UK POST - AI500, Operation Flashpoint, 1st & 2nd October 2022

[Dalerj94]

28 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

I disagree. Some people are just fucking stupid. It wouldn't surprise me if someone did it with the intention of setting the sprinklers off. Also if your kit is going to be destroyed by a bit of water then you should probably get better kit (not that it means such behaviour isnt twatish) 

 

But the discussion is about using a rif with a muzzle energy within site limits. Saying a rif can't be used just because it's got a magnifying optic, regardless of the muzzle energy shows the organisers are either incompetent or just can't be arsed. This combined with the way the rules differ between what's on faceache and the website and the way they keep changing don't give me confidence that they won't fuck it up again

AEGs/solenoid HPA guns aren't totally waterproof, but merely water resistant at most, same with the average Nuprol cases people use. You can't drown any electronically powered RIF that has the battery plugged in with in the amount of water that commercial sprinklers will let off and expect it to work thereafter, it'd be the equivalent of if you dropped it into a deep puddle and left it submerged with the battery plugged in and then pulled it out after 10mins expecting it to be fine with no shorts in the system. It's not like a rainy skirmish day when sprinklers go off pouring out hundreds of litres a minute where you just wipe down your RIF at the end of the day - and doesn't talk about things like radios, PTTs etc as not everyone can afford milspec gear from JCI as an example. I personally run mechanical as my primary is powered by a P* Kythera, and my MAX case is rated upto 1m submersion mind you - it was more overarching than that as your average joes run mostly Chinese gear that won't stand upto it.

 

But I digress, to put it simply, insulting people's levels of kit doesn't actually justify any argument. Stupid as some may be, irresponsibility is an entirely different thing, you're essentially just saying any players anywhere ever are liable to accidentally damage your equipment and behave like fools which if so is an airsoft thing as a whole - you can't stigmatise it to one particular event as if to say the airsofters like me and my team and the guys we run with who play there don't actually play elsewhere and don't believe in the honour of the game. You get fuckwits everywhere, you can't blame AI for that and expect it not to come off as bias against them.

 

And at no point have the rules stated you can't bring a DMR, just lower the power to that of ARs/SMGs/pistols as it's mostly close quarters engagements with the amount of people at the event, which is fair enough as nobody wants to get blasted by a heavier weight bb at that power that close - same reason MED is in place at outdoor sites. Rules state that in both places. Bolties and DMRs also ran at the last event in April fine, a few of my teammates run Mancraft powered DMRs and bolties, just reduce the power and you're fine. Our lads never got picked on or moaned at once by anyone. They were spot checking players on chrono at the last citadel quite stringently (Airsoft Plantation in Billericay does the same, never once had an issue there myself with players shooting hot, it's a game of honour), and although I never saw or experienced it I did hear via grapevine that a handful of players who were shooting over between both teams got sent home early on day 1 (again, this can and does happen anywhere). FB is real time updates in the social media age so not sure why it's an issue exactly; I mean, the website lags behind and should be updated sooner, we'll agree on that of course, but in reality it does seem a bit like picking hairs just to have something to pick on.

 

Again, if players abuse that system, they'll do it anywhere, it's not event specific- there's always the caveat that prevention methods may need to be stepped up and up and up, but based on the last event in particular they were on top of it and the only people who I've seen moan anywhere online were the greens who lost because they didn't like getting pushed back to their spawn, and despite literally getting dropped off by event organisers at the tan CP en-masse, still got pushed back again. I personally had a bit of a what's going on moment on finding and disarming a bomb that had been planted in a building we had already disarmed the prior day, where AI gave them another chance to rack up some more point. Not to mention the extra mortar strikes both days they got.

Play better and don't blame the site is my retort.

 

As I said above, I've had no negative engagements on a whole at any events run by them - shit happens, it's airsoft, can and does happen everywhere all of the time because of the human element within airsoft both on organiser and player levels - so can only go off of my own experience and that of the immediate people around me who have shared that experience with me directly. I'm looking forward to the event, it looks to be good, and based on my previous experience will be a lot of fun. Airsoft is what us as players make of it, sites and organisers are just catalysts to making it happen.

[Impulse]

16 minutes ago, Dalerj94 said:

And at no point have the rules stated you can't bring a DMR, just lower the power to that of ARs/SMGs/pistols as it's mostly close quarters engagements with the amount of people at the event, which is fair enough as nobody wants to get blasted by a heavier weight bb at that power that close - same reason MED is in place at outdoor sites. Rules state that in both places.

 

We all agree that you can bring DMRs and me being a weirdo wishes I could bring a bolt action at 1.1J. What we're saying is that what constitutes a DMR varies from person to person and DMRs are needlessly limited vs regular non-DMR rifles. Having half the ammo per life and being unable to use them inside the shops just makes them pointless vs bringing a regular rifle.

 

In my opinion they should allow all types of guns and just limit them to 1.1J and no full-auto. As long as your gun fits that, you should be allowed to use it, support guns and bolt actions included.

[Rogerborg]

54 minutes ago, Impulse said:

The .28 BB weight limit

 

Which will be enforced even less than muzzle energy.

 

 

50 minutes ago, Dalerj94 said:

And at no point have the rules stated you can't bring a DMR

 

And nobody here has said that.  We're baffled by why some toy guns are being arbitrarily restricted in ammo and usage based purely on their external appearance.

 

 

52 minutes ago, Dalerj94 said:

FB is real time updates in the social media age so not sure why it's an issue exactly

 

What's changed once is likely to change again.  Not that it matters much at the end of the day, it just winds me up because I like to play strictly by the letter and spirit of any rules, but it's impossibru to do that if they keep changing.  And one of my least favourite parts is being howled at by a marshal because they didn't read the last-second update, or - as I'm sure we've all experienced - didn't even listen to the safety or game brief.

 

 

56 minutes ago, Dalerj94 said:

Airsoft is what us as players make of it, sites and organisers are just catalysts to making it happen.

 

Now, here, I 100% agree.

 

However.

 

It's less work to get things right than to get them wrong.  When organisers still choose to make it up as they go along, and hope for the best, they deserve to be admonished for it.

 

Make shaming great again.

 

 

 

 

 

[Cannonfodder]

There was a dvd released years ago (called airsoft guide iirc) where an aeg and gbb were tested to see how much water they could take. Both were able to be left submerged in a fish tank and were able to fire just fine (although the water resistance meant the muzzle energy was very low). As for other kit, even the cheapest Chinese made webbing or BDUs should be able to cope with a soaking so if it falls apart after that then, yes you do need better kit. 

 

I agree that you get idiots everywhere, but certain events tend to attract certain types of players and it's down to the organisers to act when the idiots play up. AI seam to have trouble doing this. 

 

As for the retort of "play better" that's not so easy when the teams are so unevenly stacked that one side is unable to move. Once again this is down to the organisers to sort out.

 

The website and fb page giving different info could easily cause confusion as not everyone is on facebook, or follow airsoft pages and so could easily miss something which is updated on one but not the other

 

As you posted, you can only go off your experience, but likewise I can only go off mine and wasn't great

[Rogerborg]

3 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

certain events tend to attract certain types of players

 

And "holiday rules" apply when it's not your local site, and especially if you've dropped £100 on the experience and feel a sense of entitlement to enjoy yourself any way you fancy.

 

My rule of thumb is that 5% of any subsection of humanity will be absolute throbbers.  I reckon 380 people at this event won't really need telling how to behave, and 20 won't listen.  It all comes down to enforcement on the day.  Gets back to my other hobby horse about door staff having the ideal skill set for marshalling.

 

 

1 hour ago, Dalerj94 said:

I did hear via grapevine that a handful of players who were shooting over between both teams got sent home early on day 1

 

Now this is actually heartening to hear.  I don't want anybody to have to be kicked off site, but the sooner it happens to the 5%, the better it is for everyone else.

[Cannonfodder]

That 5% is like a cancer and will grow as others (not all, but some) see people cheating and getting away with it, and decide "if they can do it so can I" 

[Skullchewer]

Hearing that it's a train wreck.

I'm so shocked.....

[Rogerborg]

14 hours ago, Skullchewer said:

I'm so shocked.....

 

[Groot]

I heard is was a shit show too.. Trying to find some details on how SHIT the SHOW was ... 

My face this morning when confirmed...

[lokkers]

We enjoyed both Citadel events, but then we're local to it so was minimal effort to get to.

 

From what I'm reading on the tan FB page this weekend, I'm glad we missed this one. Doing a 500 mile round trip, paying £100 for the game plus hotels & food for the weekend is a lot for what sounds like a shitshow.

[Skullchewer]

Allegedly they told people at the morning brief that they're not allowed to post negative feedback on social media.

I take that with a shovel of salt, but if it's true that's HILARIOUS.

[Cannonfodder]

14 minutes ago, Skullchewer said:

Allegedly they told people at the morning brief that they're not allowed to post negative feedback on social media.

I take that with a shovel of salt, but if it's true that's HILARIOUS.

If true I'd be posting as much negative feedback as I could. If they don't want bad feedback then maybe they should've listened to feedback from previous games and made improvements, but I suppose that would involve a bit of effort 

[Skullchewer]

4 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

If true I'd be posting as much negative feedback as I could. If they don't want bad feedback then maybe they should've listened to feedback from previous games and made improvements, but I suppose that would involve a bit of effort 

 

[Tackle]

Despite the repeated shitshows taking place, 5 minutes after the bookings page for the latest AI500 went live.......... 

[Rogerborg]

51 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Despite the repeated shitshows taking place, 5 minutes after the bookings page for the latest AI500 went live.......... 

 

Some people will enjoy it despite the foul-ups, some will enjoy it because of them, and some men just want to watch the site burn.

[concretesnail]

Not being on social media I haven't heard the jist of what's going on, but having met some players on a game a few weeks ago who were going, i wouldn't be surprised if its turned into a shit show. I'm glad I resisted the temptation of the shopping centre and didn't book.

Edited October 2, 2022 by concretesnail

[Groot]

I got into one of the groups..

Basic Jist..... I want you to be honest on which of these complaints surprise you :

 

Bad Inept disorganised marshalling 
Inconsistent rule usage ( one was single firing too fast ) FULL SEMI AUTO!

Weak choroing for both power and BB weight
Overkill ( HPA was mentioned multiple times ) 

Too many players for a small site
To few marshals for too many players

Thefts of kit
AND ..... Non hit taking / obvious cheating 

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Groot

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Groot said:

Thefts of kit

 

Ouch. Not surprised, but I'm always disappointed by it.  It's down to the thieving scum, not the site though - there's just no way for them to stop Bob walking off with Alice's gat.

[Skullchewer]

1 hour ago, Groot said:

I want you to be honest on which of these complaints surprise you :

 

 

I'll take "none of the above" for 500 points' please Bob!

[Mels]

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Mels

[Rogerborg]

4 hours ago, Mels said:

[Wall-o-text]

 

Player: "Hey, a lot of people aren't following the rules."

 

Organiser: "STFU noob read rules."

 

Player: "But.. I did, that's why I'm..."

 

Organiser: "REED RULZE PLZ"

 

Galaxy brain handling right there.

 

Oh, and "cheat calling is mandatory" is the plot twist that nobody saw coming.

[Cannonfodder]

It's all well and good reading the rules till they change them, whether it's done officially or one doing it on their own accord. 

[Rogerborg]

53 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

It's all well and good reading the rules till they change them, whether it's done officially or one doing it on their own accord. 

 

Yup.  There's no way that a mid-game / weekend rule change is going to be propagated clearly to 400+ players.  I'd be astonished if it even made it to all the marshals.

 

 

[Skullchewer]

"If you marshalling yourselves then the game will run so much better"

 

See lads, you don't need marshalls.

[Rogerborg]

13 hours ago, Skullchewer said:

"If you marshalling yourselves then the game will run so much better"

 

Another way of reading that is "We are unable to provide the service that you paid for, please claim a refund."