Hicks signed pulse rifle

[steviec666]

Still not sure if I would ever part with this but I'm curious on valuation. Base is standard snow wolf pulse rifle un skirmishes. And signed by Michael biehn when at London comic con a few years ago 

[EDcase]

Nice! ?

But no idea on value.

 

Look up any other memorabilia signed by him and then add the cost of the rifle to that...?

[concretesnail]

Can't help on value though I think it's great and an awesome wall hanger.

[Emergencychimps]

No idea on a suitable price for this but definitely better to sell it somewhere an aliens collector would see it rather than just airsofters. 

 

This is pretty unique. 

[RostokMcSpoons]

Yeah really it depends on whether you've got a tight bore barrel on there.  Have you upgraded the hop unit and bucking?

What sort of rate of fire is it getting, I would have to factor in the price of a new motor probably.

 

And definitely need to buy a couple of cans of paint, looks like someone has scribbled on it, needs a touch-up

 

£100 all in?

 

 

???   that's a really cool thing, hope you get a good price

 

 

[Asomodai]

12 hours ago, steviec666 said:

Still not sure if I would ever part with this but I'm curious on valuation. Base is standard snow wolf pulse rifle un skirmishes. And signed by Michael biehn when at London comic con a few years ago 

 

You would get more luck on Cosplay boards. 

[BigStew]

10 hours ago, Asomodai said:

 

You would get more luck on Cosplay boards. 

yes but op will come across less people they can legally sell to. I am a colonial Marine cosplayer a few of my group have signed pulse rifles (personally don't go in for it) to be morbid this would be worth money if it was Bill Paxton rather than Michael Biehn . He charges £30/40ish for a signature and gun fire has pulse rifles for £184.00 so maybe get £200 for it. you might have luck selling it internationally you have the replica prop forum, the Aliens legacy forum   

[MAX DICKER]

Can you prove the provenance of the scribble? I work on the assumption that autographed memorabilia is fake unless otherwise proven.

[steviec666]

Well I was there when he did it lol and for 200 I would def keep it ?

[Tommikka]

9 hours ago, BigStew said:

yes but op will come across less people they can legally sell to.  

You’re surely not saying that cosplay is not a VCRA defence and that JustCos is a worthless fake scheme ???????!!!!!!!

[Rogerborg]

On 15/01/2022 at 23:17, BigStew said:

yes but op will come across less people they can legally sell to

 

(1) In sections 36 and 37 “realistic imitation firearm” means an imitation firearm which—

(a) has an appearance that is so realistic as to make it indistinguishable, for all practical purposes, from a real firearm;

 

“real firearm” means—

(a) a firearm of an actual make or model of modern firearm (whether existing or discontinued)

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/38

 

This is as distinct from the much broader Firearms Act definition of "imitation firearm".  Public possession may be an offence, but I can see no problem with selling these.

 

[BigStew]

8 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

(1) In sections 36 and 37 “realistic imitation firearm” means an imitation firearm which—

(a) has an appearance that is so realistic as to make it indistinguishable, for all practical purposes, from a real firearm;

 

“real firearm” means—

(a) a firearm of an actual make or model of modern firearm (whether existing or discontinued)

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/38

 

This is as distinct from the much broader Firearms Act definition of "imitation firearm".  Public possession may be an offence, but I can see no problem with selling these.

 

It is based on a real fire arm though. personally wouldn't want to risk it. Having been round the con scene for over a decade there are cosplayers with no sense what so ever. Regularly seen people traveling to/ leaving cons while openly carrying weapons out side the venue. Couple years back someone almost got themselves in a lot of trouble walking to the train station in full riot gear with a "blood smeared" shield and an SMG strapped to his leg. Con organisers caught up to him before anything went south but he never understood what he did wrong.

[Shamal]

Sounds like he was living the dream.

Could have been a nightmare though! ?

Regards 

[Rogerborg]

9 hours ago, BigStew said:

It is based on a real fire arm though.

 

Its appearance readily distinguishes it from that real firearm (the Thompson).  I can't fathom a situation where you'd actually be convicted under S36 for selling one, even if someone does go full Hudson with it.

 

This is in sharp contrast to S19 public possession, which I agree is a bigger, broader issue both for us and for wizards-and-hobbits types.

 

 

9 hours ago, BigStew said:

Having been round the con scene for over a decade there are cosplayers with no sense what so ever. Regularly seen people traveling to/ leaving cons while openly carrying weapons out side the venue.

 

Having skirted round the edges of that community, there does seem to be a high quotient of people who are desperate to be seen, but can't grasp how they're going to be perceived.

 

They will keep getting caught doing it... 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-45994558

 

... resulting in some some knee jerk reactions from cons, gating the problem once it's already arrived at their door ...

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/fake-guns-are-confiscated-londons-mcm-comic-con-n451386

 

Hmm. "While Britain’s 2003 Anti-Social Behaviour Act means most replicas of guns must be concealed when in a public place"

 

I've seen this repeated a few times, but it says no such thing, it only matters if you have it with you.  Of course you should conceal any IF or RIF so that it's less likely to be an issue, but if you are caught, you're going to need a reasonable excuse.

[BigStew]

15 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Its appearance readily distinguishes it from that real firearm (the Thompson).  I can't fathom a situation where you'd actually be convicted under S36 for selling one, even if someone does go full Hudson with it.

 

This is in sharp contrast to S19 public possession, which I agree is a bigger, broader issue both for us and for wizards-and-hobbits types.

 

 

 

Having skirted round the edges of that community, there does seem to be a high quotient of people who are desperate to be seen, but can't grasp how they're going to be perceived.

 

They will keep getting caught doing it... 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-45994558

 

... resulting in some some knee jerk reactions from cons, gating the problem once it's already arrived at their door ...

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/fake-guns-are-confiscated-londons-mcm-comic-con-n451386

 

Hmm. "While Britain’s 2003 Anti-Social Behaviour Act means most replicas of guns must be concealed when in a public place"

 

I've seen this repeated a few times, but it says no such thing, it only matters if you have it with you.  Of course you should conceal any IF or RIF so that it's less likely to be an issue, but if you are caught, you're going to need a reasonable excuse.

fat middle age man in plastic armour carrying a pulse rifle inside a con at least 3 adults (general public just bring their kids along) every con will ask am i in the army and is the gun real.

[Tommikka]

2 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

I

Having skirted round the edges of that community, there does seem to be a high quotient of people who are desperate to be seen, but can't grasp how they're going to be perceived.

 

They will keep getting caught doing it...

Cosplayers (or just human beings in general) have an inability to think about potential consequences 

 

No gun related items required for this one ……

 

 

A friend of mine opted for a Lazy Town themed costume 

 

 

 

…. And while dressed in her lovely pink Stephanie outfit on the train she noticed a little girl staring at her, so she smiled back

 

As the girl burst into tears, she remembered that she had not gone for a classic Lazy Town, but had added a little spin to customise the ensemble ….

 

 

 

 

[Rogerborg]

3 hours ago, BigStew said:

is the gun real

 

Which is why it falls foul of the Bus to Clapham Comicon definition of FA Section 19 / 57 (4).  IIRC, we had a bloke on here intending to open carry a Snow Wolf M41A on a bus because "not real gnu". ?‍♂️

 

But VCRA S36 is a different and narrow definition.  Parliament chose not to use the same broad definition, and they considered historical guns, so they could have considered future ones as well.  As careful as I am (now) to sail on the safe side of the law, inventing offences where they don't exist is doing Nanny State's job for her.

[BigStew]

12 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Which is why it falls foul of the Bus to Clapham Comicon definition of FA Section 19 / 57 (4).  IIRC, we had a bloke on here intending to open carry a Snow Wolf M41A on a bus because "not real gnu". ?‍♂️

 

But VCRA S36 is a different and narrow definition.  Parliament chose not to use the same broad definition, and they considered historical guns, so they could have considered future ones as well.  As careful as I am (now) to sail on the safe side of the law, inventing offences where they don't exist is doing Nanny State's job

 

15 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Its appearance readily distinguishes it from that real firearm (the Thompson).  I can't fathom a situation where you'd actually be convicted under S36 for selling one, even if someone does go full Hudson with it.

 

This is in sharp contrast to S19 public possession, which I agree is a bigger, broader issue both for us and for wizards-and-hobbits types.

 

 

 

Having skirted round the edges of that community, there does seem to be a high quotient of people who are desperate to be seen, but can't grasp how they're going to be perceived.

 

They will keep getting caught doing it... 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-45994558

 

... resulting in some some knee jerk reactions from cons, gating the problem once it's already arrived at their door ...

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/fake-guns-are-confiscated-londons-mcm-comic-con-n451386

 

Hmm. "While Britain’s 2003 Anti-Social Behaviour Act means most replicas of guns must be concealed when in a public place"

 

I've seen this repeated a few times, but it says no such thing, it only matters if you have it with you.  Of course you should conceal any IF or RIF so that it's less likely to be an issue, but if you are caught, you're going to need a reasonable excuse.

there were several live fire versions manufactured for the film( several live fire pulse rifles have been built buy American gunsmiths in the last few years). that goes for a lot of sci fi films and series. Does the replica have to be of a massed produced gun and if there is only one real fire arm does it not class as a RIF? That brings up the question does an Airsoft pistol carbine kit fitted with a pistol count as a RIF as there now a casing disguising it origin and therefore not based on a real fire arm?

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, BigStew said:

there were several live fire versions manufactured for the film( several live fire pulse rifles have been built buy American gunsmiths in the last few years). that goes for a lot of sci fi films and series. Does the replica have to be of a massed produced gun and if there is only one real fire arm does it not class as a RIF? That brings up the question does an Airsoft pistol carbine kit fitted with a pistol count as a RIF as there now a casing disguising it origin and therefore not based on a real fire arm?

 

That's... actually a very good point.  Hmm.

 

As a speculative interpretation (we'd need case law) I'd infer that "make or model" implies something that has been offered for trade to that degree of specificity.  Armat isn't a real make, and M41A isn't a real model.  And yet, there are versions out there that can shoot real bullets (but not 10mm light armour piercing caseless).

 

This is the Culper Precision (make) Block19 (model), a real Glock encased in Lego.  Discontinued, never offered for sale, but they did make one, with a model designation.

 

 

If I built just the Lego shell, would it be a realistic imitation of a real firearm?

[BigStew]

19 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

That's... actually a very good point.  Hmm.

 

As a speculative interpretation (we'd need case law) I'd infer that "make or model" implies something that has been offered for trade to that degree of specificity.  Armat isn't a real make, and M41A isn't a real model.  And yet, there are versions out there that can shoot real bullets (but not 10mm light armour piercing caseless).

 

This is the Culper Precision (make) Block19 (model), a real Glock encased in Lego.  Discontinued, never offered for sale, but they did make one, with a model designation.

 

 

If I built just the Lego shell, would it be a realistic imitation of a real firearm?

All we can do is pray nobody ever does something incredibly stupid and there is finally a test case as I think we will all be screwed. To Add calibre is clutching at straws there are multiple pistols that are made in several different calibres that you would need to know what you are looking at to tell if it's 45, 40, 10mm 9mm .22 and that's just 1911s

Edited January 18, 2022 by BigStew

[Tommikka]

Ultimately it comes down to if/when a case goes to court, the specifics of the case and how the lawyers approach convincing the court.

 

 

Ideally it never gets to court on a VCRA basis but in accordance with other offences (such as waving pistols around McDonalds) or the police use discretion 

(I’ve seen many cases of the police being involved and ending with ‘advice given, but no offence committed - whereas a whole raft of offences could be applied - they have used discretion eg magfed paintballers leaving a site with guns in car parcel shelves and parking in the services besides motorway police having a coffee & doughnut break)

 

’Realistic’ in the legislation is not absolute - there is ‘distinguishing from a real firearm’ which means if there isn’t a real counterpart then it’s not a RIF, but there is also ‘can only be distinguished by an expert’ so if anyone thinks it might be real then it is a RIF

The best there is for an ‘absolute’ is what construes an IF - that it is much too small, it is clear or it is predominantly one of the approved bright colours 

 

There are of course airsoft guns sold as IFs that have been coloured but not to the specified colours. Such as American training blue, which is not VCRA bright blue 

…. and where sales are concerned the potential offence lies with the seller.  So there are those who strictly stick to UKARA as airsoft and make some allowance for justifying other defences (museums, reenactment, theatrical …) there are also those who think it doesn’t apply to them or are just ignorant (eg claims that the VCRA doesn’t apply to gel ball guns) or a retailer that comes up with Cosplay insurance in partnership with a comicon that bans RIFs

 

 

We do our best, avoid encouraging chav law bending, but accommodating ‘genuine’ airsofters who may have difficulty getting UKARA or renewing under Covid, or are just in a panic because they bought a two tone but a RIF arrived 

 

There are a couple of arguments for RIFs being suitable in cosplay - for your average individual that’s a no, for the ‘professional’ celebrity cosplay as a comicon headliner the theatrical defence applies.  For a cosplay society then it could possibly be argued, maybe if it’s a WW2 dress up and you can qualify the society as historical reenactment (a better argument for a military vehicle club displaying at shows) not so easy for Aliens or Star Wars, but if the club is invited to a comicon or runs a stall and the members wander around displaying then it’s creeping towards theatrical 

[Rogerborg]

19 hours ago, Tommikka said:

there is ‘distinguishing from a real firearm’ which means if there isn’t a real counterpart then it’s not a RIF, but there is also ‘can only be distinguished by an expert’ so if anyone thinks it might be real then it is a RIF

 

The second clause is "an imitation firearm is not [...] to be regarded as distinguishable from a real firearm [...]".

 

"Real firearm" is still present, and still has the same definition of "a firearm of an actual make or model of modern firearm (whether existing or discontinued)".

 

Again, Parliament could have chosen to use the FA 1968 S57 definition of imitation firearm, "any thing which has the appearance of being a firearm".  They didn't, and that's significant.  I'm sure the copper at the sharp end won't know that, and quite likely not the CPS or Fiscal either, but any competent defence brief or UKAPU should be able to bring proceedings to a halt.

 

I'm so-so on whether or what forms of cosplay constitutes theatrical, and where the line would be drawn between performer and participant - are the Rocky Horror Show audience part of the performance?

 

What I would note is that if you're choosing to buy cosplay insurance rather than theatrical performer insurance, then you're rather making an argument against yourself.

[Tommikka]

3 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

 

 

Again, Parliament could have chosen to use the FA 1968 S57 definition of imitation firearm, "any thing which has the appearance of being a firearm".  They didn't, and that's significant.  

 

 

 

What I would note is that if you're choosing to buy cosplay insurance rather than theatrical performer insurance, then you're rather making an argument against yourself.

Smashed it in these two paragraphs 

4 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

.

 

I'm so-so on whether or what forms of cosplay constitutes theatrical, and where the line would be drawn between performer and participant - are the Rocky Horror Show audience part of the performance?

 

 

Awesome example

RHS at the Mayflower, Southampton = some enthusiastic cosplay audience participation 

Specific groups of LA theatres / cinemas = the celebrities of professional RHS participation 

LA tourists managing to get in on a midnight showing = an audience to the professional audience 

 

Want to be taken more seriously then a guy dressed in a corset & stockings, sign up to the RHS international fan club - does that make them a serious theatrical audience partici……..pation performer?

 

 

…… and when waterpistols get brought into the legislation I predict a fresh resurgence of RHS for people to earn their defence

[Tommikka]

And a co-operative retailers governing body, the UK water pistols association, complete with forum posters asking how they can get their UKWPA licence without staying up past midnight 3 times