mags with followers won't feed the very last round unless they're the ones with the ridiculously long follower that sticks right out the top of the mag and they have their own issues.

 

To be fair, I'm not so tight that loosing a couple of BBs bothers me it's just a nice to have.

The tracer function is good but depending on which version you get it might stop you using a MOSFET. The earlier models are powered from the balance lead on your battery, the later ones have connections to the motor terminals and that screws up the fancier mosfets like Titans etc.

 

Luke at Negative Airsoft is running a business and needs reliable parts that work predictably. The Maxx units can be finicky to fit (some receivers just won't work with them but they are expanding their range to allow for more fitments) and some QA issues on the redesigned ones (when they started coming in gold instead of red) means that they have gotten a reputation for being inconsistent. Pretty sure those issues have been addressed now. They ARE expensive for what they are ie a hop unit, when something like a plastic ZCI rotary can do the job just as well in most cases. However, you are paying for the adaptability and wider range of function that the Maxx offers, even if you don't need that function yourself. They come with two different arms (one for standard hop nubs, one for flat/r-hop, two different length flat/r-hop concave nubs (both of which effectively give you TDC hop adjustment) and all the retaining and positioning springs you could hope for.

 

Like all things airsoft, it's only as good as the rest of the gun and the person installing it getting it right. I have no doubt that Luke could fit them if he wanted to but when he can get a box full of ZCI plastic ones for less money and they do a perfectly good job for most builds, why would he?

 

They're NOT the answer to everything, they're NOT a guarantee of increased performance and they probably won't help you get laid. As a company they have a pretty decent reputation in the RC car world and are clearly happy to keep trying to innovate. Their triggers work well with Gate mosfets too so that's a plus point for me and Airtech have a range of parts to tweak and improve them if you're into that kind of thing.

On 06/09/2022 at 11:32, BigBell1987 said:

 

Enjoy his videos, curious what people's thoughts are on him and his knowledge, comes across as no bullshit, simple upgrades mostly stock just choose a good system in the first place which appeals to me being new to the game but that lack of experience also means one knows not who to trust. He openly admits that many people dispute him but that just makes me trust him more. I'll go start a thread on this save steering the topic away, thinking out loud right now, apologies.

 

Luke is a top bloke, got to know him from the days of playing at The Mall when he used to be the shop tech for A2 Supplies (before they moved to Reading). His views on a lot of the "latest thing" type upgrades etc are generally based on a LOT of experience over a long time of airsoft guns and a quite frankly VAST collection (go take a look at his gun room videos on his YT channel). He can definitely rub people up the wrong way because he's happy to tell them they're wrong. We've recently had a bit of a disagreement about why he can never get an airbrush to work for more than 5 minutes. He says it's because they're all the same and crap, I say it's just him but there you go. You could do a LOT worse than paying him to fix/mod/upgrade your gun for you.

[Adolf Hamster]

40 minutes ago, Lozart said:

There's only one that will fire unless you turn the gun upside down. Once the mag is out there's no spring pressure to feed BBs into the hop unit.

 

The clamp type? The one i was running had no trouble clearing rounds with the mag out and gun right side up.