What do you consider a fair price for a skirmish

[wicksy101]

Title says it all. 
 

Some of the best sites I have played at were 25 including lunch, others 40 with no lunch. 
 

I'm not talking about anything special, just your average woodland site. 
 

im finding I can easily spend £70 on a skirmish day after lunch and BBs. Kinda seems a bit excessive…

[BigStew]

Hence why Airsoft will neve become big. At most Skirmishes what most of your fees are going on is land rent ( I see you play Z-mart I don't even want to guess what they are paying rent for a site in the south of England) and business rates and don't make enough to pay a staff instead has volunteers doing it for free game and petrol money. if sites were to provide everything players wanted green fees would easily push £100+. how much is a Sports club membership, or a season ticket. Hell I payed close to £100 to see muse last time they toured (was it good valve no! was it a fantastic gig yes would i do it again? yes) Airsoft is a niche hobby that is expense you either accept that or find something else to do. Most sites are hanging on by a thread, numbers drop they're done, wood price goes up the site gets cleared, gentrifications comes to town the site gets levelled.  

Edited March 13, 2022 by BigStew

[colinjallen]

A fair price?  That is quite hard to answer as it depends on what I am hoping for and what I am getting.

Today I paid £25 for a well run day on an interestingly varied bit of land, with good games and an excellent safe zone.  I used about 1500 BBs (half a bottle) and spent £5 on lunch and drinks; add on travel costs and it came to about £44, which I consider pretty good value for a day's fun.

At another site I play at, this goes up to about £65, which still seems pretty good value; £40 of that is the entry fee.

I am wondering what you do to get it up to £70 on a typical day.

[EDcase]

I don't think you can count sundries on a game day as that depends on how individuals play.

Travel expenses can't really be compared either.

 

But regarding entry fees...

At sites I know, Red Alert in Bucklebury is the best value at £27.50 (used to be £25) including lunch (just a pizza tho I think)

The other site I frequent is Skirmish Wycombe at £30 including lunch (good food) is fair too.

 

I try to bring sundries such as BB's, gas, snacks and water so I don't spend so much there but I'll usually buy a few extra drinks if needed.

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by EDcase

[wicksy101]

I probably could have worded this much better if I'm honest....

 

45 minutes ago, colinjallen said:

A fair price?  That is quite hard to answer as it depends on what I am hoping for and what I am getting.

Today I paid £25 for a well run day on an interestingly varied bit of land, with good games and an excellent safe zone.  I used about 1500 BBs (half a bottle) and spent £5 on lunch and drinks; add on travel costs and it came to about £44, which I consider pretty good value for a day's fun.

At another site I play at, this goes up to about £65, which still seems pretty good value; £40 of that is the entry fee.

I am wondering what you do to get it up to £70 on a typical day.

I think this is what I'm trying to get at. What do you all think good value is?

 

In terms of today, £30 entry, £20 on single bottle of 32's plus just over £12 for lunch and two drinks.

[Emergencychimps]

I've done a mix of weekend events ( normally around £100 a time with no food included) and skirmishes. 

 

Most skirmishes locally tend to be £25 without food. But I have paid up to £35. I personally prefer sites that don't include food but do provide is on site at extra expense, its then my choice to buy or not. If they do good food at reasonable prices people will buy, bad food or too expensive and people will take pack ups. 

 

Honestly, to me what is value is very much site depending. I'd find it hard to pay more than £30 for a basic woodland site but I'd be happy to pay £45 for day sessions if the site is special, such as a mall, the fire college, prison, mod site (stirling games at places like catterick are effectively 2, if not 3 standard skirmish days due to hours played, so £100 ish is cheap). 

 

What I find more frustrating is inconsistency in organisers. My local site seems to get great reports one week and then I go and it's awful (maybe it's me?!) etc. I find the fact I've wasted one of my few free days far worse than the cost. 

 

If I could guarantee an organiser would provide a good to great day then I'd be willing to pay more, possibly double the above mentioned prices, but it seems that doesn't exist. 

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

Around £30 is fine.   I bought a few stones of cheap Kilo 9s before Brexit and always take food and drink from home.  Diesel costs I ignore as when you live this deep in the country you pay to go anywhere. 

 

A milsim or themed game is probably £40/50 a day, but they are few and far between and take months of planning.   The enjoyment of playing these is huge, so bollox to the cost.   

 

If you want a cheaper pew outing try HFT.  £5ish green fee and £1 worth of pellets a day.  

 

 

[Rogerborg]

I'm surprised that airsoft remains so cheap.  My two regular sites are £26.50 outdoors and just £25 for a full day of indoors.  Neither do "free" food, but I'm fine with not having the price of a tepid hot dog costed in.  The Depot 2.0 is now up to £36 a day, which is when I start to question the value for a site still under development. Although I'd be amazed if their income comes close to paying the rates on the building - I'd assume they're doing some sort of "sports charity" wheeze again.

 

As just noted elsewhere, I reckon the real rate of inflation is running at well above the headline 4.9% CPI, given the hundreds of billions of new fiat that we've shaken from the magic money tree.  That necessarily reduces the value of what's in our pockets.  It's amazing that prices haven't risen further and faster.

 

On that, if you're waiting for RIF and consumable prices to come down before buying, I wouldn't.  Money printing and now sharp rises in fuel and energy are only going to drive prices higher.

 

 

14 hours ago, EDcase said:

I don't think you can count sundries on a game day as that depends on how individuals play.

Travel expenses can't really be compared either.

 

True, not when comparing site vs site.  However, when comparing playing versus watching Netlix, it's a real consideration.  At 50 to 70 mile round trips to the nearest sites now, I can't ignore the costs of fuel any more.

 

Of course, this is all in the context of a hobby where we think £100 for a toy is bargain-basement.  I'm sure many of us could find a season's play just by thinning our collections a bit.

 

I've got RIFs in baskets at two retailers, but in both cases I've hovered over the buy button and thought "Wouldn't you rather spend that money on playing instead?"

[EDcase]

16 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

True, not when comparing site vs site.  However, when comparing playing versus watching Netlix, it's a real consideration.  At 50 to 70 mile round trips to the nearest sites now, I can't ignore the costs of fuel any more.

 

Of course, this is all in the context of a hobby where we think £100 for a toy is bargain-basement.  I'm sure many of us could find a season's play just by thinning our collections a bit.

Oh yes definitely, if considering the cost of airsofting as a hobby these expenses do add up, especially now with the cost of fuel.

Hopefully fuel price will come down a bit when things settle down.  (Crude oil price has come down a bit since the peak but I haven't seen if they've reduced at the pump)

 

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by EDcase

[MAX DICKER]

I've played sites for £20 and had a bad time, and played sites for £35 - £40 and had an outstanding time.

The opposite is also true.

Every time you pay your fee to play you're rolling the dice. There are so many variables as to what will make your day good value for your money; site size, development, layout, rules, marshaling, weather etc....

But frankly, the thing I feel makes or breaks ANY game day, no matter the site, are the players.

All it takes is a few dickheads to flip a day and make me regret handing over my hard earned cash.

[JinxDuh]

Cries in milsim costs

 

I normally pay £25 for woodland skirmishes, which to me is reasonable.

 

I think the deciding factor for me though, is how the day itself goes. If it's a bad day then naturally you're going to feel that the cost is unjust for the most part.

[Khyber]

At my sites... District 23 is £18 for walk on and £28 for walk on plus rental. Rental for a 10er is outstanding when I see people on here quote much higher prices at their local sites.

 

And my other site 101 Scarborough is £25 walk on with or without rental. Cant argue at that either.

 

These are both indoor CQB sites, D23 is a more 'professional' endeavor and 101 is a guy who has rented a derelict care home so the locals have somewhere to play. Much more of a intimate player base of locals and run much less restricted. Like a you don't be a dick and I won't be a dick attitude from the owner. Which is great if everyone plays well and fair. 

 

All in all I think they are both great value for the quality of the sites plus how well run they both are and the variety of play.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Khyber

[Rogerborg]

5 hours ago, Khyber said:

District 23 is £18 for walk on and £28 for walk on plus rental

 

Wow, that really is good value.  Does the £28 include BBs?  If so, the gun rental is close to being free.

[MAX DICKER]

12 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Wow, that really is good value.  Does the £28 include BBs?  If so, the gun rental is close to being free.

Your first 100 bb's are free, then £6.99 per 100 after that

[Skara]

To be fair, guys, you could adopt the model we use over here:

 

We don't have sites you can play at, we instead have clubs with a yearly subscription fee to cover insurance and get some money to buy/build/rent stuff (varies from club to club, in mine it's €70 for example), you get a permit to play on a piece of land and essentially you're done.

 

Of course you won't have the numbers you're used to, you will lose some facilities like toilets and food, but overall it'll be much, much easier to sustain than dishing out a decent dinner every time you want to go out and shoot your mates in the ass from a bush.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Skara

[BigStew]

36 minutes ago, Skara said:

To be fair, guys, you could adopt the model we use over here:

 

We don't have sites you can play at, we instead have club's with a yearly subscription fee to cover insurance and get some money to buy/build/rent stuff (varies from club to club, in mine it's €70 for example), you get a permit to play on a piece of land and essentially you're done.

 

Of course you won't have the numbers you're used to, you will lose some facilities like toilets and food, but overall it'll be much, much easier to sustain than dishing out a decent dinner every time you want to go out and shoot your mates in the ass from a bush.

you could do that over here but has a lot legal requirements to fulfil. you must either have massive numbers or land and insurance is dirt cheap. no site in the UK could function on that little per year most sites relie on hires to to cover costs and probably have less than 60 regulars  at £70 that's only £4200 a year that wouldn't even be able to rent enough land to put a portapotty on. even if that was a £70 a month thats still nowhere near enough.

Edited March 14, 2022 by BigStew

[Khyber]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Wow, that really is good value.  Does the £28 include BBs?  If so, the gun rental is close to being free.

It includes 3 hi cap fills at around 330 each (only given 1 mag at a time, you have to go back to recepton to refill) So close to 1000 BBs and extra refills are available at £3 each. So yeah damn good value.

[Tackle]

1 hour ago, MAX DICKER said:

Your first 100 bb's are free, then £6.99 per 100 after that

LOL, I'd be like "OY MATE, IF I SHOOT YOU, YOU GOTTA TAKE IT, I'M NOT DOING DOUBLE TAPS, NOT AT THESE PRICES" 🤣

'kin ell, that's more than 20 quid to fill a hi cap, madness😳

 

EDIT @MAX DICKER yer git, I thought you were serious. Doh 

[Emergencychimps]

To be honest, I think a days entertainment for £25-£30 is amazingly cheap. I don't think there are many activities that are more than sitting on your arse in your own home(Netflix and gaming) that has such a low per hour cost. The rest of the costs (guns, ammo, food, pyro, kit) are up to the player and can be done incredibly cheaply or incredibly expensively, so looking for ways to reduce this further is feasible in the UK.

 

If anything I'd encourage going the other way, charge me more but have paid Marshalls. It's hard to get volunteers to run a site as well as people who are getting paid for it. That's why a lot of sites are based around the one or 2 people who make the cash from it. If they aren't there or they're having an off day the whole site goes down hill. 

 

A local site to me has peaks and troughs and it's entirely based around the site managers (not the owners). When they change so does the quality of the site, the games run, the way the briefing is given, the attitude to the whole day/weekend etc. When it's bad it's pretty hard to moan cause they're doing their best and they are just volunteering. 

[MAX DICKER]

10 minutes ago, Tackle said:

LOL, I'd be like "OY MATE, IF I SHOOT YOU, YOU GOTTA TAKE IT, I'M NOT DOING DOUBLE TAPS, NOT AT THESE PRICES" 🤣

'kin ell, that's more than 20 quid to fill a hi cap, madness😳

 

EDIT @MAX DICKER yer git, I thought you were serious. Doh 

Oops my bad, I was thinking of a different recreational toy gun based hobby 😄

[Tommikka]

6 minutes ago, MAX DICKER said:

Oops my bad, I was thinking of a different recreational toy gun based hobby 😄

I recognised the price structure ….. but to be fair that is a rental price structure intended for the occasional day out,

as opposed to an own gunner who would ideally be paying a slightly higher green fee and buying their balls by the case load.  
 

Such as £25 entry and options of BYO or a case of 2000 for £30 of good fresh balls - (approx £55 for a day out) as opposed to basic rentals with free or cheap entry plus a rolling price structure against various quantities of basic quantity balls. (If planned ahead probably £50/£60 for a day out with half as many balls but slower shooting or around £100+ without researching the price structure or going in with fat wallets)

Each type of player would expect to be separated to different dates or different areas of the site - and expect staff to be paid rather than volunteers / player Marshall’s 

 

In airsoft the situation may vary between sites but it appears that the trend is for regulars to be mixed among rentals unless it’s a large group / exclusive booking, and as noted in the thread isn’t very viable in contrast to the overheads of running a site

In paintball the sites exist due to the primary business of public rental paintball and then add walkons with other pricing for encouraging repeat custom from own gunners as they get more serious 

 

I equate airsoft to a cross between walkon & scenario paintball, and to be viable sites need a good turnover of players to cover the costs of the site,

staff etc 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rogerborg]

3 hours ago, Skara said:

we instead have club's with a yearly subscription fee to cover insurance and get some money to buy/build/rent stuff (varies from club to club, in mine it's €70 for example), you get a permit to play on a piece of land and essentially you're done

 

It's an interesting model, but I can't see it working in the UK.  We're a cramped, crowded island with few areas of secure, isolated land that aren't in regular use, or subject to having public randos rambling onto them.  Sites here sadly tend to get kicked off the land as soon as the landowner finds any other way of making money from it.

 

Even if you could find a bit of land that's unused on a given weekend, landowners might not want to have it covered in plastic, or take on any vicarious liability.

 

Indemnity for players might be do-able, Shooters Rights or similar could cover it.  I say "could" because their underwriter will be set up to cover people shooting at things or beasties, rather than at other people who are shooting back.  Still, it'll be fine on paper until it's not.

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

1 hour ago, Emergencychimps said:

To be honest, I think a days entertainment for £25-£30 is amazingly cheap. I don't think there are many activities that are more than sitting on your arse in your own home(Netflix and gaming) that has such a low per hour cost. The rest of the costs (guns, ammo, food, pyro, kit) are up to the player and can be done incredibly cheaply or incredibly expensively, so looking for ways to reduce this further is feasible in the UK.

The S&T SMLE isn't cheap, but 100 budget .303 cartridges are £77 through a real one.  

 

A round of clays is 35p per clay and £6 a box of 25 budget cartridges. 

 

Shooting is never really cheap.  You are literally buying things to fling them all over the countryside.  

 

Airsoft is not bad value IMHO.  

 

To be candid... I worked out in an idle moment just how much beer I bought when I was seriously into snooker.  Two nights practicing and one nights competition was a minimum of 12 pints per week, plus table hire, taxis, nerve soothing fags, post-pub pizzas and the odd victory party to 2am.  

 

Life in the UK is rarely cheap, especially leisure.   Glad to be able to knacker myself out for so little tbh.   

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

3 hours ago, Skara said:

To be fair, guys, you could adopt the model we use over here:

 

We don't have sites you can play at, we instead have club's with a yearly subscription fee to cover insurance and get some money to buy/build/rent stuff (varies from club to club, in mine it's €70 for example), you get a permit to play on a piece of land and essentially you're done.

 

Of course you won't have the numbers you're used to, you will lose some facilities like toilets and food, but overall it'll be much, much easier to sustain than dishing out a decent dinner every time you want to go out and shoot your mates in the ass from a bush.

You always make it sound really shit though. I don't mean that in a disparaging way but you have so many tales about having to corral people to even play a game, to ban certain people from clubs, and so on.

 

It's probably due to survivorship bias because the games/times where it works really well, you probably don't have a reason to talk about here!

Edited March 14, 2022 by DrAlexanderTobacco

[BigStew]

11 minutes ago, DrAlexanderTobacco said:

You always make it sound really shit though. I don't mean that in a disparaging way but you have so many tales about having to corral people to even play a game, to ban certain people from clubs, and so on.

 

It's probably due to survivorship bias because the games/times where it works really well, you probably don't have a reason to talk about here!

different mentalities. As I said clubs are a legal ball ache over here. You have to the register club as business or charity then you have to have several positions that are elected such as president, Club secretary, treasurer and there has to be regular elections. The owner/operator model works relatively well over here. the site lives or dies on the owners ability to manage. I have seen a couple of sites ruined by Teams that had enough members to make serious dents in income of sites manipulate that fact to get the site to bend to play the way they want ignore game rules/ hit taking and basically ruin it for anyone not on the team. In  a club system I could see a team with big enough numbers could take over a club a ruin it.